PlaneShift
Gameplay => Newbie Help (Start Here) => Guides and Tutorials => Topic started by: drah on March 28, 2007, 10:04:24 am
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Learning Metallurgy
To smelt ores you will need the "Working with Stock" book in the "Mind" slot (in your inventory window).
The book is available (in quests) from NPCs you would expect to work with stock.
Before you can make steel, you will need to raise your metallurgy to level 5.
To raise your metallurgy level to 5, you will first need to make iron stock.
Making Iron Stock & Raising Metallurgy To Level 5
To create an iron stock, you need to smelt 10 iron ores (in the furnace) into molten iron.
Then place the 10 molten iron into the stock cast. This will produce one iron stock.
You can then smelt the iron stock back in to 10 molten iron and repeat the process to gain experience.
Making Steel Stock
To make steel you will need iron and coal in 8:2 or 9:1 ratio respectively.
Place your 9 ( or 8 ) iron and 1 (or 2) coal in the furnace, in 2 seperate slots.
Close the window, right click on the furnace, then hit the "Combine" button.
This will create molten steel which you can put in the stock cast to make steel-stock.
Making Blades & Handles from Steel Stock
To make blades you will need a smith hammer and a Book of Blades, again, with the book in the "mind" slot.
The book is available (in a quest) from Harnquist.
The amounts required to create different items from stock are as follows:
1 = Knife Handle
2 = Sword Handle
4 = Dagger Blade
6 = Short Sword Blade
8 = Long Sword Blade
Go to the forge and heat the stock until it's status changes to "Heated".
With the hammer in one hand and the heated stock in the other, go to the anvil and click 'Use".
Unless it's a handle you've made, take your "Alpha" blade to the forge and heat to "Red Hot"
Take the blade to the quench tank, where you will make it into a "Brittle Blade".
Take it back to the forge and heat the blade to a "Superheated Dull Blade".
Take it back to the quench tank, where you will then have a "Dull Blade".
With the "Dull Blade" in hand, go to the sharpening stone and hit "Use".
Combining Blade & Handle
Place the sharpened blade and the handle on the smith's table (in the slots - same as with the furnace, etc.).
Close window, right-click on table, then hit "Combine".
Your sword/dagger/etc will now be created.
Gold, Bronze, Silver
I'm not sure on some levels required but will try to find them and update this post in future. In addition to steel, you can also make gold, silver and bronze stock. For gold stock you need 5 gold ores per stock and a metallurgy level of 30. For bronze stock, you use a combination of 7:3 (or 8:2) of Copper:Zinc.
I can only hope this guide isn't seen as too spoiler-ish that it gets deleted because how-to-make-steel is one of the most frequent questions I've come across in-game lately. If there are/were/are-going-to-be books covering these subjects in-game in future, then I apologize. If a few edits will save it... be my guest!!
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Wouldnt it be copper and tin for bronze?
Anywho, this does seem a little spoiler-ish to me. Especially considering the vague nature of the original crafting guide, kinda think its vague for a reason.
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What would you change to make it vague enough not to be too much of a spoiler?
Removing the numbers in the ratios and instead refer to them as fractions??... or... names-of-approximate-skill-levels rather than actual metallurgy-stats ??
And.. yes.. copper and tin was what i thought made bronze too, which is why i think something like this helps (though obviously for some people... helps TOO much!)
I'd like to give a more comprehensive guide than that which already exists... but obviously not to the point of screwing the learning-"fun" up for people.
But until there are books that represent these facts/stats verbosely, the only thing people can do is bug others for the information.
Maybe if I did something more like...
"Beginners can make iron stock, it's simply a case of smelting iron and placing the correct amount of molten iron into a single slot in the stock-cast.... When you advance from being a beginner, you'll be able to make steel... you'll need to mix iron ore and coal... just a couple of pieces of coal at most, probably a fifth or less than the amount of iron ore in the overall mixture... advancing considerably beyond this allows you to make gold ingots..." (etc)..
be better? :)
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I think the example that you make at the bottom of your post seems more appropriate.
