PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Zeraph on August 09, 2004, 02:52:09 pm
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I am setting up this thread for those of us who are planning on becoming Animal Trainers / have a Familiar (when implemented) as a General Idea Discussion Topic / Compilation of Ideas. Post what you would like to see implemented as part of this system such as (but not limited to) How to Capture Animals / Animal Capturing Tools, Captured Animal Behaviors / Abilities, Controlling Large Animals, Using Animals as Weapons, etc...
Compilation of Ideas (So Far?):
Use Animals like Weapons(Devs: See first reply)
Updates: I am doing a search for ?Animal Training?, I?ll clean this up later?
Related Topic:
Mostly my post about this subject I found so far?
(I?ll organize these later for now they are by date)
Fammiliars (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=5986&boardid=11)
A ?Familiar? System: (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=8831&boardid=11)
Pet System / Animal Looks: (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=8806&boardid=11)
Pets, Hirelings, and all of that... (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3993&boardid=11)
Transformation (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=2596&boardid=11) (I was thinking about this one resently)
Mounts? (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=4074&boardid=11)
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Here is an Idea on how the simplest way to implement this kind of thing.
First of all as a start you should be able to purchase small animals in a store (such as those that can rest on your arm) & they should show up like Weapon/Spell/Armor in your inventory (more closely related to a spell).
Then, when you equip it (like a sword / bow) the animal will rest on you arm: Birds (Such as Hawks) can perch on the wrist, & Reptiles (Such as Snakes) Can wrap around the arm like a bracelet (you may want to make the arm extent when animal is \"Perched\" on it.) you don\'t really have to have animations of the animals when they are \"perched\" (but it would be nice).
As for using the animals, they will be basically be sword except for the fact that they look like animals. They also do damage like a Weapon / Spell.
Animal: Spear-Beaked Hawk
Attacks: Similar to a Bow & Arrow / Spear
Graphical Effect: Hawk detaches from the arm & is launched @ an opponent like a Guided Spear, then returns to the arm like a boomerang bouncing off a wall...
Food: Feeds on large rodents (like rabbits) & small lizards ...
Other stuff to implement later:
1. Healing Animals (like repairing a weapon @ a blacksmith) you can \"repair\" your animal @ a Animal Healer or something. You can also use self heal stuff on it like you would fix/sharpen one of your weapons. Every time you use that specific animal, the animal\'s Skill Level increases (Just like a normal skill / spell). It also puts some ware & tare on your Animal, so feeding it should help it to heal (this is for when weapon dulling / breakdowns of weapons is implemented)
2. Ability to capture wild animals & train them to be weapons
3. The amount of damage depends on firstly what skill level you have with that type of animal, secondly depends on the Animal\'s Strength / Spell-casting Skill (All Animals are different) also depends on how fatigued / hurt the animal is (Usage of mana involved in this) otherwise just treat it like normal weapon / spell damage (until you can implement).
4. More detailed Graphical Effects:
Later on when this system gets developed more, you can figure out a way to implement more natural-looking animations & things like animals fly/walk on the ground next to you... then start making them bigger (such as wolfs & large frogs etc.)
5. When animals gain skill / are fed they \"grow\", I herd that Cal3D will give us the ability to resize things using it so we can have shrink/big pots & stuff, I would like an animal that I am training to start to see it \"grow\" to a bigger size when I am training/feeding it up to a point.
I posted this so I can give the dev team a realistic way of starting to implement Animal Training, do you think that was accomplished?
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(http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/images/style/top_suche.gif) (http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/search.php?boardid=11)
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Are you going to help make this compilation of ideas or just complain about a repeat post? (Check the first most for updates on the gathering of related topics :D)
I didn?t find a up-to-date gatherring of all the ideas about this subject?
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i was in no way trying to be rude, jsut saying there are quite a few threads on this subjects, and that the ideas cast in those shouldn\'t be forgotten
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I agree, that\'s sort of the reson I set up this thread...
I am going to make it a \"Compilation of Ideas\" I\'ll work on this later, I am a little busy atm, I\'ll try to find the time...
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Heh this is actualy a cool thread, I like how you have the links to other threads about the topic. And don\'t mind Druke he is an AO snob :P jk
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Ya, well he had a topic about familiars so?.
Anyway, I really hope to see animals fighting in combat soon (right after magic) because animal trainer is sort of a 3rd way of doing combat (in my opinion) its like a mage & warrior combined only using animal instead of yourself in combat?
(although I wouldn\'t really like to see pokemon-like stuff happening in the game) we need to find a balance between advantages/disadvantages of more Animal Trainer oriented then Mage / Warrior oriented. But, I would like to also see Mage/Warrior type using animals as well. (Like Arabian swordsmen used Hawks for scouting & messages)? I think this would add something to the game (I haven?t really seen this much in mmorpgs I?ve played, not as a main way of combat)
& yes I know we will not have classes/levels so anyone can use animal training skills even if you are a blacksmith or something would be nice to see?
