PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Eyantar on March 22, 2010, 03:35:28 am
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PS does not have much IG/RP Crime or Police (yes theres GMs) It came to my attention that adding in more crimes to disobey and a few ideas for Consequences
Well lets start with Crimes to Disobey:
1) Robbery in houses, my idea is to not rob guild houses or player houses but to rob empty NPC houses (so basicly a house becomes an NPC) a robber goes to the NPC house lock-picks his way in steals everything and then leaves an in another while it gets re-furbished but with different loot inside (a lot like killing a mob) then always the better trained you are at whatever it is you have to train you can lock-pick our way into larger and more valuable houses with more valuable items inside. to do with Consequences a guard is patrolling the streets and may find him, yes that would b VERY hard to programme but this is a wish list. And then when the guard finds him he goes to Jail or court or pays a fine or slays the guard and then gets hunted by Octarchy guards which is rather fun being a bandit!
2) Pickpocketing. you could pickpocket NPC not players as I do not want to make a fuss about that. and then a guard may catch you and then you pay the consequences.
3) Burglering shops, so robbing a shop getting good loot, shop keeper may find out may not, guards hunt you down you pay the consequences.
4) I don't know of anything else
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technically all types of crimes should be put in ,murder while somone is sleeping, theft like you said, weapons in hydlaa, going over the speed limit XDD
asulting a guard...
asulting trogdar >.>
stuff like that
we need people who will do that, and we need some normal players who are responsible enough to take on a roll as guards who can actually jail people [but the freazing people from half a mile away to catch em seems to much like godmodding to be good for rp use :\ i highly suggest getting rid of that, just put a smaller spell range on the jailing thing....]
[ive seen people get jailed, ive even been jailed once....it looks like crystal way...anyways..............]
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the only way crime will happen is in the absence of law, especially in a game like this where guards have awesome pimp staffs infused with teletranquiporting magics. since criminals have no chance if caught, they take their crime outside cities and octarchy jurisdiction, so it's not really even crime. it may not sound logical, but in a virtual roleplaying game, crime exists because of crime fighters. in real life, it's the opposite. but ps isn't real so it's all for the thrill rather than survival. there's no thrill in knowing you're going to be punished no matter what. however, that's if the guards will find out. if they don't, player characters can't actually enforce anything, so a criminal could do anything he wanted. after a while, that gets old. there has to be an element of risk and gamble; otherwise, there's no point to crime (unless you're a very good roleplayer with victims who are also good roleplayers).
having all these new abilities like pickpocketing and breaking and entering aren't going to create more crime. someone will try, someone else will get pissed, and the devs will stonewall crime. because it's offensive or some crap like that. ::)
only way i can see crime working is if gm guards are replaced by player guards with limited power (meaning no pimp staffs). there'd be room for griefing, but that's why we have real gms, isn't it?
i'd type more but i'm lazy and gtg
also, i think i missed like half your post... X-/
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*yawn* just play GTA if you want to kill people.
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I have no qualms really, but criminals better be ready to bear consequences. An often nasty, brutish, short and often solitary life in the face of a powerful sovereign Octarchal administration.
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I agree that it might be nice if the game mechanics offered a path for criminals but I wonder how well this would work when the criminal reaches max levels.
At level 100 in lockpicking with a +20 agi sword in each hand, will I have free access to your guild houses if I log in during off peak hours ?
Would that sort of gaming have the effect of reducing the use of guildhouses ?
If it become a known fact that guildhouse are insucure because some players can pick anything then people start
Using alts, guild houses become bare meeting places etc...
Or if I and 30 other players have similar maxed skill in pickpocketing, how might that change game play ?
Would people keep their stuff in logged off alts ?
I think a person who plays a theif would want his character's skills to be just as
Strong as your maxed duelist's or you maxed mage.
The nice thing about roleplaying theft is that there is more freedom then the mechanics can provide and of course less hurt feelings in the case of player vs player theft.
Its an interesting idea though.
I recall seeing a scene in a movie where a gang of vagabond
kids practice pick pocketing each other in an alley.
I would expect such thieving skills to be developed in a similar way.
Perhaps have a camp banished rogue that let's you try to pick pocket him and provides
Theoretical training. Same for lock picking. I would thing that you would take a chest somewhere and practice on that.