Really its copper and Zinc in game to make bronze? This must be a bug. Especially as an NPC refers to copper and tin at some point (or so I hear).
Maybe its best just to leave it as it is for the moment and see what the Mod squad has to say about it. Maybe even report it yourself as a display of good will ;)
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Personally I would definitely change the layout and only give people a general idea of what to do. Try to make it like your character wrote a book about smithing?
As for the copper + zinc thing .. I agree, tin makes a lot more sense. Copper and zinc gives an inferior type of bronze (=brass), definitely not suited for crafting tools or weapons.
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@Idoru ... I can't .. I'm told that it "doesn't make sense" reporting my own posts :)
Maybe as a replacement....
Learning Metallurgy
To smelt ores you will need to have the teachings of the "Working with Stock" book in "Mind".
The book is available from those you'd expect to work with stock.
Before you can make steel, you will need to raise your smelting capabilities to what I'll call "novice" level.
To raise your metallurgy level to the "novice" level, you will first need to make iron stock.
Making Iron Stock & Raising Metallurgy To Level "Novice"
To create an iron stock, you need to smelt iron ores (in the furnace) into molten iron.
Then place a specific number of molten iron (which is what the iron ores get turned into in the furnace!!) into the stock cast. This will produce one iron stock. You can then smelt the iron stock back in to molten iron and repeat the process to gain experience.
Making Steel Stock
To make steel you will need iron and coal, roughly 1 part coal to 4 parts iron ore. (hint: you need more than 5 parts in total to make stock with iron or steel.. do the math!!)
Place your iron and coal in the furnace [in 2 seperate slots].
[Close the window, right click on the furnace, then hit the "Combine" button.]
This will create molten steel which you can put in the stock cast to make steel-stock.
Making Blades & Handles from Steel Stock
To make blades you will need a smith hammer and a Book of Blades, again, with the teaching of the book in "mind".
The book is available (in a quest) from one of the smithies.
The amounts required to create different items from stock are 1,2,4,6 and 8... you can figure out what each amount makes for yourself!!
Go to the forge and heat the stock until it's "Heated".
With the hammer in one hand and the heated stock in the other, go to the anvil and "use" it.
Unless it's a handle you've made [from 1 or 2 stocks], take your "Alpha blade" to the forge and heat until it is "Red Hot"
Take the blade to the quench tank, where you will make it into a "Brittle Blade".
Take it back to the forge and heat the blade until it is a "Superheated Dull Blade".
Take it back to the quench tank, where you will then make it into a "Dull Blade".
With the "Dull Blade" in hand, go to the sharpening stone and "use" it.
Combining Blade & Handle
Place the sharpened blade and the handle on the smith's table [in the slots - same as with the furnace, etc.]).
[Close window, right-click on table, then hit "Combine".]
Your sword/dagger/etc will now be created.
Gold, Bronze, Silver
In addition to steel, you can also make gold, silver and bronze stock (and ingots!). For gold stock you need a certain amount of gold ores per stock (less than required with steel/iron) and an "advanced" understanding of metallurgy ("intermediate" understanding to make gold ingots). For bronze stock, you use a combination of 7 to 3 parts (or 4 to one part) of Copper and Tin.
Also, at "intermediate" level you can turn Silver ores into stock. At "advanced" you can make gold stock!!! (both require the same amount of molten material!!)
Thanks to the Wandering Djinn for some advice via PMs too (re: update on copper/tin fix and the amount/level for silver, though obviously I'll keep it vague now!). :)
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Talad was looking at this thread earlier, and as he made no changes nor replies, I assume that this guide gets the green flag :) Personally I too find it strange that if no other player agrees to help you figure things out in the game, it becomes a trial-and-error deal right now.
Good work, Drah!
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good guide yet may i enquire why talad hasnt made any changes to this guide but got mines on spoilers for glyph combos and not this one for combos of different stock ect just a thought.
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Allive: Because you can combine glyphs yourself without wasting glyphs. There is a Research function, after all, and it still needs to have a use in the game. If you eliminate researching, an actual feature of the game, you're taking away its need to be there.
