PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Kiva on August 01, 2004, 04:36:56 am
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A thing I believe would be an excellent feature somewhere in the future would be that having natural gifts in smaller and bigger quantities. For example, at character creation, the server gives you 30 points of gifting that it randomly distributes into everything on your character. This could result in you being generally gifted in everything, or majorly gifted in say blacksmithing. There should be no possible way to tell what it is you\'re gifted at until you actually figure out what it is by trying diffrent things. If suddenly you realise you learn a skill twice as easy as other people, or you generally fight much better than others near your skill level, then you can easily figure what you\'re gifted at. You may not like it, but that\'s life. I never said anything about this being a fair thing.
You might be extremely gifted as a jeweller, but all you ever wanted to be is a baker. Great dilemma. Should you do what your heart wants, or what you do the best? :)
Pros / Cons
+ You can get a bonus at doing something.
+ Encourages people to try out diffrent professions before settling with something they believe to be \"teh l33t\".
- Might encourage people to continously re-create their characters to get a good bonus, thus increase server load.
* Some people will complain about it being \'unfair\' that he/she is better than they are, however... Think about it. Isn\'t it also unfair Ronaldo is good at soccer, and you are not? :)
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That is a great idea! I think that should be implemented in the game definately.
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i think is a very good idea!!, makes the game more realistic and interesting...
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i agree. it would be a cool thing to have and would help make it so that not everyone who is highly skilled in something can always easily beat someone at a lower skill level thus encouraging them to get better at that skill.
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Finally, something that hasn\'t been said 10^854 times ;)
I think this would be great because it would keep \"oldbie\" from becoming synonymous (sp?) with \"Uber Omnipotent fighter of Doom\". You could meet a really experienced player who could convince you that fighting wasn\'t everything you can do in the game :P
josePhoenix
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great idea! thats so clever! it makes the game more unique and realistic.
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I think it is a fantastic idea!
Unfortunately, she makes a point with the people continually creating characters, and the server load...
IF something like that was implemented in the game, I would be one of the people who WOULDN\'T abuse it :D
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I disagree in it being implemented as a end all thing, maybe you can have a choice, like on Character creation: ?Would you like the server to randomly generate your Characters Skills??
You should be able to choose these skills to match your Character?s history & background you want, or just be surprised if you want! I really want to be an Animal Trainer, If the server randomly choose me to be a cook I would not play that character much? But it would be a nice Idea for people who do not have time to customize there Character & I think everyone should @ least have one ?Mystery Character Who Got Amnesia? to try out all the professions & see what you get?
I see how this idea is more realistic then having a choice, but when you arrive in the game, you are about 25 Years Old or equivalent, that is you do not start out as a kid, so I think that by the time most people in real life know what they are good @ doing & have already started on that path. I see character customization of skills as more of a ?Background Story? thing then an advantages thing?
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i think hes not talking about taking away the custom creation, hes talking about giving bonus points(wich will not appear in the character status or anywere) people can try diferent jobs instead of desiding for blacksmith because he wants to be a warrior, and in that way the job system would be more active.....(because in other games with to many jobs, some of them are unpopular and they eventually decide to delete it)
and i think that moust people will think as some jobs as usseles, and they all will go for blacksmith, alquimist, herbalist and leather working and fishing, and all the others will be arround just the 10% of the players choice.....
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I believe Gronomist means point to distribute as you wish among your skills.
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And i beleive flippy seal that your literacy is at best useless the fact you can type is a miracle but lets not go there.
Firstly what grono is implying by that system is that you will have a level of aptitude with things that are not immplied by your stats. Just like in real life some people pick certain things up very quickly whilst other learn other things quickly So basically depending on how the game makes you play you could devote more time to getting good at what you want or try every thing to see what your best at.
This would be very intressting if it was implemented and not that hard to implement either however it is more work.
why i bother posting im not sure the noob\'s to the forum will just skip it and post a question thats allready awnsered or worse go completly off-topic. Which is a shame. I wish i could kill the noobs would give me great pleasure.
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I wish i could kill the noobs would give me great pleasure.
Is that a death threat?!
Immplied? Intressting? Awnsered?
How is someone who spells these words wrongly, in a position to EVEN call my literacy into question. Because I failed to comprehend Gronomist\'s post, does not mean you have the right you offend me. And remember, why would you use such a condescending tone and wording in your first, highly offensive sentence. You could have told me, in a polite, and discreet manner.
First of all, you have no right to offend me.
Secondly, you have no right to call any quality of mine into question! I mean, you don\'t even know me!
And lastly, it\'s that kind of attitude that won\'t get you down as a friend. I don\'t even know you, I\'ve never seen you post but already I think you\'re a complete jerk.
I now view you as a critical, hostile, condescending and offensive person. Now, there are a few things that can happen.
You COULD apologize, that would impress me greatly, but I highly doubt you will.
You could try to offend me again, trying to make something up, but I have raised valid points, and have already proven that my literacy IS there. And I believe it is evident now, that my ability to type is there as well.
I have not offended you, or anyone in this post. But I think, most likely that you shall not apologize, but continue this arguement.
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Sifight...what do u got against FlippySeal? You dont just go around pointing out every mistake a person makes. Dont comment about about other peoples literacy! Oh and if i somehow made a mistake in here then dont say anything! And also dont pick on noobs. Doesnt prove anything if you kill one.
But back to the topic... This is a great idea, although alot of people would be try to get the \"perfect\" character and keep trying to get the best stats.
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IMO it should be decided on your highest stat when your character is created (strength = blacksmith, miner etc)
Since my character is an archer and has always been known for his legendary accuracy with ranged weapons I would be a little annoyed if my characters gift was using axes. But then again there might be a knight who wants to make potions for a living
This idea helps roleplaying in some ways but not in others, maybe if it could be chosen?
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Thats a nice idea and i like it , but iam not sold ... yet as i Dont think it would work out real well. Granted it _may_ spread out the Jobs and improve role-play, but what of the countless NO. of noobs who will keep re-creating charaters just to make that Ub3R Pker or class that they want ???
And haveing a structure of Questions or back ground information which may give your certain stats will with out doubt be found out within a week and will just spoil the whole idea.
Instead of giveing extra stats why not have an Exp bonous which means you lvl up faster on that certain skill also hide it so that the player doesnt see the extra bonous so you Could be gifted in Beer drinking and not know it untill you\'ve tried it. So this means players who want to go into a specfic job class can still mass charaters to get their ub3r charater but thats unless they do alot of research.
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its a very nice idea but its true that people will just recreate and recreate
meebie we can just allow 1 or 2 characters per account and 1 account per person or something, or you could chose what you want to do like chose in char creation what you like to do and based on that, create your talents altough i would like it implented, so you can\'t know what your gifts are, but i think there will be alot of people abusing that to :p i will not be one of them tough :D
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It\'s not a bad idea, but I\'m not completely sure.... I dunno, just not totally convinced I guess, not a particularly good reason, but....
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if this would be implemented then i think the natural gifted ones shouldnt get a higher potential of the skill, but rather being much better in it when your new to it, thus learning it faster.