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PS does not have much IG/RP Crime or Police (yes theres GMs) It came to my attention that adding in more crimes to disobey and a few ideas for Consequences
Well lets start with Crimes to Disobey:
1) Robbery in houses, my idea is to not rob guild houses or player houses but to rob empty NPC houses (so basicly a house becomes an NPC) a robber goes to the NPC house lock-picks his way in steals everything and then leaves an in another while it gets re-furbished but with different loot inside (a lot like killing a mob) then always the better trained you are at whatever it is you have to train you can lock-pick our way into larger and more valuable houses with more valuable items inside. to do with Consequences a guard is patrolling the streets and may find him, yes that would b VERY hard to programme but this is a wish list. And then when the guard finds him he goes to Jail or court or pays a fine or slays the guard and then gets hunted by Octarchy guards which is rather fun being a bandit!
2) Pickpocketing. you could pickpocket NPC not players as I do not want to make a fuss about that. and then a guard may catch you and then you pay the consequences.
3) Burglering shops, so robbing a shop getting good loot, shop keeper may find out may not, guards hunt you down you pay the consequences.
4) I don't know of anything else
Doesn't have too much IG / RP crime? What's the name of your IG character, you have obviously just been unlucky.
1) PS is a medieval setting, there are no police, there is the mob or self appointed groups. There are people who are willing to do things and those that just sit there moaning and being victims. In this time, if a crime is committed against you, if is up to you to find the guilty person, or to employ someone to do it for you.
2) Pickpocketing should be with players, then RP the consequences with them. A couple of roleplayers will make some fun with that.
3) Burgling shops would be fun, but the shop keeper and the thief must be prepared to RP the consequense, which means if the thief gets away, they must be suitably visible for the shop keeper (or an agent of the shop keeper) to find and RP some more.
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I have no qualms really, but criminals better be ready to bear consequences. An often nasty, brutish, short and often solitary life in the face of a powerful sovereign Octarchal administration.
consequences i understand, but come on now, magical staffs letting guards freaze sombody from anywhere they want to catch em and throw em in jail
thats seriously just sounding like godmodding to me
its not fair and is the reason crime doesnt even hardly exist...
the devs keep saying they want people to be a variety of things, cook, theif, hero, whatever..but how can they support theft, if they just let gm's godmod their way to locking up criminals...
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It isn't like guards are running around freezing people every day. Heck my guard character has never frozen a criminal yet. There is a lot of crime going on that the guards aren't doing anything about.
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Ummmm....
well to most of you
This idea is that guards (NPCs) will be able to walk around hydlaa and freeze people if they do wrong, its an idea I got off a game called Oblivion and that if you are maxed lockpicking and higher level than the guards you have guards trying to kill you all day long in that town or eventually the town gets annoyed and gets higher and higher and higher leveled guards onto you... Mogweh I am Eyantar I own a shop.
So what I am saying is that most of this is Game mechanics that a guard will be patroling the streets (walking up and down) and then when someone in his rang does a crime he runs to the person and freezes them and basicly a box will pop up asking you if you want to pay tria, go to jail, or fight the guard and have loads of other guards coming onto you.
this is for the future or lets say beyond the future. :)
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mogweh, police existed in medieval times... they're just weren't called police. ever heard of constables? that's where they originated. police have always existed in some way or another.
It isn't like guards are running around freezing people every day. Heck my guard character has never frozen a criminal yet. There is a lot of crime going on that the guards aren't doing anything about.
and that means what? either hydlaa is a cesspool of crime or a utopia with zero crime rate, depending on your shift? gms aren't even supposed to rp. imo gms should just do their jobs and quit playing around. the occasional event is okay, but everything else is goofing off. rant rant rant!
anyway, i think crime will only work if guards are players. the criminals are players, and so should the crimefighters be. gms vs players doesn't work. needs balance.
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Sarras where did you ever get the idea that GMs aren't suppose to RP? True as our GM characters we don't RP but GMs also have Guard alts and event alts which we use specifically for RP reasons. One of the key things w look for in a GM is very good RP skill now. I have been in a situation where the guards have physically chased after a player character in an attempt to get close enough to reasonable cast a freeze spell. In that case the player character was able to get away.
The smarter criminals that I have seen either do their illegal activities totally outside of Hydlaa, like a thief who preys on people who happen along on the roads, or they lead their victims outside of Hydlaa to commit the crime. In both cases the thieves know their chances of getting caught are much less outside the city walls due to the lack of guards in the wilds. On the other hand I have seen lots of stupid criminals that IC'ly should have ended up in jail because they have done really dumb things like fight and kill someone in Kada's where there are two guards stationed just outside the door. REmember people should be RP'ing that the NPC guards aren't frozen in place and will come in to Kadas if they hear a fight going on in there.