However if you use incorrect combinations of stocks, I believe they will turn into sludge or dust or something similar - correct me if I'm wrong. So in this case experimentation would hurt you more.
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Actually incorrect ratios gets a message that you do not have the right amounts to do anything useful.
If you insist on leaving them there they may turn to dust but plenty of time to remove them.
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Ok I have a question, I followed the intruction on how to make iron stock but everytime I place 10 molten iron into the stock cast it says not the right number to make anything usesful, what gives? ??? I also can't increase my skill in metallurgy because I can't cast stock. I have already got the training bar green and red so that is not the problem, so could someone place help me out?
Thanks in advance on this issue!
Nevermind I finally figured it out on my own, didn't know I have to put the book in the mind slot but thanks for your guide it does help!
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The very first sentence in the original post on this thread says 'to smelt ores you need to have the *working with stocks* book equipped into the *mind* slot of your inventory window. I guess you missed that,lol. :)
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I find that making tin stock might be easier than iron stock to start training metallurgy. While tin is a bit further from a forge than iron, it is way easier to mine. I get one tin out of 2 digs, but I get about one iron out of 5 digs (with a mining skill of 4). I don't know up to which level I can get practise making tin stock, but I personally prefer it.
One more thing: at level 0, the "working with stock" book does not tell you which stock you can make. A small bug, but it says I could only melt steel and bronze ingots, cast them back into ingots and melt tin. I never mentioned I could make iron stocks. Since I did not know that and none of the things mentioned in the book sais "with skill", I thought I would get practise melting steel ingots and casting them back into ingots. I wasted a lot of time trying to figure out how to get practise points. As soon as I got level 1, it said I could make iron, tin and copper stock (zinc a few levels later).
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Just an update:
Generally, this guide is accurate. Some of the numbers are changed, and ingots may be used to make some of the smaller items (sword handles, for example). You can easily find out the changes through experiementation.
Tin and copper make bronze, and zinc and copper also can make bronze.
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Since it's apparently okay to post required amounts of steel stocks/ingots. here an update.
Swordmaking
2 steel ingots - a sword handle
5 steel ingots - a knife blade
8 steel ingots - a dagger blade
1 steel stock - a sabre blade
2 steel stock - a sword sword blade
3 steel stock - a longsword blade
4 steel stock - a claymore blade
Note: Knife handles can currently only be bought from Trasok or Harnquist.
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Axemaking
1 steel stock - a small battle axe blade
2 steel stock - a battle axe blade
3 steel stock - a reinforced axe blade
4 steel stock - a reinforced battle axe blade
5 and higher - Unknown, as we 'don't have the right tools' yet.
Note: The handles for axes can currently only be bought from Trasok.
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I have read in other threads that eventually the "slash" rating and other stats may be done away with. I think that for crafted weapons, these could be replaced in a way that would make the crafted weapons much more interesting.....
Upon completion of a weapon, the weaponsmith should be able to name the sword. Before it is finished, the player should be able to name it "Stormbringer", "Clacker Whacker", or whatever....this would make the swords truly unique and add flavor.
Also, it would be neat if handcrafted weapons were "stamped", so that the player that created the sword would have his name on it, so any other player inspecting the sword would see who created it......just as artists and craftsmen in the real world initial, sign, or otherwise make their mark on their creations.
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And the first person to name their sword 'N00b Pwnzor' will be shot.
I'm not so sure about names of 'normal' swords. If things were able to be enchanted whilst crafting, then perhaps, but not of the things made today.
And I thought crafted items did have the names on them; I still know who crafted my swords, as it says the name and guild they're in.
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And the first person to name their sword 'N00b Pwnzor' will be shot.
I'm not so sure about names of 'normal' swords. If things were able to be enchanted whilst crafting, then perhaps, but not of the things made today.
And I thought crafted items did have the names on them; I still know who crafted my swords, as it says the name and guild they're in.
Yes, I did not know that at the time I posted, the swords have the crafter's name on it.
I agree that names for swords should be reserved for very special swords....perhaps they need some sort of enchantment on them..or maybe the "naming" is something that has to be considered while making the sword, if you want it to have a name, and require extra work.