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If you wanted to keep it enforced, to prevent people from making massive #\'s of players, you\'d probably want to create a limit of two characters per acct., 1 acct. to an E-mail address, and only alow characters to be deleted after a certain amount of time, like a week or 5 days or something.
That would drive many players away though, as most DO want to fight, And this would make it VERY difficult to get your favorite weapon and would just get so frustrating that you just gave up after a while. Perhaps allowing the player to choose an Affinity to a certain weapon or skill, like....The person has just had a thing for bows ever since he was able to pick one up and use it. Since he likes bows he might get a slight penalty for things like Hand to hand combat, or for weaponsmithing, and mabye a bonus to fletching, or to their vision.Someone who had loved riding flying creatures since they were a small child might recieve a penalty towards heavier weapons and armors, as they would make flying more difficult on a creature, and also get a small bonus to archery, to attack off of the creature with. And so on. A personality bonus of sorts.
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I also don\'t know. The randomness just doesn\'t appeal to me, because you\'d most likely never end up with what you\'d like best (or think you\'d like best). Therefore, the advantage must be only tiny, making the whole thing rather pointless. I mean, after all, PS is a game and not RL, everybody can pick what they want unlike IRL, therefore this would be a breach of this commodity. I\'d prefer the idea of ZakTorokko instead, it would not vary very often but it would be more fair. I mean, hard work wouldn\'t be worth as much if you could just be better by chance. Would take out much fun, despite all realism. As I always say: realism needs to stop somewhere, because otherwise it\'s not fun anymore. If you want perfect realism, live, don\'t play games... :D
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Originally posted by Seytra
If you want perfect realism, live, don\'t play games... :D
I hate to disagree with someone who just agreed with me, but if you\'ve ever seen the reaction of the police when someone goes down the road in leather armor and a sword swinging it at a dog, you\'d prefer a game.
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Interesting idea, but I\'m not convinced. Many people have already decided what their characters are gifted in. I think it\'s part of role-playing, you should be able to decide that..
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Hmm, I want this but at the same time I don\'t.
I think it is a great idea and all. Really great but, I know what I want to be gifted at.
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Hah! im going to surprise you then flippy!
I will neither apologize and will not argue with you but allow me to make an amendment to what i said previously im tired of people not reading posts properly and replying just to up there post count ive been here a year and you have posted more than me in a month which mean either your spamming or coming close to it. I dont mean this post to be derogatory but its just im tired of seeing people ask for things allready asked for thousands of times with out checking i mean it gets frustrated when people either A) Dont read things. B) ask questions asked millions of times. C) spam
I didnt mean my post to be offensive to you but i guess you could say i was fed up. (that\'s as close as you will get to an apoligy from me be happy with it)
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Have the computer randomly select your strengths instead of taking your character creation points and distributing them yourself?
It\'s an interesting idea, but I don\'t think it\'d be particularly good for roleplay... For example I have my character, background, guild, fold, abilites, weaknesses, strengths, and \'profession\' planned out. It\'d be annoying if my gift was casting magic when my character has a strong aversion, distrust, and dislike of magic in general. Maybe as an option, to have the comp distribute them randomly if you choose.
[edit] Eh, I probably didn\'t properly understand what grono said. Course I don\'t get half of what she says most of the time anyhow :P Also didn\'t read past Gronos post...wich I should know better than to do. I see what you mean now that I looked back and read the entire thing, as I should have to begin with.
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See what i mean? thats exactly what im talking about none of you even got that what grono is trying to say i give up this is pathetic to even watch
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Sifright calm down man, so what he didn\'t have time to read through it all the first time he was here. And maybe you just don\'t post enough instead of everybody else posting too much.
Anyways back ontopic maybe everybody could have one thing he is really good at, wouldn\'t mean a job change would just mean that he can shoot a bow pretty well without trying. I know it is a lot like what grono said, only difference is that this will only ever affect one stat.
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Originally posted by Sifright
See what i mean? thats exactly what im talking about none of you even got that what grono is trying to say i give up this is pathetic to even watch
So I am spamming as well? I have been here only two months and I also have a higher postcount than you, still I only post on a select few threads that are interesting for me and also I always read the entire thread before posting unless it\'s excessively long or the last posts can clearly be answered without doing so. I did read Gronomists post and think that my post shows this. AMOF, it doesn\'t matter wether the randomness only applies to 30 points out of 1000 or to every single option in the creation, because it\'s still against the whole idea of background. If I want to be a great smith and have a cool background for this but the system persistently decides I\'m going to be a mage, well, I wouldn\'t want to create a new background for a new char that I don\'t really want to play. As I said, unlike IRL, in PS, we do have the choice, and artificially removing that (even partially) is bad IMO. In PnP RPGs, I sometimes play ppl. who are exceptionally gifted in some respects but actually refuse these very abilities, but in all cases it has been my choice. If I wanted randomness, I would simply ask for a \"randomize\" option on each page of the char creation, including the \"giftedness\" page. I want choice, options and total control, not randomness.
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I don\'t like this idea. RP is RP and to have the computer tell you how to do it is taking the fun out of it. No way I want to be a chef! Besides, look at it from this point of view. These skills are learned right (in real life)? So you choose which skills you will know (still in real life) at age 26. No one randomly chose them!
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..... i think you are misundestanding (or may be i am -_-), but the point was to give bonus points to the working skills( at least i think it is, because gronomist didn especify in what skill, im just deducing because of the examples she made ^^) and dont affect the possibility of learning any other skills, i mean you can still become a chef, or a butcher, but you may be a better alquimist, (because of the bonus points) but you still can decide what to be........and about the thing about \"you can choose your talents because you are 26\" thing....well is true, but the thing gronomist is talking about is the natural talents (for example, in the real life...you like playing football, and you get good at it, and then one day you play basquetball for the first time on your life, and you find out you are pretty good at it, but you still like football, so theres the decition of going for what you really like, or going for the thing you are already naturally talented.....either way you can still become good in any of those, but you will be better in the one you have talent) also natural talent are not created by choice...is a \"natural\" talent, and you have it because your father was good at it, or your grand mother, etc...(you were born with those talents) so this will not affect any thing you want to make of your character (he can still be an exelent chef without any bonus points) but it helps for the ones who cant decide for a job, and it makes people try diferent jobs to find out in wich one are they better, and mantain the job system active and balanced ( to not leave any job behind or unused)....and moust of the people thought than the bonus points were some kind of random selection of skills, and forgot the real meaning of the word \"bonus\"...and \"natural\", and completly misundestand the point (or may be i did T_T, if so forgive me ^^)
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So from what I got, you either learn a certain skill faster or a boost to a certain skill. I\'m not sure I like that. Like what Elkindel, Levski, and Setrya said, I like to define what my character is. Even if it was some thing small like boost in learning speed of boost in skill, it would end up influencing me. It also has the tendency of causing people to create alts. If I make a mage and start rping a mage then all of a sudden realize I\'m awsome with a battle ax; it would cause me to move away from magic to take advantage of my natural ability to wield an ax. While it may lead to more rping in which I move away from magic, but then if I go back and realize I was having much more fun rping this great alpowerful wizard then an ax wielding barbarian. Sure you could rp your way back to magic, but how are you going to do it when you swore off all magic to become this powerful warrior on a quest to eliminate all magic from this world. I\'m just saying that we make it what we want, It\'s not just about interfereing with our character builds, it has the potential of getting in the way of backgrounds which we decide.