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I just had an idea, I don\'t know if its been posted before.
Say you want to train an animal, so you go out and find some strange animal on planeshift, your character isn\'t going to know its habits, etc. So you\'ll have to use a certain item to watch, say a pair of binoculars or something like that. That way your char would learn about it, the more you learn the better you could treat it?
I like the idea of your animal growing to tremendous sizes, (if their genes allow it) but not to have it be a baby one day and a giant the next. It has to be slow and take time to let your animal grow.
Another thing they can\'t all be combat oriented, I would like to see a hawk or something just either be a pet or do useful things, keep crows and other pests out of your farm, fly above and be able to find nearest town, food sources such as your hawk bringing back a rabbit or two out in the middle of the desert.
Sorry if those have been posted before.
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Melikes varsity\'s ideas about animals used for a wide variety of situations and actually being of use to the owner, rather than a costly hinderance as it is in many other games. I hope PS doesn\'t follow that trend. :)
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Ya, this one game you had to do a ?Pet Quest? were you could only get a wolf, everyone?s looked the same & they cost allot of money to buy. & they die & only can be revived by a scroll, but if you do not do this within a set time limit the wolf is gone forever & it takes tones of time to train.
I would like (for realism) your animal to be able to be killed, but you can pick up the body & take it to a Animal Healer & have it come back to life, or maybe something were you have to search for it in the death realm to bring it back?
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Ooh, I just had a little spark of imagination. :)
For mages, what could be better than a Pet-in-a-Bottle? A little puff of magic released into the air to become a temporary Familiar for the animal loving spellcasters. When no longer needed, simply turn your creature back into faerie dust and pocket the bottled pet for another day. :)
You could even mix ingredients into the bottle, give it a little shake, and see what it turns into! Change colours, change shape, grow wings, gain abilities?
Which also gives rise to a new job- create bottled pets for a living, selling them to those who don\'t have the ability to create their own. Make pets to owner\'s specifications for a higher price. ;)
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It would probably be popular with the Herbalists :)
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Indeed, but they would be expensive of course :) you\'d have to find out which ingredients work together. If not... you need to start over.
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I would like to see books about it in the library, maybe just about general ideas, I would think the ingredients would be expensive & you could bye recipes from rear book venders would be nice :D what would they look like?
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Yeah, that\'d be cool.
Maybe one or two ingredients could be added. Who knows what the best ingredients that could form together the ultimate monster, one VERY RARE item and a bit of grass could make it. There could be lots of combinations that would infuse into it.
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ya, the devs could make system that mixes stats / colors / shapes & stuff by what you put in, then even the devs wouldn\'t know what the best combo is...
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Well if we think deeper into how this could be implemented, each ingredient item already in the database could have an extra set of values specifically for this purpose, based on the item\'s rarity or physical properties (such as, is it organic, soft or hard, made from what? etc). Thus you wouldn\'t be required to make new items that only serve this purpose...
...Meaning thousands of ingredients...
:D *excited*
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* Gets extended like on the verge of a great discovery too *
Well, it could all be tide into the Alchemy system like ingredients have sets of values that up/down curtain concoctions & the server mixes it all in? & the effects of the mixure (like if you were to drink it) could be somewhat like the same effects that it has on the familiar, only it also changes the color etc.
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No idea if this has been suggested already, so be gentle.
1) Surrender -
When certain monsters get close to dying, they may \'surrender\' if you have a high enough charisma/persuasion/etc. They turn neutral, let you loot them (as if they had died), and start to follow you. You can either attack them again and kill them, take them to a prison/war camp for a bounty, possibly a quest, possibly to gain a title in the area (ie, bring in enough monsters and you\'ve made the area safer, so you get the title \'Squire\' or some such). Alternately if your charisma/persuasion/etc is high enough (note: higher than what it would take to just get them to surrender), you could turn them into a hireling.
For those of you who have played MechWarrior 3, I would imagine a system somewhat similair to that (not identical, of course... just a simple set target/order attack/defense/move here/etc) would be perfect for interacting with any NPCs following you.
2) Training -
99.9% of all wild animals can NOT be tamed. They must be raised from birth - perhaps a spawn point for wolf pups or eggs. Guarded by parents who will fight significantly harder to protect their young than other animals would, of course. If you have a high enough Animal Training skill, you can tame the animal. This means it follows you, attacks what you attack, and attacks what attacks you. Depending on the monster it could attack certain other creatures as well (Ie, a wolf automatically chasing rabbits). At higher skill levels, you can add extra abilities. Expanding on the idea:
-Take animal to a \'Training Yard\' or similar facility. Animal Training window pops up on-screen, showing requirements and special training.