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@sarras gm's ARE supposed to rp as sarva said, thats the whole point of their guard alts and yadda yadda
but the point is they shouldnt freaze you halfway across town, which is what most guards always do :\
only once i have ever been chased by a guard, i ran into the arena and got away...
that was the only guard i think is actually doing their job fairly...
and at Eyeantar, saying somthing is from a diffrent game like oblivion or somthing, is a great way to not get it implemented
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I don't think that the game mechanics allow the implementation of crimes and guards without some extend of godmode. At the moment have the guards the power to cast a freeze spell what is quite questionable (and godmode imho). The contrary situation would be that a guard stands at the gate and a wanted person runs in... and through the guard.. and just doesn't care, because the guards won't be able to do anything. In this situation is the wanted person godmoding. As those are, who ignore the NPC-guards.
So it seems that the question is more to find a balance of how much godmoding is allowed to created a fair environment.
A short distance freeze seems to be the most fair right now to me.
Sen
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Problem is some dont roleplay, they pretend to be thieves and run out of town, if someone stops them, they ignoreit and continue running. :/ They do not roleplay
[edit:] oh and the fact that we need to challenge in order to attack
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I don't see a problem with a theif running away in order to evade being caught, they he/she/kra should definitely play out any consequences if caught. ( The chase is part of the fun )
Regarding guards and freezing:
An ordinary player with maxed BW could probably kill someone from across the plaza with flying stones. A guard who can freeze you from a similar distance isn't that much different. As long as they do so using only IC info and keep it realistic I don't really see a problem.
Regarding GM RP:
Some guards RP quite well. I recently had a run in with a few guards as Rigwyn and was accused of some pretty nasty things - all of which were quite true. :sorcerer: I even confessed in brackets in main right in front of them. Rig won the argument (ICly) and was let go \\o//. Perhaps the next time you see a guard wandering through town, try talking to them as you would any other character - same for other blue-label characters that you encounter.
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It isn't like guards are running around freezing people every day. Heck my guard character has never frozen a criminal yet. There is a lot of crime going on that the guards aren't doing anything about.
I guess it was Marathal then who froze me on BD road then? ;)
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It isn't like guards are running around freezing people every day. Heck my guard character has never frozen a criminal yet. There is a lot of crime going on that the guards aren't doing anything about.
I guess it was Marathal then who froze me on BD road then? ;)
My guard character wasn't on line so my statement above is correct :-*
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i really think gms should never be able to roleplay, at least not when they're doing the whole gm thing. i don't know how it works. but still, people have jobs, and they should do them. i'm a hardass about that. :P
guards do abuse their freeze power. i've heard/seen it too many times. it's reasonable within a couple meters of a perp, but across the city is godmoding, even just around the corner. compare those pimp staffs to taser guns. you can hit the perp from maybe 5m, but it's still unlikely since he'd be trying to escape.
if the criminal doesn't want to cooperate by rping, roleplayers can't do much about it. so, that's why i think players should have some guard abilities. sounds weird, but roleplay is very restricted in planeshift. i remember reading about the game and all the stuff your character is capable of doing, but it all seems like a lie now. players have no ability to amount to anything but average citizens... boooring
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i have a great idea here, instead of guards casting a spell for freazing, there should be a type of staff they can hit a player with that will freaze them, and they then talk or whatever, then there is a second staff they can hit someone with that will telepor t them to jail
that way not only gm alts can be guards, but they can recruit other people as guards as well...someone responsible of course..
and i disagree with sarass, gm's SHOULD be allowd to RP, since you CANT see the name above there head IC'ly they can simpoly change heir name and play as a person....so IC'ly there is no way they dont exist, they can just rp as diffrent people.
and personally id prefer it if more gm's could get hired and more gm events could go off, the events by them are prolly the funnest thing around lately...
especially since ulbers are way over powered
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i just meant gms shouldn't be able to rp during their shifts (if they have that). they can roleplay, just not on gm accounts. those should only be reserved for big events. really big events. like events that affect settings and the future of yliakum and such.
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if gm's couldnt rp on their shift, nobodywould want to be a gm, the whole point of being a gm is keeping people in order, and also adding to the environment, f the only things gm's could do is huge crap that adds to yliakums history, then they would never get to rp at all...the game is more focused on getting bugs fixed then furthering along the history,
its just not fair to say a gm cant help with the rp, some things gm's can do that normal players cant, thats somthing that we really need somtimes for RP.
so i have to disagree with sarras, and im sure most other people would disagree as well
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Just curious Sarras, what do you have against gm's rping ( when they are a guard or ble label character) ?
Obviouslu rping as a yellow label gm character makes no sense since they are ooc entities.. But the blue lable characters
Are in fact in character entities.