Originally posted by Sifright
See what i mean? thats exactly what im talking about none of you even got that what grono is trying to say i give up this is pathetic to even watch
Now who\'s spamming.
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Yup, Melbourne, that\'s what I was trying to say too.
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Yeah sure it be realistic but i always thought games was for fun, not realism.
not being able to choose what you want to be good at will cause people recreating their chars until they get something they want.
i think games should be for entertainment and being able to choose skills i think is one of games advantadges over RL.
i don\'t play games just because they\'re close to reality i play em cause they are fun!
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I am quite pleased with what you said. And you are right, it is partly my fault for not reading it properly.
I\'ve been away for the week and am getting back now so i\'m probably late in saying this.
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Originally posted by Elkindel
It\'d be annoying if my gift was casting magic when my character has a strong aversion, distrust, and dislike of magic in general.
On the other hand, wouldn\'t it add an element to your character\'s plot to find out he\'s got the spirit of such-n\'-such old enchanter residing in him, causing him to question his beliefs and himself?
When it comes to a game that is primarily role-playing, then you can\'t always have everything the way you planned it. That\'s half the fun! Or at least a good third of it.
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Apparently very few of you people who post here actually know what a natural gift is. I wonder if that\'s because you spend so much of your childhood sitting in front of your computers while distributing your hard earned stat points. But because you\'re all so silly and indoor like, I\'ll explain it very carefully, just for you. :)
1) You don\'t get to chose where the bonus is, it is random.
Otherwise you wouldn\'t be naturally gifted. You would just have extra stat points. Bad idea.
2) There is no malus, there is only bonus.
You get a few bonus % to each job and skill, or if you\'re lucky, you get a big bonus % to few skills or a huge bonus % to one skill.
3) Noone asks you to play what you get as a bonus, it\'s your choice.
If your character happens to have a big bonus on using the bow, noone is forcing you to go that way. If you are skilled with a hammer and you already were planning on becoming an armorer, well lucky you. If your character happens to be very strong, but you like magic very much. Tough luck. :)
It is, in plain english, a random bonus that the server choses for you, not a bonus that you or your character choices have any affect on. You do not decide if you\'re good at fighting. It is something you train, or it is something you just happen to be good at from the beginning.
This bonus is to give people a choice to go and look for the things they are good at rather than just treadmilling their way through the skill system. Now, if you still don\'t understand the system, don\'t make your own speculations and say them like you know the idea in your head is the right one. Noone has ever died from asking a question on how something works. :)
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Ever since I got my first computer everyone says I am naturally gifted with them?
Anyway, as I said before (in a way) by the time your Char gets to be were it is when you start playing (which is after childhood/teen-years) you will have already known for the most part what you are naturally gifted @, & that is the point of the Advantages/Disadvantages part of Char creation & Char background?
(many people do not like randomly picked bonuses because they feel it gives an unfair advantage to some people?)
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Originally posted by Zeraph
Ever since I got my first computer everyone says I am naturally gifted with them?
Anyway, as I said before (in a way) by the time your Char gets to be were it is when you start playing (which is after childhood/teen-years) you will have already known for the most part what you are naturally gifted @, & that is the point of the Advantages/Disadvantages part of Char creation & Char background?
(many people do not like randomly picked bonuses because they feel it gives an unfair advantage to some people?)
Have you ever tried flying an aircraft? Did you ever try taking care of a forest? Build wooden statues? Make ice sculptures? Make a painting? Make horseshoes or an armor for that matter? Did you, did you, did you... Seriously Zeraph, by the time you turn 18, you have seriously no clue what you are, what you can do and what you\'re going to be. The only reason you know today is because you spent 12 years prior to that in school, learning about the things you can be. In a medieval setting, things are diffrent. You take over fathers business when he gets too old to do it, then you support your family, get married, bury your parents, get children, teach them to take over the business, and you die. I\'d love to see you actually be a role in a world where the settings are medieval fantasy. I doubt you\'d last a week, at least with that attitude. Things are not supposed to come because you want, you mean nothing to the world, so the world chews you up, spits you out and leaves you there on the ground to rot. I doubt very much you would even know how to throw a frisbee if you were living the life you want to live, a life in a medieval world. It\'s not as simple as it might seem.
But of course, it\'s just a game... :)
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Personaly I love the idea, the only problem is that there are those who have their background all worked out. And they wouldn\'t like this (I would just change my background but, heh)
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IMHO, as long as we are gifted in an area, that is fine. You might be gifted in an area that you don\'t want, but you can still do what you want without penalty. I do not want to be randomly penalized. As long as all you get are bonuses, the idea seems fine by me.
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This is definitely most effective as a \"secret\" bonus to the player\'s abilities - someone\'s interests might line up with their natural talents, or they might not. I think the bonuses should be fairly small, but noticeable - perhaps they would have a few levels of a \"beginner\'s luck\" or initial proficiency in a few random skills, but not an ongoing accumulating bonus (the idea being that your character\'s actions are more important than heritage, which may or may not be true of the real world)
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Originally posted by Gronomist
Apparently very few of you people who post here actually know what a natural gift is. I wonder if that\'s because you spend so much of your childhood sitting in front of your computers while distributing your hard earned stat points. But because you\'re all so silly and indoor like, I\'ll explain it very carefully, just for you. :)
Surely I classify as this, no? To be clear on this: I absolutely and 100% understood what you were proposing, I just happen to dislike it, for reasons I\'ll explain later on (and have done so already in my previous post).
Originally posted by Gronomist
1) You don\'t get to chose where the bonus is, it is random.
Otherwise you wouldn\'t be naturally gifted. You would just have extra stat points. Bad idea.
I\'ll come to this later on.
Originally posted by Gronomist
2) There is no malus, there is only bonus.
You get a few bonus % to each job and skill, or if you\'re lucky, you get a big bonus % to few skills or a huge bonus % to one skill.
Riiiiiiight! So please explain why the absence of bonus isn\'t the exact same as the presence of malus?
I have difficulty seeing the difference (besides being labelled differently) between \"You get 30 points but as a malus you get -5 points if you don\'t pick XYZ\" and \"You get 25 points but if you pick XYZ you get 5 bonus points\".
Originally posted by Gronomist
3) Noone asks you to play what you get as a bonus, it\'s your choice.
If your character happens to have a big bonus on using the bow, noone is forcing you to go that way. If you are skilled with a hammer and you already were planning on becoming an armorer, well lucky you. If your character happens to be very strong, but you like magic very much. Tough luck. :)
Exactly what I meant. The system randomly assigns you a path and if you choose not to follow it, you get a malus.