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??? i have a question where can i find the books i know it's from a quest but which quest
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??? i have a question where can i find the books i know it's from a quest but which quest
We have policies on the forum that will keep us from telling you that, you could try asking ingame.
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ok thk i thing... :\
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Help?
Read guide. Spent 4+ hours in game trying to get to work... including asking for help from everyone ingame I could find, as well as irc.
I have the 'book of blades' in mind...
Trained on swordmaking and blacksmithing. Both are still 0, but I can not get practice.. so will not rise...
tried doing all sorts of quantities.. no luck. all 'heated'/ but when take to anvil, says I do not have skill to do this, whether trying to make sword handle, or sword. tried short sword and sabre... no matter what I do can not get swordmaking or blacksmithing to rise... nor can I make swords... quality over 100...
please look me up ingame and help me? or reply here... I will check back later....
I want to do some crafting... please help.. esp if you remember what you had to do to get to level 1... a lot of people have told me that I have to be level 1 to do that... but can not tell me how to get to level one.... since I cannot use anvil.
???
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The quantities in this guide are outdated and no longer apply. Try using lower quantities and even ingots and see if you can do something with those. ;)
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Help?
Read guide. Spent 4+ hours in game trying to get to work... including asking for help from everyone ingame I could find, as well as irc.
I have the 'book of blades' in mind...
Trained on swordmaking and blacksmithing. Both are still 0, but I can not get practice.. so will not rise...
tried doing all sorts of quantities.. no luck. all 'heated'/ but when take to anvil, says I do not have skill to do this, whether trying to make sword handle, or sword. tried short sword and sabre... no matter what I do can not get swordmaking or blacksmithing to rise... nor can I make swords... quality over 100...
please look me up ingame and help me? or reply here... I will check back later....
I want to do some crafting... please help.. esp if you remember what you had to do to get to level 1... a lot of people have told me that I have to be level 1 to do that... but can not tell me how to get to level one.... since I cannot use anvil.
???
Are you making stock?
That will help with practice points. If not, continue to make ignots and remember to buy training.
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I have the 'book of blades' in mind...
Trained on swordmaking and blacksmithing. Both are still 0, but I can not get practice.. so will not rise...
Are you making stock?
That will help with practice points. If not, continue to make ignots and remember to buy training.
Negative potatoe, he is wanting to train these skills :) not mettallurgy. he has to make blades parts, not stocks or ingots ;) though you need ingots and stocks to make them :D
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Well, I realize that you want us to figure out this stuff "in game", but there is a master blacksmith standing a few feet away at all times during the day. Wouldn't it make sense that since he's nice enough to let me use all his stuff, that he might not just stand there and laugh at me wasting all my materials? Couldn't we just ask him what the current recipes are? At the very least sell us a book that has the current recipes in it and instructions in it. At least for the beginning stuff. He can hold his secrets for the really good stuff.
Takes time to put it all in, I know, but just a thought that would keep within the spirit of the game.
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you seem to never had open your Working with Stocks Book Mustang :lol: (right click on it to get the recipes)
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Oops. :) Yes, I figured that out a while ago, but it doesn't tell me a lot of stuff either. I've settled down a bit since I posted that too. ::)
I only have the book though because someone was nice enough to give me one. I have still to figure out how to get it in game, and I've done a couple of the blacksmiths quests. I know it's a quest, but I seem to be stuck in a chicken and egg situation. Without the book, I wouldn't have been able to increase my metalurgy, but he wants me to do stuff that requires higher skill in metalurgy than I seem to be able to get on my own. Only way I see to increase metalurgy is by working with stock, and only way to work with stock is to have the book.
Anyway, I'm sure there is an in-game solution and I have just missed it. Everyone else seems to have done it, though I did find it strange that the person who gave me the book said they had two. I never asked, but they might have gotten two the same way I will, one by gift and one by quest, implying there may be a chicken-egg problem?