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when people have jobs, they do them. no goofing around. sure, you can have fun when you're not working, but when you are you should be working, not having fun. i don't like this idea that it's "unfair" for gms to be unable to roleplay. that's just childish. "creating a better environment" does not mean roleplaying. it means ridding of rulebreakers and pests on planeshift. they're moderators, not players. there's a huge difference.
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GMs who are moderating don't RP, but stay invisible. However, there are times when there is no work waiting and there are several GMs ingame. This could be one situation when GMs decide to leave the moderating work for a little and go on patrol as guard. Or try to catch someone who is wanted.
So, you should distinguish between guarding and moderating - and also distinguish doing events from those two. These tasks don't get mixed.
Durgrem
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I'll just point out that putting on events, which involve the GMs running characters and thus role playing those characters, is part of the job of the GM. So when a GM is role playing a character as part of an event, and an event can be everything from simply running a character who adds some local color to the game to some large complicated plot that rewards nice items to the involved players, they are doing their job per the job description of the GM position.
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Sarras really doesnt understand....
im friends with enough GM's to know for a fact
1 GM guard alts ARE SPECIFICALLY MADE FOR RP
2 as GM character, they have the ability to change nameds, they then usually have gm events, which are usually ALWAYS planned ahead of times
3 they can teleport, so obviously they can teleport and deal with any reports they get, when sombody reports sombody
which is why /report is so important,
4 somtimes GM's have to blend in as normal Chars. and rp with the people nearby when they have to spy on sombody who they think might be doing things they have to deal with. can be the best way to do things somtimes
5 Gm's have a priority to dealing with petitions, /reports, and ooc talk in main they come across, and other things as this, when they arnt seing this they can do as they please
6 trouble makers are NOT always causing trouble, so gm's dont always have work to do, like sarras is implying, and gm's have and always will have, the right to interact with other players
whats childish, sarras, is you trying to say a GM cant have any fun,
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We should put a stop to all these slackass gm's having fun when they should be sitting there silently observing and eh.. Making report and pie charts....
Christ, its not like this is a game or something. :)
Lighten up sarras ;)
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earowo, don't blow it out of proportion. i'm entitled to my own opinions. and nothing you can say will change them.
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Sarras, the only one who seems to be blowing anything even to proportion much less out of it is you.
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what the hell did you just say? lol
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what the hell did you just say? lol
Sarras, the only one who seems to be blowing anything even to proportion much less out of it is you.
that is what he said XD
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I would like to point out that all GM events have to be scripted and approved by a settings developer before it can be done. This is to ensure the consistency regarding to the overall settings and to prevent exploitation. Also it is the GM teams duty to ensure that moderation is taken care of even when events are held. Scripting and running events is a part of the job description for GMs.
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My idea is that GMs dont do the 'guarding' they do the other things like policing all the players chats and etc.
Sarras stay on topic.
Also please play Oblivion before posting you oviously dont understand what i am meaning :P
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Maybe stealing NPC'S Things could bring us big loads of money
Especially for crime makers and trouble makers
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mabey possible to steal from an npc, [not until they can actually turn on SIGHT (sight, not when you are just near)] and if they see you steal they can yell for guards [in main obviously, it wouldnt be effective in npc chat XD] and possibly attack you, them only being attackable if they attack you first, so as to not just keep killing an npc when other people are questing
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Also please play Oblivion before posting you oviously dont understand what i am meaning :P
wow, i read this a couple months ago and thought you were otr explaining that he was quoting some strange oblivion dialogue, so i dismissed it ;D
anyway, i have played oblivion
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I would like to point out that all GM events have to be scripted and approved by a settings developer before it can be done. This is to ensure the consistency regarding to the overall settings and to prevent exploitation. Also it is the GM teams duty to ensure that moderation is taken care of even when events are held. Scripting and running events is a part of the job description for GMs.
So that's why people complain about sluggishness here.
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Also please play Oblivion before posting you oviously dont understand what i am meaning :P
wow, i read this a couple months ago and thought you were otr explaining that he was quoting some strange oblivion dialogue, so i dismissed it ;D
anyway, i have played oblivion
and i've played marrowind, which is the game that came right before oblivion, they both use the exact same guard system btw :P
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This is a good idea, if well applied.
Players should be able (in a far away future) to rob NPCs. It could play a part in faction thingy too. The guard deal doesn't seem hard to program to me. Just give the action a percentage of being caught (i.e. a guard magically appears at your side and you simply consider he was on patrol) and your char gets thrown in the jail for a time. I'd make the loot usually very low and rarely huge: crime doesn't pay.