Originally posted by Gronomist
It is, in plain english, a random bonus that the server choses for you, not a bonus that you or your character choices have any affect on. You do not decide if you\'re good at fighting. It is something you train, or it is something you just happen to be good at from the beginning.
This bonus is to give people a choice to go and look for the things they are good at rather than just treadmilling their way through the skill system. Now, if you still don\'t understand the system, don\'t make your own speculations and say them like you know the idea in your head is the right one. Noone has ever died from asking a question on how something works. :)
What you described is, as I already said, exactly what I understood it was in your original post. I, however, still dislike it, because it effectively is a malus for the ppl. who don\'t follow the randomly assigned path.
Why do I dislike it, since it is more realistic and usually realism is what to go for in any game? Well, because there are things in our world that plainly suck. These are, certainly, realistic, but I still don\'t want them in the games I play because I play these games to be free from what sucks IRL. So, despite all the randomness IRL, I want absolute control in the games.
I therefore think that if you want randomness there should be an option of \"randomize\". Don\'t tell me that \"giftedness\" isn\'t the same as \"extra stat points\" because, in fact, to me it does not even matter what giftedness is being expressed as, because not being gifted in what I choose to do IMO equates to being assigned a malus in that profession (or any profession besides the randomly selected one(s)). This applies to the randomised distribution of the giftedness percentage as well, if not in a greater way because it creates unfairness even within the \"gifted\" ones. It\'s the same as distributing stat / skill points randomly.
After all, why do we get to choose race at all? IRL, we can\'t do that, can we? Nor can we select what our stats are. Or what we look like. Not even the name! Hell, we don\'t even get the same amount of stat points for each \"RL character\" (which is hardly fair, is it?)! So if you argue that way, the system would need to assign a randomly created char to you. Sure, it would be perfectly realistic but not enjoyable (at least to me).
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The system has to be \"realstic\". Lets say your a enki and some how your gifted in swimming or your a Kran and you are gifted in magic ..... werid eah or at least its unfitting ?
So the gift system should to follow certain rules about the race you choose. So if your a human you get all the unseen choices as their pratcialy good at anything or if your a whatchacallit \"water elves\" ? you would have a higher chance of being gifted in swimming or \"water based magic\" can you imagine a \"water elf\" being gifted in fire type magic ? And for dwarfs they would have a higer chance of being gifted in smithing or mineing and they should rarely get stamina/speed type bonous
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(I only read the first post =P)
Okay, I just think this is damn unfair.
Planeshift is still a game!! I bet everyone (like 60 or 70%? :D) would be happy if this proposal would not get implemented.
And it isn\'t unfair that Ronaldo can play better football than
I can, I think he trained a lot to get that good. Ronaldo didn\'t get \"Random Bonus Stat Points\" or w/e it\'s called. -.-
EDIT: All different Races already have Stat Bonus\' I think you can compare that with your naturally gifted stuff.
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Eh, where exactly is the realism everyone talks about?
Usually people go towards skills they find easy to train. If someone is good at maths, he won\'t go into history.
Plus we usually get to know what we are good in from quite early years, not after many years of training.
Being gifted usually shows in stats. Sure you don\'t pick what you are gifted in, but do you normally choose what race you are?
Ok, that was for myth of realism.
Here\'s for the rp part:
ex char history: I quickly noticed that I\'m very good at using bows, thus I spent many years of training to enhance my skills in it.
But the char was gifted in cooking, not archery...
You know what? Scratch that... People only told me I\'m good at it, it turns out I\'m not gifted in archery at all...
I think he trained a lot to get that good. Ronaldo didn\'t get \"Random Bonus Stat Points\" or w/e it\'s called. -.-
ditto
Or simply trained a lot because he was gifted in the first place.
- Swords
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Originally posted by Waylander
Personaly I love the idea, the only problem is that there are those who have their background all worked out. And they wouldn\'t like this (I would just change my background but, heh)
I\'m just curious. How can one already have their background worked out, if there is nothing in particular to have a background about? Sure you can decide to study magic, or learn how to use a bow, but that doesn\'t make you a master of that thing already. Besides, you have no clue how difficult/easy or weak/strong the thing you\'ve chosen is, and you might end up finding that it\'s not of your liking. A background isn\'t something you decide beforehand, it\'s something you develop as you play, thus a background. Not a prediction of your character\'s story.
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Originally posted by Draklar
Plus we usually get to know what we are good in from quite early years, not after many years of training.
Being gifted usually shows in stats. Sure you don\'t pick what you are gifted in, but do you normally choose what race you are?
Ok, that was for myth of realism.
Well, yes, but no.
How do you know you\'re gifted in cooking if you\'ve never cooked before? How do you know you\'re an ace pilot if you\'ve never flown before? Similarly, how do you know you\'re good at swords if all you\'ve ever done is to practice with a bow?
Originally posted by Draklar
Here\'s for the rp part:
ex char history: I quickly noticed that I\'m very good at using bows, thus I spent many years of training to enhance my skills in it.
But the char was gifted in cooking, not archery...
You know what? Scratch that... People only told me I\'m good at it, it turns out I\'m not gifted in archery at all...
Or, you could put it like this: I tried archery one day, and found that I loved it. It felt like I had an in-born knack for it, even though I didn\'t hit my target very often in the beginning. Hence, I spent many many hours to hone my skills to perfection. Then, one day, I tried cooking this deer I hunted down, and found to my surprise that it tasted delicious.
In other words, there is no way the character won\'t be good at archery if (s)he put some practice hours into it. But in the beginning, some people will pick it up faster than (s)he will.
And like previously said; these are just bonus points to give a little extra edge in the skills XYZ, for those first few hours of training. If you put lots of regular skill points in Archery... Well, you\'ll be good at archery. :)
So, say that you distribute the skills like this in character setup:
(150 SPs total)
Cooking: 10
Smithing: 30
Archery: 60
Swordsmanship: 10
Alchemy: 20
Magic: 20
And the bonus skills (30 in total) get distributed to something like this:
Cooking: 10 + 15
Smithing: 30 + 5
Archery: 60
Swordsmanship: 10 + 5
Alchemy: 20 + 5
Magic: 20
You won\'t be less good at Archery, but you will have an easier chance at Cooking. Now, let\'s say the maximum value of all these skills are 255 - As you can see, the numbers doesn\'t really matter all that much.
So, in closing, I think this is a good idea and definitely should be implemented, but only if kept at a level where it doesn\'t really interefere with the player\'s choices.
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Let?s Put This Simply
I am a Sorcerer... and i am suddenly have and \"edge\" in archery....
My Nemesis (robinmagus = P) is say a swords man and has an \"edge\" in swordsman ship
If we are both experienced evenly, he will still be better.
Thus, i have a malus
The Crap thing in RL is that you?re born a way, and you can?t change that. In RP you can be anything you imagine. I don?t want to change from something i love to something I\'m good at like in RL, I want to do whatever i want and STILL be as good as anyone else can.
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When you\'re creating your character and upping certain attributes for the start when you don\'t have any experience you ARE essentially choosing your \"gifts\".