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As far as I know those quests do not require you to do any smelting yourself in order to complete. I am pretty sure I never did but that was back when it was new and exciting.... ::|
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As far as I know those quests do not require you to do any smelting yourself in order to complete. I am pretty sure I never did but that was back when it was new and exciting.... ::|
Right now there is no check to make sure the player got the requested items if they are not "quest items", so you can get ulber parts from the local merchant or a sword from a player in the arena the npc has no idea if you got them or not.
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The only problem I see here... is that after the "player wipe"... how are you supposed to get stocks to complete the quest to get to book to make the stocks? I agree there is a definite chicken and egg problem if everyone starts from scratch.
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Eh? The book is achieved on completing a quest that involves bringing a certain number of a certain ore, not one that involves bringing a certain number of stock of a certain metal ;)
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yeah, but...
Just a item of interest (I hope). Lately ingame, people have been complaining that harnquist gives the quests out of order.
now, before you hit the reply, let me explain. they want to work with stock. they ask ingame, they get told to keep doing quests for harnquist, but then he gives the swordmaking one before the working with stock one. I confirmed this with 2 alts I played a bit in the may-june period... So I suggest another way they can get the working with stock book. but a lot of the guilds and "old-timers" still tell them to go to harnquist. One person told me they did the working with Tin 3 times.. and still no working with stock book.. so maybe he just does not give it anymore?
anyways, be aware.
ME
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Harnquist gives out several quests, at least 5 of them, and he doesn't give them in any order. So if you need the book, don't accept the quest given unless it's the one you need. I once had to bug him for about 5 minutes before he gave me the right quest. Same with Trasok. It would be nice if the sword- (and axe-) making quests were dependent on having completed either one of the stock-making quests, but things are the way they are, and at least you can't lock yourself out unless you absolutely don't talk to any other players.
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So if you need the book, don't accept the quest given unless it's the one you need. I once had to bug him for about 5 minutes before he gave me the right quest.
Or just interact with some other players and buy the needed stocks from them...;)
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I will keep this short.
In reply to:So if you need the book, don't accept the quest given unless it's the one you need. I once had to bug him for about 5 minutes before he gave me the right quest.
Or just interact with some other players and buy the needed stocks from them...;)
I said earlier:now, before you hit the reply, let me explain. they want to work with stock. they ask ingame, they get told to keep doing quests for harnquist, but then he gives the swordmaking one before the working with stock one. I confirmed this with 2 alts I played a bit in the may-june period...
If you NEED the book, and you do not know to either get it another way, or to decline quests (which I did not think of, thanks Bragan) then you end up doing the the "wrong" ones over and over. and after getting Harnquist 30 apples, you can see someone could be frustrated? No?
Aiwendil, Not sure if you are following the discussion, but the problem exists only when advice like yours is meted out. If the Newbs were not told by others that (NPC) gives 'quest a', then 'quest b', and then 'quest c', and then when it does not work that way, tell them to "just buy stocks and come back later for the right one", they would not be doing just that. (where would they get this information, if not from others?)
But what about when it no longer works like that?
I played alts to confirm this, only because I could not understand why so many people were getting upset with it Ingame.
So I ask, when helping new players, make yourselves available for follow up, and LISTEN to what they are saying. You have no idea how many people seem to be on the point of quiting because the "instructions" they were giving were making them try for DAYS to get the book, with no success. I am sure (sure hoping!) that is no one's intent.
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I will keep this short.
If you NEED the book, and you do not know to either get it another way, or to decline quests (which I did not think of, thanks Bragan) then you end up doing the the "wrong" ones over and over. and after getting Harnquist 30 apples, you can see someone could be frustrated? No?
Aiwendil, Not sure if you are following the discussion, but the problem exists only when advice like yours is meted out. If the Newbs were not told by others that (NPC) gives 'quest a', then 'quest b', and then 'quest c', and then when it does not work that way, tell them to "just buy stocks and come back later for the right one", they would not be doing just that. (where would they get this information, if not from others?)
But what about when it no longer works like that?
I played alts to confirm this, only because I could not understand why so many people were getting upset with it Ingame.