Pick-pocket on players would also be nice. With percentage for guard magically appearing too. No robbing items, just taking tria. That'd be fun.
If GM's don't want to bother with playing guard, make a script that throws people in jail when they initiate duels that end in a death. Give it a 10% chance for escape, if you have to or a variable percentage depending on the place (alley, tavern, plaza, etc.)
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This is a good idea, if well applied.
Just give the action a percentage of being caught (i.e. a guard magically appears at your side and you simply consider he was on patrol) and your char gets thrown in the jail for a time.
Thats retarted, if they are going to implement a guard system, they'd at least take the time to make ti to where the guards actually DO go on potrol, and have a sight system, they have to SEE you do it, thats the only way it could be realistic
If they had it set to what you wanted, it definitly wouldnt balance things out, it would just keep criminals outta town
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shame on you, we must have crime everywhere *wink wink* :P
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Thats retarted, if they are going to implement a guard system, they'd at least take the time to make ti to where the guards actually DO go on potrol, and have a sight system, they have to SEE you do it, thats the only way it could be realistic
If they had it set to what you wanted, it definitly wouldnt balance things out, it would just keep criminals outta town
My, aren't you a rude boy.
I think your proposition is harder to apply than mine and the only difference is seeing the models moving around. The type of realism you are expecting doesn't exist in PS: most NPCs stay at their place 24/7.
It would certainly balance things if what I proposed was implemented. There is _always_ the chance of being caught when you're doing a crime. A guard might have heard a noise, a neighbour might have informed a guard, the guard might have went the wrong way and suddenly found you. Probability accounts for that.
It wouldn't keep criminals out of town. It would just add an outcome to their actions.
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I have no qualms really, but criminals better be ready to bear consequences. An often nasty, brutish, short and often solitary life in the face of a powerful sovereign Octarchal administration.
consequences i understand, but come on now, magical staffs letting guards freaze sombody from anywhere they want to catch em and throw em in jail
thats seriously just sounding like godmodding to me
its not fair and is the reason crime doesnt even hardly exist...
the devs keep saying they want people to be a variety of things, cook, theif, hero, whatever..but how can they support theft, if they just let gm's godmod their way to locking up criminals...
what crime needs is a jailbreak system. bribing/ drugging guards. sneaking your friend a lockpick to an all out assault on the complex.
i used to run a server in a RPG called never winter nights. i hade a simple jail system that would teleport a player into a cell. but i added safeguards to prevent my fellow admins from abusing it.
each cell had a different lock pick level and there was always a pick hidden in each cell. the level of lockpicking on the door differed so you could send people to more difficult cells based on the severity of the crime. each door had a failsafe script that allowed a tenacious escapee to break out regardless of lock pick level of course the harder the difficulty the more time you had to spend. the hardest cell i had had a failsafe of 1000 attempts which although you could get out of it it would take about 20 minutes of constant attempts.
there were npc guards out side the cells that were programmed to change their level bassed on the cell they were put in and the level of the player so that there was always a chance to defeat the guards and escape.
but at the very least the guards jail ability should be a touch spell and require the guard to actually catch the criminal. as well as guards should be required on threat of banning to accept any duel challange from the criminal if he so chooses to fight.
but to be honest you could just scrap the jail all together and go for the death penalty being executed for a crime would trap you in the death realm for a period of time preventing you from simply respawning
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Right now we don't even have a real jail with real cells. WE just have a guild house with some make shift cells that in some cases the players can easily get out of the cell on their own. Right now the instructions to the GM team is guards are not bribable or corrupt. These things are reserved for special events that have been approved.
TThe better played criminals all seem to take their jail time in stride with little to no complaints. Then there ar ethe others who whine and complain about being jailed the whole time they are in jail.
And note I have never seen a guard freeze or teleport to jail a criminal then were not close to. All the people getting sent to jail were within a reasonable distance to the guard. People do need to remember that the NPC guards should be treated the same as a GM run guard. The NPC guards shouldn't not be treated as statues that can't see or react to what they see going on around them.
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note I have never seen a guard freeze or teleport to jail a criminal then were not close to. All the people getting sent to jail were within a reasonable distance to the guard.
back in 4.03 when i was in jail, there were more gm's online at one time, recently all i have seen is sarva, mara, and occasional ingles and one other, venalan i think idk
but back then, mara wasnt a gm yet, tazen was around, ingles, pizik, venalen, and like 5 others were on somtimes at the same time, so you may not have seen it, becuase the guards who did it dont come around anymore, i never found out which gm did it, and i dont remember the guards' names. but thats what they did, they would freaze people halfway across town, i only ever had 1 guard put up a chase.