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Originally posted by Gronomist
A background isn\'t something you decide beforehand, it\'s something you develop as you play, thus a background. Not a prediction of your character\'s story.
err no :P
background is something you make up, usually at char creation, to give you a better view on its past, motives, etc.
So Waylander is right.
Plus if someone wants to rp gifted swordsman, let him rp gifted swordsman.
If you want it realistic, make race and stats random as well... and see how many people will like it.
- Swords
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Personally like this idea, but have few disagreements, or maybe additions. Hope I\'m not repeatin anyones words.
Ok, maybe there should be 2 gifts, one for combat, one for crafting. This way seems fair to me, but if my words don\'t get through I don\'t mind really, just beware :)
Some ideas of gifts:
combat:
health regeneration
runs faster
stamina regeneration
quicker hit with a hammer(hammer being example of a wep.)
more damage with a hammer
when under healing spell, heals more because body is natural to healing magic (or something like that)
more evasive
pacifier(means that monsters will take much longer to start attacking, so their hostility towards you decreases, specially when you run away, monsters don\'t follow usually, unless really pissed at you :D )
crafting:
has more luck to find rare ores.
has more luck to get rare lumber
learns blacksmithy faster (or other skill)
has no failing chance when making leather armor
has no failing chance when making pottery
etc.
well post more ideas i guess
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it strangely seems to me that u aparantely locked the free character creations, just giving a advantage to some races, is almost the same of saying elfs can olny be herbalists, archer, druids, sorcer; and humans knights, swordsman, warrior... it sux dont u think, a natural advantage only can be set (and its already seted) is about some status like strenght stamina, breath under water, runing speed, this is a REEAALLYY natural gift, not something that will set the avaliable jobs that u can choice...
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yea, its kinda more life like in a way but c\'mon if it would be more realistic this would be something you would NOT put in the game, what you are talking about is all random in life you have to keep working at something to get good at it but i do get your point, I think there should be a choice for it or no bonuses at all.
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This is a good idea in theory... but not in the game. Alot of people would like to be able to RP and choose what their character was naturally gifted at. Most people have their heart set on doing on thing or another. So if you were to implement this, it would just made some players randomly better at the start because they luckily get the natural \'giftedness\' in the same stats or areas they already chose, where as the people who wern\'t lucky are at a relative disadvantage. I mean it would be more realistic too if we couldnt choose our races, wouldnt it? You can choose what race you are even less then what you are naturally gifted at. But i dont think anybody would ever consider implmenting that, would they? Because people just want to choose. There has to be a balance between realism and fun. However if you did think of a way to do this fairly (and i cant), a good way to do it would be that the character learns out what they are naturally gifted at only after a certain number of hours of play, or when they reach a certain level. This would mean you cant just re-create characters when it dosnt go your way, else it would take far too much work, it would just be better to go with what you get.
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I am going to agree with the original poster on this. It helps develop the character.
Examples:
A player decides that his elf will use a bow. The game decides that he is good with a sword, or worse an axe. He may never develop a skill in the sword or axe not knowing the game selected it for him.
A mage is getting hard pressed in battle, he is loosing ground with his magic and grabs a sword off a fallen enemy. He finds that the sword feels right in his hand and he has instinctively some skill in it.
A hardened warrior, winner of many battles, has never even opened a spell book. One night he is heading home from the tavern without his sword and runs into a group of street toughs. He fights with them and gets stomped. He goes to the temple the next morning and is introduced to healing magic, he finds that he has a knack for it and afterwords adds it to his skill list.
These are three possible selections. Character made his character and did not think about anything else. Later he finds out where the skills the game chose for him were.
How about these examples.:
The toughened warrior has to spend the night in the wilderness and kills a deer with a skilled shot from his bow. He turns to deal with the kill and finds it comes easy to him. He thinks about it and after eating a meal from a poor inn, that he could do better. Turning his mind to learning the cooking skill.
A young mage yearning for excitement tries to pick a lock and finds that he can. He quickly turns to a life of crime, as his skills that he never thought to develop were in the thief arts.
Then you get things like.:
The young fighter that hates animals sees a horse racing towards him at full gallop. He dives to the side and notices that the horse in going to trample a nice looking young lady. He throws himself in the way and attempts to calm the animal to make himself more interesting to the young lady. He sees the horse calm and realizes he is good with animals.
The young herbalist sees a bit of metal sticking up from the ground and digs it out, knowing he has always been good digging, it takes little time but is damaging to his plants. The lure of mining does not appeal to him. He reburies the ore and replants the herbs that had to be dug up to get at the metal.
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This is all very well, but these all are things that are RP-only. You can\'t force them. The player needs to decide these things, not the server. It is my char, my ideas, my backstory and my decision - solely. What if I actually would like to do such a thing (decide upon change in char\'s direction), say I\'m a warrior and wish to become a cook, but the server decided I am going to be a merchant instead of a cook?
You see, it looks all nice when you assume that it\'s going to be the way you envisaged, but the chances of it actually being at least somewhat like you envisioned are very slim.
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Role play. If my character gets a foolish skill as a inherent bonus, Do I take what is given me and push on, yes. I can still do every thing I want with my character, but my character has a knack for something.. Its part of role play to figure out what that is. But I forget, leet players want everything their way, without any surprises.
If I offend do not flame me, think about what is said.
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Originally posted by Seytra
This is all very well, but these all are things that are RP-only. You can\'t force them. The player needs to decide these things, not the server. It is my char, my ideas, my backstory and my decision - solely. What if I actually would like to do such a thing (decide upon change in char\'s direction), say I\'m a warrior and wish to become a cook, but the server decided I am going to be a merchant instead of a cook?
You see, it looks all nice when you assume that it\'s going to be the way you envisaged, but the chances of it actually being at least somewhat like you envisioned are very slim.
Let me make an example, just for you, proving how very wrong you are...
Example one - Your way.
You are an archer. You have always been an archer because you like archering. You keep being an archer and you pwn every other archer in the game, as well as most other players.
Example two - My way.
Your character has a bonus in smithing. You don\'t know that because you have never tried smithing. You keep being an archer, just like you want. You STILL pwn everyone as an archer, and you think \"hey I\'m good at this\" and you just keep being an archer because you like it and because you decide that\'s the only reason why you want to play.
What you happen to not understand is that there will be NOTHING pushed on you. You have NO requirements that you have to meet, simply because you have a SMALL bonus to something. Stop being such a nitpicker, thinking everything is about Stat A and Bonus B, and if you don\'t have both you can\'t win. Get over it. The least you could do is provide some constructive critisism instead of saying it\'s a bad idea because then people will be better than you, or then people can\'t play what they want.
As for what I just said, please provide me with the statement I\'ve made, where it is obvious I\'m saying people can\'t play just the way they want, if this idea is to be implemented.
Originally posted by Silverthorne
But I forget, leet players want everything their way, without any surprises.
Exactly.
What d00d doesn\'t know about, d00d is scared of.