So I ask, when helping new players, make yourselves available for follow up, and LISTEN to what they are saying. You have no idea how many people seem to be on the point of quiting because the "instructions" they were giving were making them try for DAYS to get the book, with no success. I am sure (sure hoping!) that is no one's intent.
Since I started playing PS you always got the quests from Harnquist in random order. My point is just that this isn't that bad. As far as I understand you, your problem is that you can do the quests only completely on your own when you do them in the right order. But I don't think every character should be able to do all quests on his own. And if I remember correctly Trasok or Harnquist even tell you in one quests that they don't matter where you get the material they need from ;). So for me these quests are a nice way to improve players interactions. I see your point, that it can be a bit frustrating for a new player to accept a quest, trying to find the solution for some days just to be told by another player then that he needs another quests first or buy the needed material form someone else. But I don't think it's unrealistic that someone who wants to learn a profession has to do some tasks for which he need the help of others. Or another example: If a blacksmith, who only has enough fighting skills to show his customers his weapons, needs to obtain a heart of a great, fluffy creature, which surely would kill him, I guess nobody would blame the blacksmith if he asks a professional hunter to get the heart for him. So I don't see a problem with quests that are only completeable for a player with the help of others.
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close.... real close.
my "problem" (your word, not mine, I prefer "point" is that many people in game are saying one thing to the new players, namely that he gives them in order, and not telling other options for getting the book, (notice I am not saying WHY they are doing this. I would have to be psychic, but it may be because they were told, or it worked that way for them, or whatever, it does not matter why they are saying it)
BTW, note my posts. they (the quests) are not just out of order... you can get the apple, the tin ore the working with sword, then the apple again, over and over, without getting the WWS one.... that is not out of order, but random, as some have said here already. Big difference. They complain it is out of order, only if they were told there was an order. Stop and think about this point. It matters. If I told you he gives them out randomly, or told you nothing, would you complain that they were "not in order"?
So the newbie gets frustrated and quits. so: my "problem" (again I prefer my "point") is:
If you are going to offer advice to a new player, either put in a qualifier ("I think you can get one from 'X', let me or someone know if that does not work for you") OR understand the new player will assume it is broken if the wise sage advice turns out not exactly right, and I when I then try to help, they assume I am screwing with them.
"You jerk, I know he gives the book, I was told it by someone much more sure than you. that's it, I give up"
so... unless you are really sure, perhaps help in a way that won't discourage? that is my point.
and yes, they should be more patient... but I can not change their patience, can I?
over 500,000 accounts and less than 200 players at any one time. I think we all want this to be successful.
and if you do not like my advice, ignore it. I am not god, a parent of yours, or the leader of this game or forum. It is advice, take it or not.
there, that is all, thanks for listening :) I could make this more clear, perhaps, but if you care enough to read it, you will understand. and If you do not care, no amount of explaining will matter, so I will close this here.
B->
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Just ran into this... apple, tin, sword... wait what? there should be a "qualifier" in order to get a specific quest... Harnquist should not ask if you want to learn to make swords if you have not completed the several others before it... thats my problem now, i accepted the sword quest and only now after reading this thread see that I got nailed because I did not know any better.
I had a friend offer me the book (he had an extra) but I declined because I would rather learn from doing it... but when there is a case like this, this needs to be in words "CAUTION: DO NOT ACCEPT ANY QUESTS EXCEPT THE APPLE, TIN AND (whatever one gives you the book)
AND now I cannot discard it because "it can only be done once"... so I am s*****d until someone gives me a book so i can finish the quest...... and the friend I mentioned will not be back online for at least 30-60 days
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Find me in-game and I will see what I can do to help you. I should be on in a couple of hours. PM me with your characters name.
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You could ask to borrow the book from someone, just long enough for you to progress in your quest. That is, if you really don't want to get the stocks from someone else.
It reminds me when I had to get a number of ulber parts. It took me a while to get them, bought from a hunting couple. But then... I couldn't carry them, eh eh.
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thanks for the help, I had someone in IRC help out and got that quest taken care of... then the next quest I did for Harnquist was the one needed to make the ignots and such...