Quote from: Sangwa on November 12, 2007, 11:06:17 am

EDIT: About Perma Death, with good NPC systems controlling behavior within towns, the new players would only have to be concerned with alleys and isolated places. That's because only a moron would go after a new player and get killed after by a guard.

Perhaps only a moron, but there are a lot of morons out there and all it takes is one to get into its head that killing new players is fun....then create another character and do it all over again!

Well Perma death is kind of harsh don`t you  think? Severe consequences yes but permadeath....the game would run out of players fast i`m affraid . Imho i think there needs to be a sense of risk asociated with PvP interaction , lose should have serious consequences but not as far as permadeath . Losing all the equiped and inventory items for once? losing skills (lvls)? permanent consequences in relations with the NPC`s (you commited a crime in a certain town , you won`t set step in the town (or the region for that matter) without the guards rushing to kill you (again)

That would probably soon lead to (let`s assume players are able to buils towns , infrastructure, and craft every item available in game) entire player owned towns , regions , kingdoms in the (let`s asume NPC `s have a small region of influence in a very vast game map) wild unexplored lands  . Let`s even go further , how about "resurection" requires someone to resurect you in a cretain ammount of time or the death is permanent . In NPC towns or regions , NPC`s will resurect you , IF they like you enogh (you`re not a criminal or such , or a declared enemy) . In the player ran regions , only owners of cerain structures  , say a temple to Laanx (maybe you need a strong claim on the region in order to build one in the first place) can perform resurections

What will this lead to ?:In a NPC town , someone kills a newbie : the guards rush in , kill the agressor (permanently) and the local priests take the newbie to the altar and resurect him .
                                In an unclaimed land , in some forest , two players run into eachother and decide to fight : The winer can drag the loser`s corpse to a shrine in his alliance`s town (if any) and if he can do it in time , resurect the dead enemy..or he can just walk away and the loser`s death is permanent . The resurection procedure should be a lengthy and complicated ritual , so it would prevent "on the run" resurections , or even not allow resurection if there is fighting nearby (i don`t want a FPS respawn point thing )

/rant off , back to work

Why do you guys keep separating PvP from RP ? Wouldn`t it be IC if i would walk to someone , draw my sword and swing it at him without any warning or any conversation before? Why not ? Could i be drunk , a psycho or even worse a l33t , yes , but there were and allways will be a good amount of those IRL , why not have them in PS aswell? The thing is , even if I kill my target , will i survive ? RL ..maybe , i`d go to jail or something....medieval fantasy seting? I doubt the guards or the victim`s friends or maybe just the do-good warrior walking by will think twice or bother RP `ing with me before slicing me down
Oh i`m not gona repost the same things over and over , i just remember i`m not a forum fan , reading some threads makes me wanna stop playing , but HAVE DEATH MEAN SOMETHING allready , via game mechanics, then let people PvP with or without RP prelude

in my opinion RP is NOT making up pretexts for OOC actions using fancy medieval english . RP is seeing your character like a person not like a tool , and playing him acordingly , making him "alive" . Conflict , PvP is part of that , that`s why i think you can`t separate RP from PvP

Here `s my 2 cents on the issue : Quests should be a compleatly different thing in the final PS version . Presuming that the aim is to get "smart" NPC`s that are able to "do there thing , play the game " independent from players , compleatly dynamic NPC`s if you want , then NPC quests should be specific to what the NPC in question is doing at the moment the player is offering to help . Perhaps at a point Harnquist will be lost somewhere on another level of Yliakum , so obviously he will want help geting back to Hydlaa , not ask for the same darn ore for like the 100000000`th time . What I mean is that if NPC`s will soon (TM) be able to interact with eachother and the game world independent from players , then fixed quests must go . NPC`s would engage in certain actions , and then based on those actions , "quests" should be "randomly?" generated .
I know the NPC communication system is curently a real pain , but i don`t think keywords is the solution

  Awessome!! Finaly!!

ok now this  alone is reason enough to get my A## back in Hydlaa plaza .
Really now , i do agree with most of the arguments about beeing able to move in a fight , but the "movements" , dodges and other things should be linked to  character skills and stats not the player bashing keys . So yes i`m VERY happy with click the attack and wait for the results . If by player skil you understand the player ability to bash 1000000 keys / second and time the process aswell , as in bash key 102 at exactly 0.12231 seconds from the combat start , then this type of player skill should have no place in PS . Go play a shooter and attempt to get a headshot on the guy behind the wall while jumping backwards and twisting in mid-air or somethig . The runing back-and-forth attempting to time your attack requires only one skill : avoiding game mechanics lvl 30 or higher
As for PvP , I am a big suporter of it , actually free all-around PvP , that is the ability to attack anyone anywhere would be great in later stages of the game , however with SERIOUS implications for killing other people , if caught ofcourses , such as (NPC)guards baning you from the towns , NPC`s denying you services prison time or such . Anyone remember the consequences of killing a guard or two in Morrowind?
Ofcourse this will only be posible when Death Realm is actually completed to some degree and death becomes a "serious" thing , not just a free trip to a vendor . PvP in RPG`s should NOT be similar with PvP in FPS`s , where the emphasis is on geting 1000 kills/game and on top of it that l337 uber h3adshot

no mention of Baldur`s gate I and II + expansions? or The Elder Scrolls (Morrowind for that matter actually , the most mod-ed game i know of , with a HUGE number of awessome mods , hell even a beta multyplayer! )
As for mmorpg`s , i belive there quality depends largely on there player base . I`ve seen several "l33t PL`3rz" in PS  , but the vast majority is (or was last time I `ve had some ale over at Kada`el `s) a great bunch of people , and that`s the main reason i played (and will play  again as soon as the download is done) . On the other extreme , Shadowbane , a game I played last year , could be called L33T PWN`3r H34v3N but nontheless i`ve been part of a nation with very strict RP rules ( http://midranell.proboards91.com/index.cgi?board=rules&action=display&thread=1149476989 excuse me in advance if i violated some forum rules by posting this link )




oh well I look forward to seeing Yliakum again ! (download at 68%)