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Yes very cool idea that would make PS different from a lot of RPGs but I have found a Con- Luca in an interview said:
\"The choice we made long time ago was to have no classes, but a skill based system. This approach gives great flexibility during char creation and progression, where the player can choose the skill mix he prefers. A single character will be able to master magic and fighting at the cost of time. We are pretty sure that specialization will occur anyway as many players will choose to become more proficient in a few arts only or even just one.\"
--
They basicly say that they want characters to have a choice in what skills to use without over-empaphis on one. This means they may be against this \"strength of one skill\" even only for one user.
--
Please tell me if I am being stupid I am just a helpless Noob!
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Originally posted by E211
Yes very cool idea that would make PS different from a lot of RPGs but I have found a Con- Luca in an interview said:
\"The choice we made long time ago was to have no classes, but a skill based system. This approach gives great flexibility during char creation and progression, where the player can choose the skill mix he prefers. A single character will be able to master magic and fighting at the cost of time. We are pretty sure that specialization will occur anyway as many players will choose to become more proficient in a few arts only or even just one.\"
--
They basicly say that they want characters to have a choice in what skills to use without over-empaphis on one. This means they may be against this \"strength of one skill\" even only for one user.
--
Please tell me if I am being stupid I am just a helpless Noob!
Please tell me which part of my idea made you even think that people can only use ONE thing, if that\'s what they are good at. Please do that. I\'m dying to know what it is that\'s so hard to understand about this idea.
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I would have to agree with gronomist about those said gifts since they are invisible in her proposal, except for the server\'s database, they could be implemented without you ever knowing anything about it.
In fact you could even be playing in such a system now and not know about it, nothing changed in the skill structure, nothing changed in the theoritical training, only a factor set in the speed of progress to level.
For example :
Char A : gifted in sword would need only three successful hits to level after training
while
Char B: normal in sword would nee the normal number of successful hits (never bothered to count but there are more than three)
And voil? you would have implemented a gift system without anybody being aware about it.
I\'m not stating this is what Gronomist is thinking about when speaking about such a gift system, but this would be a way of implementing it.
Now tell me, if such a system was implemented, how would you tell it was in place ? And what type of advantage do you figure it would give you ?
They could even set it so that success rate calculation would give a different result for 2 persons with the same level and you would never be the wiser.
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Originally posted by Silverthorne
Role play. If my character gets a foolish skill as a inherent bonus, Do I take what is given me and push on, yes. I can still do every thing I want with my character, but my character has a knack for something.. Its part of role play to figure out what that is.
No, it\'s not. It\'s part of the game mechanics, at best. Well, OK, it can be considered to be RP, as the role is given to you. However, it\'s not part of the RP to figure out what it is. You can RP to be trying to figure it out, but you can just as easily just try it out without any RP at all.
Originally posted by Silverthorne
But I forget, leet players want everything their way, without any surprises.
Do you think I\'m going to back down to avoid being called 1337? If yes, then you\'re wrong.
Originally posted by Silverthorne
If I offend do not flame me, think about what is said.
Yes, I think about it, and I come to the conclusion that it doesn\'t have anything to do with RP. It is a matter of personal preference, and I happen to dislike surprises, so what? Does that tell anything about my RP? No, I don\'t think it does.
Originally posted by Gronomist
What d00d doesn\'t know about, d00d is scared of.
What I said above is true for you as well: I will not change my statements to avoid being called d00d, 1337 or n00b. I will change my statements if I\'m convinced that I were wrong, but this certainly isn\'t going to do that.
As for your examples: Maybe you like being surprised. Does this make your RP better? I don\'t think so. It just means that you may be more flexible in what you can / like to play. I may be good at playing knights, but crap at playing mages. Maybe I enjoy playing archers, just as I enjoy certain types of music, and hate playing thieves just as I hate certain other kinds of music.
I don\'t plan on becoming the best at whatever my chars are going to do. I couldn\'t, since I know that I\'m not the grinding kind. However, I do care whether I get the choice. I don\'t see why I need to give up this choice when you can just hit \"randomize\"?
I want equal chances, and I don\'t think there\'s anything bad or wrong with that.
I agree that total control is used to optimise characters. However, I don\'t think that this is inherently wrong. In fact, I think it is a good idea. After all, it\'s hard to RP a decent mage if your char can barely cast the most basic of spells, is it? And don\'t tell me that it\'s RP to accept what you get. That\'s not RP, that\'s either indefference or being highly flexible. However, it\'s just like IRL, some people like playing certain kinds of games, but does it make someone a \"better gamer\" if a person plays any game that they get hold of?
Since you asked for me being constructive: how about adding a \"randomise percent\" or \"randomise points\" option? Maybe this option can also be made to automaticly lead to the next page of the char creation so that you don\'t even get to see the results. Or it could be added at each page, but not done before after the upload? This way, you\'d see the stats that you ended up with before upload, as well as the choices of how much to randomise, but the server would do the randomisation and you wouldn\'t know the results.
This way everyone would get the choice I\'m asking for.
Originally posted by Darakus
Now tell me, if such a system was implemented, how would you tell it was in place ?
Easily: by reading the source code. And even without that, it will show over time. I observe and combine, and others do, too. It would not stay hidden for long.
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Easily: by reading the source code. And even without that, it will show over time. I observe and combine, and others do, too. It would not stay hidden for long.
Of course if you download the source to read it :)
That said I do not believe it would be as easy to spot as you say by in game cross referencing as you would have to know how they implemented the modification.
I still do not understand you on one point and that is where you state that customisation would be diminished to implement such a bonus system, it mainly depends on how the bonus system would be handled, after all if it was well done bonuses would be influenced by your life\'s story which would made it so that if you chose in life story to be \"talented in singing\" your bonus would be in singing, however if you chose no particular area of talent in your life story then the bonus would be random (which is quite logical since you yourself would be undecided on chosing a gifted area)
Now if we still agree to disagree on this point lets close the discussion since it is a bit pointless after all :)
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The fairness of this idea is a key problem, really. Some players will be lucky and get the advantages they want, others will not. If there is an argument why this is fair, I\'d like to hear it (I know it\'s realistic, but that\'s a seperate issue). The only way no make it fair would be to make the effect so negligible it\'s not worth implementing in the first place.
There are also alot of people who decide in advance who they want to be. The in-game world will be random enough as it is for these people, they are also quite capable of changing their mind about who they wish to be without the aid of invisible skill bonuses.
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Ok heres what I think. Ok lets say this:
1. Marco, who wants to be the worlds most powerful wizard, so you practice. Then you just feel like smithing for no reason, you just do it for the heck of it, \"WOW, I\'m pretty good!\"
So Marco wants to be a wizard, but he is good at smithing, thats cool, right? What I keep hearing is that it is \"unfair\". So he is good at smithing and average at magic, SO WHAT? QUIT WHINING! IT DOESNT MATTER, JUST PRACTICE MORE WITH MAGIC (its in caps so you will read this part clearly). So what if you practice less with smithing, its only about 10 percent anyway WHO CARES.