-Each part of special training (not automatically chasing rabbits, for example) \'costs\' more skill. The only restriction here being that the cost of training the animal does not exceed your skill in training animals.
(Ex)
Wolf
Basic Training (15 Skill): Follows your character, defends character, attacks with character, chases rabbits
Attack Training (+5 Skill): Can order Wolf to attack creatures
Guard Training (+10 Skill): Can order Wolf to stay in a certain area and defend it from hostile creatures. (+20 skill): Wolf is better at determining which creatures are hostile. (+30 skill): Wolf is able to detect magically hidden creatures.
Control Training (+5 Skill): No longer chases after rabbits automatically.
Domestication (+10 Skill): Combat abilities decrease, but value when sold as a pet increases
Hunt Training (+5 Skill): \'Hunt\' command makes the wolf search for, then chase the nearest \'prey\' animal and attack it, if it\'s within a certain distance. (+15 Skill): Increases the distance the \'Hunt\' command works through. (+25 Skill): Increases the speed with which the wolf can find a prey animal.
Combat Training (+10 Skill): Similar to \'Hunt\', but targets enemies rather than prey animals. (+20 Skill) Larger distance (+30 Skill) Faster finding
Seek Training (+10 Skill): Similar to \'Hunt\', but instead lets the animal seek out a type of resources (Plants, some Minerals if they have smell, fallen objects, items, etc). (+20 Skill): Increases item variety that can be found (more difficult to detect/rarer items) and distance they can be detected from.
Ex:
You find a wolf pup, and take it to a training yard. You have 40 Skill in animal training, so you decide aside from the required basic training (15 pts), you want it to be a hunting animal. Attack Training (5 pts), Control Training (5 pts), and Hunting (lv2, 15 pts). This adds up to 40 (15 + 5 + 5 + 15 = 40), you train it, and then head out with your Wolf following you to find some good hunting grounds.
3) Evolution/Promotion/Experience
After a hireling gains a certain number of kills/experience, they may level up. For enemy races that surrendered and then \'swore to serve you\', this could mean something like a different name (Ie, \'Bandit\' becomes \'Raider\'). Animals gain maturity (\'Wolf\' becomes \'Tough Wolf\' or \'Alpha Wolf\' or something like that), and so forth. Animals would have a life measured in months, while a good hireling/henchman would last for upwards of a year depending on the race.
Naturally, wild creatures would gain stats like this as well. Perhaps even from fighting each other (Ie, a wild Wolf becomes a Tough Wolf after killing a few deer).
NOTE: I saw an argument against this elsewhere on the boards stating that it could cause newbie-death in areas where monsters can actually win against newbies. This could be solved by having monsters \'migrate\' once they reach a certain level - for example, Bandits that turn into Raiders leave for a larger and more dangerous city, for bigger rewards on their own part.
4) Familiars -
Forgive me if you mean something else by this, but my thought on Familiars is that they are magically called/created/summoned beings. An idea would be a sort of \'evolution game\' - you call one of a handful of creatures. Example: Lesser Water Elemental, Small Clay Golem, and Lesser Imp. They gain experience like a henchman/trained animal, and evolve normally (Lesser Imp>Imp>Strong Imp>Great Imp), at which point they become \'upgraded\'. They change completely to one of a few choices (Greater Water Elemental can become Lesser Acid Spirit or Lesser Ice Elemental, maybe Large Clay Golem can become Small Stone Golem or Weak Clay Warrior, and Great Imp becomes either Minor Fiendling or Weak Malice Spirit, maybe even Minor Lawyer). This continues for a long time, and if a character keeps the same Familiar through their entire adventuring career, they could end up with something like a Massive Mithril Golem or Greater Doom Spirit (smartass comment: or Enron Executive) following them around.
Depending on the level of player/game interaction, if a character gets their Familiar to a certain point it might even qualify as a \'Unique\', get it\'s own name and a few special powers.
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http://www.m-w.com/
Under the heading familiar:
3 : a spirit often embodied in an animal and held to attend and serve or guard a person
I never thought about simplifying it like that. Hmmm.
I know that this is an origional game and we don\'t want to borrow/steal from any other games. But just to keep your wheels spinning, I played a game (DragonRealms from Simutronics if you are super cuious) in which you could create talisman that summoned a familiar. Depending on the wood you used, skill in carving, skill in Arcane Lore and your current Circle within your guild you received a variety of pets, from a turtle or a squirl to a Reaver and there were rumors that you could even receive a dragon hatchling.
Now, that said, I really like Mogura and Zeraphs idea about required items. The only thing that worries me is: will this way of doing it help create a virtual economy in the world or will it make a lot of characters doing a quest and trying to find \'that special set of items\' so they can have the \"uber-f4m-0f-m1gh7\".