Actualy Datruth you are right about most things , but for some reason you don`t seem to see one obvious truth : Any foreign military intervention in Sudan will have the same desastrous outcome as the Iraq war . Nomater how just the reasons may seem from where you stand , an invasion is an invasion , nothing more and nothing less . For some reason I don`t fully understand US seems to consider themselves some sort of world-wide police force . US has no right to get involved military in other states afairs , nomater how bad things look from where you stand . That is WAR . That is the reason why US is by far the most hated nation on the globe at the moment . Keep in mind that there is allways 2 sides to a problem , and enforcing what you think is right on others will always go wrong and backfire on you . Now please don`t get me wrong  , I`m compleatly against the Dafur genocide , against any form of ethnic clensing , but military action is not the way to solve issues . Remember the US war in Kosovo in 1999 ? Well i witnesed parts of that first hand , I live in Romania , that`s on the border of Serbia . In 1999 US suported what today wuld be called terorists . Albanian islamists in the Serbian province of Kosovo were"fighting" for independence ; fighting = bobming schools , markets , all sorts of civilian targets , killing christians in the name of the jihad , selfproclaming the state of Kosovo all the things we ussualy blame terrorists or insurgents for today . When the Serbian army retaliated (admitedly , a lot of albanian civilians were killed , but that`s due to the fact that tehre were no albanian "soldiers" there , and the terorists are basicaly civilians...), the US called it ethnic clensing , and steped in to "free" the country . Ofcourse that was "smart precisionbmbings" of powerplants , hospitals , bridges , roads , compleatly destroying Serbian infrastructure, and killing far more inocent civilians then soldiers . That was 1999 . Today , 2006 , there are still UN troops in Kosovo , the albanian islamist separatist still cary attacks against serbian civilians , well that`s whatever serbian civilians are left there , because most of them ran away since the UN ocupation force did nothing to protect them and the serbian army can`t do anything about it either .
But the main issue is the US "crusade" to impose "democracy" around the globe . Can`t you (US) realize how wrong that is ? You can not "impose" democracy with bombs and troops . Just let the world be  it will find it`s path eventualy
Now about Dafur , yes it`s likely US will turn it`s attention twards Africa in the future , considering it can`t move it`s crusade any further in the nea east (Iran , Syria ) , since those countryes are indirectly under china and rusia`s protection . Now lets say you are right , well from where I stand you are right . US goes there and fights of those militias , eventualy the entire government . The opressed civilians will most likely side with the US..but what next? Probably revange , and revange against who? The islamists ; You will have a minority backed up by the US military fighting the "insurgents" , the leftovers
of those militias and the government . The opressed will rise to punish there opressors , and don`t think they will hesitate to give them the same treatement they recived . Civilians will die , without a government the country will go into some form of civil war and chaos , and the US will be in the center of it all...again . Understand that you cant fight insurgents and terrorists without killing civilians . They ARE civilians , the terrorist is ussualy that guy that lost his family/wife/kids....and feels he has nothing to lose , so he seeks revange in any way he can
But this is the world we live in I guess , an empire is an emipre , and it will try to expand in any way posible . It was like this since the beginings of history . The pretexts for war may change but the real reasons will allways be the same : power , wealth , and the destruction of those that don`t share your beliefes (well actually imosing your beliefes on others where that is posible)zes for his bad english . Merry Christmas and a happy new year , may it be a better year for the world

Quote from: Isra on November 07, 2006, 02:09:35 pm

it is so interesting seeing your points of view on this , from the inside of it all . Yeap you guessed right I`m not from US
however here is my 2 cents on the matter . US politics has done more harm to the world in the last few years then comunism/nazism together throughout history .

Excuse me, but Hitler and Stalin murdered well over a hundred million people.  The American governmenthas promoted globalization, the American government has assassinated and tortured people, the American government has supported terrorist organizations abroad, but I don't think that you can put their war crimes even close to the those of Hitler and Stalin.

By the way, where have you been?  Or have I just not noticed you around and you've been here all along?

perfectly true there is no way you can compare the crimes of nazism and comunism to what US is dooing , in terms of lifes lost anyway . What I was talking about is creating this worldwide psychosis about terrorism, using fear as a mean of controlling "everything"and blindly attacking any way of life that is not the
"american way of life" . In WW2 the entire world reacted to the nazi threat , the nazi agression was NOT tolerated , but now noone seems to dare say/do anything against the US agression . This is where I see the problem, US is slowly turning into a planetary dictator . Us agression : hiting anyone and anything as long as it fits there ? economic? interests ,behind poor excuses that noone would actually belive .

but enough of this , democrats won, I`m off to drink to that

Ya I know my english sucks , it`s not my first language and I`ve failed most of my english exams in my 3 years of college

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