2. Bob the powerful fighter wants to wield an axe, wow, he sucks! \"I cant be a fighter if I suck with an axe, the weapon I want to use!\" He practices it anyway, then one day, its goes away. \"Wow! I finally got pretty good with an axe! Heck, I can even beat that high level monster!\"
YAY!!! Bob is not that good with an axe, but if he keeps practicing, the penalty goes away!!! He knows how to use it right now! He can even beat anything with the axe!
Have you ever watched a movie where someone faces their fears? Well this is just like it! LEARN HOW TO USE YOUR MISTAKES TO MAKE YOURSELF BETTER!!!!! (important) That is how *I* would do it, it doesn\'t mean *you* have to do it though. I think my idea is pretty good.
3. John hates Paul because Paul seems to learn herbology faster. John is ticked off and hates this system. His goal in this game was to be the best in herbology and he does all this work and Paul just cuts through it like its paper. One day from working so hard, John just suddenly got so good at it, he seems to get better MUCH faster. Thus, he creates his own bonus.
NOTE: Making your own bonus has a lower limit (only about 10-12 percent maybe and takes a long time and lots of hard work)
Yeah! John rocks! From doing it so much and working so hard, he got better than Paul! Paul may have an 8 percent bonus in herbology, but John just created himself about 10 percent!!! WOW! SO THERE IS HOPE FOR JOHN! Paul can also get better than John if he slacks off! But once you get higher in bonus, it will get harder to get a higher increase!
That is how I would do this, It seems flawless to me, but, thats me. Tell me what you think, thanks! (no flaming please)
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Originally posted by Darakus
Easily: by reading the source code. And even without that, it will show over time. I observe and combine, and others do, too. It would not stay hidden for long.
Of course if you download the source to read it :)
As far as I have looked at the source, it is well-written. And this includes
- modularisation and
- documentation.
Both of these are essential for any project of this size, especially with such a number of developers, who also change frequently, to actually work. Therefore I actually expect to see something like
//Skills.cpp: Source for skill system
/*
1.12.2004: changed skill advancement for Kran
2.12.2004: implemented hidden bonus system
(...)
*/
(...)
/*
This function randomises the hidden skill bonus
INOUT: char - the character object of class Char_Object_C, created by the char creation
IN: skills - the skill table of struct Skill_Table, generated by the char creation
*/
signed char RandomiseBonus(Char_Object_C char, Skill_Table skills)
{
(...)
}
Apart from that, there will be plenty of entries in the CVS history, etc., etc.. Not hard to find, as it should be.
Originally posted by Darakus
That said I do not believe it would be as easy to spot as you say by in game cross referencing as you would have to know how they implemented the modification.
That might be. If it actually makes a difference, which it needs to to be worth adding, then it\'ll
- be noticable in either low or high levels, which also are the exact levels at which players look very closely at their advancements and effectivity.
Even if it doesn\'t show in skills or levelling, it will show in combat / task efficiency, and this will be noticed as constant, i.e. not statistical skew. Even passively observing other chars of the same level in certain skills will show it, considering the number of players.
Originally posted by Darakus
I still do not understand you on one point and that is where you state that customisation would be diminished to implement such a bonus system, it mainly depends on how the bonus system would be handled, after all if it was well done bonuses would be influenced by your life\'s story which would made it so that if you chose in life story to be \"talented in singing\" your bonus would be in singing, however if you chose no particular area of talent in your life story then the bonus would be random (which is quite logical since you yourself would be undecided on chosing a gifted area)
However, this wouldn\'t be \"naturally gifted\" anymore, since your past would decide it. Also, it would be like the current char creation, and I\'d be perfectly fine with that, since it effectively does give the player control.
Originally posted by Darakus
Now if we still agree to disagree on this point lets close the discussion since it is a bit pointless after all :)
Indeed, like different tastes of music. :)
@ Aravi: exactly.
Edit:
@ Mythofsouls: Examples 1 and 2 IMO clearly display the unfairness of the system: one player needs to put more work into achieving the same goal as another player, for no other reason than randomness.
Furthermore, these things don\'t just \"go away\". If you train exceptionally hard, then you can even become very good at something. However, if you\'re gifted in it, you\'ll either not need to train that hard or you get to the same proficiency way faster.
See, this is what I see as RP: I can start low on something but still practice it and RP to be having difficulty at it, which reflected the choices I made. However, it was my decision to do that, and not the servers. If I simply want to become the best at something, like a legendary fighter, then I obviously wouldn\'t choose to start low on fighting skills, except if I wish to RP someone who masters it despite not being talented in it.
As for the self-created bonuses: what\'ll happen if both train equally hard? Wouldn\'t Paul get a bonus of 10 as well, thus increasing his bonus to 18, preserving the inequality?
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Ok if thats a problem then how about this: if you get a natural bonus, then its harder to get your bonus up, if you have no bonus, get your own, but you can get it faster (but not necessarily easier) There also should be a limit, like around 10-15% and natural abilities should start around 1-10% or less.
ALSO, if you have a negative bonus, dont worry! You can easily get rid of it if you are patient. So stop complaining if its unfair to have negative bonuses. This means you have something to work on! Also, everybody should have an equal amount of negative bonuses.
Also, in my opinion, if you need to work harder on something. Too bad. If you are too lazy to work, you dont get it. If you get a better bonus, great. This is just like real life people!!!! WORK FOR YOUR GOAL! PLEASE STOP SAYING IT IS UNFAIR BECAUSE LIFE IS NOT AND I WILL REPEAT IS NOT FAIR. This is a game! If the *randomness* makes the game unfair and you are not wanting to work for it, then go play halo 2 or half life 2 and play easy mode and pawn them like crazy. If you have such a bonus (10%) in a skill and you learn faster WHO CARES!!! You do less work! If you have a negative bonus in a skill, THEN GUESS WHAT? You are the same as everybody else! If the skill is not of your favor, FINE, dont make it a big deal, its not what you want, who cares!
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Originally posted by Mythofsouls
Also, in my opinion, if you need to work harder on something. Too bad. If you are too lazy to work, you dont get it. If you get a better bonus, great. This is just like real life people!!!! WORK FOR YOUR GOAL! PLEASE STOP SAYING IT IS UNFAIR BECAUSE LIFE IS NOT AND I WILL REPEAT IS NOT FAIR. This is a game! If the *randomness* makes the game unfair and you are not wanting to work for it, then go play halo 2 or half life 2 and play easy mode and pawn them like crazy. If you have such a bonus (10%) in a skill and you learn faster WHO CARES!!! You do less work! If you have a negative bonus in a skill, THEN GUESS WHAT? You are the same as everybody else! If the skill is not of your favor, FINE, dont make it a big deal, its not what you want, who cares!
Will you stop it already? Come off the \"WHO CARES?!?!?\" line! If you absolutely must have an answer to this rhetorical question: I care.