I, personaly like the thought of having a buddy to pack some of my items on while I am hunting for those herbs, and I would love to be able to buy one from an animal trainer. But if anyone can get one and anyone can use one than there are going to be a lot of people \'abusing\' the system.
I\'m not trying to throw water on your fire, I just want the economy aspect to be considered while we continue the discussion.
Perhaps animal trainers can be the only ones that can sell pets and can have the easiest times catching/raising them and training them. While the rest of us can use them for different purposes depending on our skill with them.
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I think animals will become overly abused, but I think if you limit the number of familiars they can control. It will help a lot. For example: normal people can control 1 familiar per 10 levels (so a level 26 pally can have like a wolf and a eagle), mages can control 2 of the same type per 10 levels (a level 30 mage can use 2 snakes 2 eagles and 2 wolves, and animal trainers can control 2 every 5 levels ( so at level 15 he can choose from 6 animals).
also too give animal trainers an advantage you can have it so if your not an animal trainer, controlling multiple kinds of animals may cause conflicts between species (eagle sees snake getting more attention means eagle eats snake) and also the level of the creature cant exceed a certain amount witch is dependent on the players level (example if its 25% of level than a level 20 pally cant control over a level 5 critter)
I love the idea about the bottled animals and the ability to mix and match them. I seriously hope it gets put in (Mix four parts cute little fuzzy bunny, two parts special dust, three parts special sauce, and four parts lion = cute little fuzzy bunny with lion claws and teeth, which will rend any whom come to close to it).
All numbers and statistics were used for examples and don?t mean that that is what I want them to be.
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ok i didnt read too much of it but heres my ideas of how taming and capturing should work
ok for starters
1. capture a monster or animal
2. tame and train the monster/animal
3. give it commands (such as defend master, defend player, defend another pet, attack mob, neutral or dont attack)
4. train it some more to make it stronger
5. some monsters/animals hate being controled and need to be retamed again
kinda like that
and for other things i think being able to capture any monster would be cool, so like some ppl could capture a spell caster monster of any kind (if its humanoid its considered a slave but its still a pet)
and being able to improve your pets in many ways would be cool too, such as being able to teach them certain things, teaching some magic-less monsters only basic spells (lvl 1-type spells and healing magic)
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If you\'re not going to read what other people have contributed, can you think of a good reason why they would read what you have to say?
I\'m pretty sure that most of what you said has been covered by the threads linked to in the original post, or is at least implied by the whole idea of animal training.
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Pets will most likely be non-speaking NPC\'s that will either give you combat bonuses, or be a meat shield. Any attempt to make them talk, give advice, scout, or deliver messages will result in some buggy behavior that will make them more of a liability than an asset.
Personally I find a non combat pet to be more of a lag generating device than anything.
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I believe that PS shouldn\'t rotate around combat only so I definitely would like to see pets being useful in other ways than directly fighting monsters.
A few examples out of the top of my head ...
A small type of bird to explore areas where you couldn\'t get normally.
The larger flying creatures that are already planned as transportation.
A mole type creature to help miners dig.
Firebreathing animals for helping out blacksmiths.
Magical creatures .. some type of creature covered with crystal shards for example which could be used to focus your spells on to give them a longer reach or more potency.
Or a magical creature envelopped in mana, represented by a dense blue fog where the caster could draw additional mana from.
A type of loyal doglike creature to protect your character when harassed by duelists.
And of course a variety of larger more sturdy creatures to be used as mounts or transportation of goods.
As well as combinations of two types. Perhaps animal trainers could also become breeders and by breeding with the right two types one could get a crosstype which contained both traits. Of course within limits, not that you can just cross anything with anything. But I think it would be interesting to create some creatures you couldn\'t catch in the wild. You could only breed them, which would be a very hard thing to do, making these creatures extremely rare and expensive.
Chance would play a major role in succesfully breeding them as well as picking the right parental creatures, optimal circumstances, etc. and of course having a high enough breeding/animal training skill
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i like the idea but:
POKEMON!
(aargh)
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I love the idea of a familiar in any form :) To have a pet that helps you find stuff would be cool or a creature you train and have i t fight and exually have it winning from people while you couldn\'t win a fight if your life depended on it becuase you don\'t have a single skill trained for it ;)
Anyhow besides what the familiar can do there also seem to be different ways for the familiar to look or be connected to the person in question. They could be animals trained by the character after catching it. You can have a kind of fearie or genie that you magicly control and can increase strengths or skills by giving it magical items or dust or something.
Latest there is also the summoned optionm where you have a spell that summons a creature and as you increase your skill it\'s options increase aswell and perhaps you even start summoning other creatures as your levels increase.
Just recapping the ideas I saw laying around seeing so many ideas without some realizing that they are talking about different ideas perhaps ;)