As for your argument \"too bad, it\'s (just like) life\", then this is exactly why I don\'t want it! I have already said this in some of my earlier posts on this subject / thread, that life isn\'t the perfect way of doing things. (OK, actually I said that realism needs to stop where it seriously detracts from an enjoyable gaming experience, which IMNSHO, is the same message, however). Life has more than just some aspects which plainly suck. However, games are meant for fun, not as pointless waste of (just as pointless) energy as is life. So this means that care schould be taken to not place things into games that suck. Life is unfair, but unfairness sucks, so it\'s got no place in games. As you yourself pointed out: PS isn\'t life, it\'s a game!
I will not cease to point out that this system would be unfair, as this is one of the central arguments.
Furthermore, nobody said they don\'t want to work for it. The only thing they said is that they want the amount of work which is required to be equal for everyone.
Read what we say, and stop trolling!
Furthermore, it\'s just sad that you continously state that you don\'t care whether others have an enjoyable gaming experience, as if this were an acceptable attitude. :tdown:
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Sorry I was just angry, now can we please go back to the suggestion I made?
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Moderator please lock this forum. It is turning from an interesting idea into flame wars.
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This is a game! If the *randomness* makes the game unfair and you are not wanting to work for it, then go play halo 2 or half life 2 and play easy mode and pawn them like crazy.
Myth of Souls, how is it that unfairness and difficulty become the same thing? You seem to view them as one and the same.
Difficulty can be quite fair, if all must face the same challenge.
Lack of difficulty can be quite unfair, if only some get the easy way.
Unlike reality a game doesn\'t need to be unfair. In fact, unfair = imbalanced.
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Bah, you people are impossible.
Someone already said that in rp game people should be able to decide about characters they want to roleplay.
And it should end at that.
It\'s stupid idea, handicaping roleplaying possibilities. \'Nuff said.
- Swords
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Well, I\'ve already expressed my support for this idea, since I don\'t see it to be \"unfair\". Or rather, it\'s an unfairness that doesn\'t stick, since you can still be a great swordsman, and in the end maybe even a *better* one than one with a natural talent for it. Natural talents tend to have a habit of becoming lazy you know... ;)
Then again, I\'m pretty much an \"Okay, my character is kinda like this\" type of RP:er, and I often if not always let the dice give me a couple of advantages/disadvantages, and shape my character in a way my mind might not have intended or thought of in the first place. I don\'t want perfect control of my character; I know I\'ll never have it anyhow. I want an interesting character to play, and in my experience what makes a character interesting is by and large it\'s disadvantages.
Numbers are just numbers. Stats are just stats. No offence, but it\'s so goddamn *boring* to play a Paladin that hacks through everything he meets, but if that Paladin have a disadvantage of some sort, then it\'s all of a sudden a much more interesting character. Maybe it\'s a loud and obnoxious character. Maybe he lost his right arm while fighting a dragon. Maybe he\'s having doubts about his faith. Maybe he did something terrible in his past that still haunts him to this day. And I prefer to let the dice decide these kind of things for me, since I\'m an improvisator. Heck, my best character so far has been an alcoholized doctor that failed to save his wife. :)
That is why I, as a GM, always let all the characters in my group get one or two disadvantages, randomly chosen; it really increases the role-playing. The only question is, would you let it stay a disadvantage, or would you turn it to an advantage? And this idea would mean that yes, at some points you\'d be at a disadvantage, but it\'d by no means be a permanent one, and with practice you might even be better off in the end. It\'d enrichen your character by giving you some stuff you might never have thought of to give it otherwise. In my experience, not giving a person *total* control about their character has increased the role playing for everyone involved.
Not that I\'m hoping to convince anyone; just want you to know where I\'m coming from. That\'s all. Wertigon out!
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A few observations:
1. This idea adds something to your character that may later be discovered. You will explore yourself and your abilities, not just the world and people around you.
2. The joy of finding that you have a Talent or Talents, should it be something you like, will be intense. If you are good at something you would not have chosen, you can explore new ground, go an unexpected direction, to potentially even greater reward.
3. That a player, at random, might recieve a talent, or combination of them, that is unbalanced, player to player, is a good thing. It creates personality, difference, variety. There will no longer be hundreds of cookie-cutter characters that began identically. And the goal of each player will no longer default to becoming the strongest warrior.
4. It should take several days to discover whether a character has a particular Talent. If necessary, add a delay, before a talent could manifest. Those who would grind character creation to select a Talent in particular, are not really a problem of any kind. They will never know if they discarded a monstrous Talent that was not the one they sought.
5. Only the most myopic control freak, whose only goal is to overpower others, would fail to enjoy the added subtleties to the roleplay environment that this very simple and powerful change will create.
Finally:
If you can\'t see how brilliantly this adds to the game, then play somewhere else. You lack the imagination to provide me with any fun.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
ps: It is my hope, with the first CB Wipe underway, that this was already included in the updated character progression the Devs have promised.
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Originally posted by Verrliit
5. Only the most myopic control freak, whose only goal is to overpower others, would fail to enjoy the added subtleties to the roleplay environment that this very simple and powerful change will create.
Finally:
If you can\'t see how brilliantly this adds to the game, then play somewhere else. You lack the imagination to provide me with any fun.
I am still as opposed to this idea as I was when it was posted originally. Also, I see it as not mandatory to provide you with any fun, and it will most definitely not make me play another game. :tdown:
If you don\'t enjoy RPing with me because I don\'t think random maluses are fun, then don\'t. I have been RPing with a lot of people and we had a lot of fun without the server dictating what our chars are.
I may be a control freak, but my imagination is sufficient to not require the server to decide for me what I am to play. If that is what you call \"imagination\", then I am quite happy to lack it. :rolleyes:
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I personally like this idea.
And nethrys, you dont lack imagination. You lack emotion :D :D :D
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With apologies, I retract the admonishment to play somewhere else.
1. I am cranky from PS withdrawal, during the first CB Wipe.
2. In this world of dreams, there is nothing and no one that can fail to add to the story, if there is sufficient imagination to see how.
3. Just as variety and complexity is a good thing in character generation, it is also a good thing for those who cannot appreciate beauty, to provide contrast to those that can. (Narrow-minded people make me look good.)
4. I realize, that like Cyrano in his Ode to his Nose, I would not be half so eloquent were it not for the stimulation I receive from those without perception.
So...
Bring on the obtuse!
Let me see the self-righteous bombast, who values the dominance of his opinion above all else, and would not notice Beauty or Truth, if it sat upon his face and wiggled.
The reflexive, unthinking zealot, whose soul is desolate of poetry, will be the fertilizer of my inspiration.
And in soil as rich as that, a story can become a Legend.
The Dark Lady
Verrliit
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you still even CAN change you Character on creation in fact of what you choose from the list ..
Anyway .. I think even if there might be a random chage .. this change shoudl be small .. like the difference of 2-5 at some skill .. and even NOT on skills like sword or cooking skill .. cause you don\'t wake up an be a trained fighter or cook .. but you may be born as a strength one or with full of magic ..
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I do agree. I forget whom it was that wrote \'O little town of Bethlehem\' but they swore that it was from Heaven. They just woke up and wrote it.
I have had many times where I wake up and am just able to get work done on my systems that I have been stuck on for weeks.