Yes; I agree with the others, but I imagine that the original poster meant on your OWN land.

My question: did devs say that you can own large plots of land (i.e. not just a little guild home, but like a \"farm-sized\" plot of land in certain places)? If so, then the idea is feasible.

It seems that most people agree on a closed economy (and possibly other methods to facilitate the cyclic flow of money?), so does anyone know if that has been OFFICIALLY proposed on the official wish list?

I have to agree with taltiren and some of the others (but especially him because his last post was right to the point).

Mkt2015, no matter what you say, MMORPG economies are complex. You even mentioned that inflation does not exist in them or something like that. If you have EVER played an MMORPG, you\'d know that is, by far, the biggest issue in the MMORPG economies.

Secondly, you said that you play games to get away from real life. Go right ahead. MANY players play MMORPG\'s because they like trading and stuff like that. That\'s part of the ECONOMY, but it doesn\'t mean that YOU specifically have to pay strict attention to it; just go with the flow. In case you don\'t know, a nice 99% of the public really has no idea how the economy operates; oh well, they\'re living, aren\'t they?

Oh, and one other thing. I think that a controlled and LIMITED capital economy will certainly be good. It will keep inflation down easily, and there won\'t be the issue of, as someone said, \"resources are unlimited, unlike oil in the real world.\" Not only can capital be limited and be part of a circular flow, but we could control ITEMS, as well. It\'s not that hard, people.

Ya, ArcaneFalcon, I see what you mean.

That idea which based the thing you quoted was bad; I agree. However, we still have to think of another reason for why the stocks will go up in price, since this is a game, of HOPEFULLY about 500 users playing at the same time (and that\'s just a very generous estimate for a year or two in the future), and you really can\'t just base the share prices realistically. It\'s just that in real life, when a company invents something, for example, and the stock-holders know that the company will be gaining huge profits, stock prices go up. Well, my logic in my original idea was to just cut out the middle step, but you are right, it just wouldn\'t work.

However, I still think that the price of the shares can\'t be based purely on people\'s trust in a game like this. As I mentioned in my previous post, we could also have the share prices increase if the guild had a successful raid and stuff like that. Anybody see any problems with this?

Oooh, temperature could also influence fishing and stuff like that Obviously, it could also slow down running speed and stuff like that when it\'s too cold/hot and would determine how well you fight (plus resistances to spells). Some mobs would be \"used to\" living in cold habitats, but players would not necessarily be and could build up tolerances to extreme temperatures.

Also, why not have a little thermometer of a player\'s BODY? I dunno if illness and stuff like that will be incorporated into the game, but maybe spells and fighting abilities would change according to how well you treat your body (your health would be worse and temp would change if you swim too much or something).

LOL, I think it\'s time for me to delete this thread and make a much less vague one ... but let\'s see if I can still repair this one.

Sorry guys, especially ArcaneFalcon and Kuiper7986. Only now did I realize where you guys are coming from.

I named the thread \"a REAL economy,\" and some of the stuff I mentioned in the first post really made it seem like I want a completely different system of economy from any MMORPG ever created and make it absolutely like real life. And then, when I got comments that I didn\'t expect that argue with, not my main ideas, but with back-up info and stuff like that, I was somewhat surprised. For some reason, it didn\'t really hit me that what you guys, except for taltiren, are arguing that my system will not create some sort of super realistic economy. And I see what ArcaneFalcon was saying about the major MMORPG economies. OF COURSE, they\'re complex economies that work, but in my opinion, there\'s just nothing exciting about them.

Time for an explanation. I made some mistakes in naming the thread and some of the introductory stuff in my first post. What I\'m really going for is a slight variation on the current MMORPG economy system that will not be simply like moderately advanced barter (which is what it is in virtually all current MMORPG\'s). What I basically meant by \"real economy\" is a simplified sort of modern economy. It\'s pretty hard to say what I\'m going for, but let me sum up my points.

PARTIALLY SPECIALIZED ECONOMY: I imagine we\'ll have different styles, different races, etc for cities/areas, so why not actually have them be a bit different? Mobs would drop items in some places that are different (or rarer) in other places. This would make the transportation of those items fastest to certain cities, making those cities \"centers\" for those items and goods that are made with those items. Please remember that the reason for me writing this thread is that I want this system to work well with PS, and in my opinion, it would. Since people will have specialized jobs and will be able to open stores and stuff like that, a specialized economy would work pretty well. It would also make different cities special, and they would not just be useless places where a bunch of NPC merchants sell cheap, common stuff. Some people (depending on their jobs) would actually have to commute between cities and travel within cities to find, for example, merchants that sell certain items for cheap. \"Brands\" would sort of be created, especially if guilds were to be formed based on people\'s crafts and the most efficient guilds that sell things in large quantities for cheap would get more business. Thus, competition would be encouraged. I realize that a monopoly would be a thing to watch out for (although an interesting thing), but since I want a more or less controlled economy, it wouldn\'t pose much of a threat.

A FEW DIFFERENT JOBS WOULD BE CREATED: \"Businessmen\" (I refered to them as Traders in my first post) could travel from city to city buying/selling things, from/to NPC\'s and/or players. There could be quests for them to do or just simple business interactions, but it wouldn\'t be easy for a n00b to make a lot of money. Once that n00b becomes higher level, though, he can take long, dangerous trips (because they would have to travel through dangerous places and because bands of thieves and pick-pockets would be encouraged to rob them) to other cities, which WOULD get them larger amounts of money. One thing this would depend on is that thieves/pickpockets would have the abilities to do this to a businessman \"class,\" and that\'s a pretty nifty idea, if I may say so myself As of now, since you won\'t be able to just PvP anyone, this would make those thieves actually successful.

SUPPLY/DEMAND: This is not a new idea in the least. ALL economies function on this idea, but I just want to mention that \"economists\" would have to help developers take care of this early on so that items and tradeskills would be balanced within the game and would heavily depend on other items/tradeskills.

LIMITED SUPPLY OF MONEY: The developers would only release new money every once in a while, when lots of new people join the game, for example, but the supply would be very finite. I will quote taltiren because I agree that the developers should \"limit the amount of money in circulation. What this would entail is that random encounters would only drop as much as the amount exited the economy through purchases.\" This would control the purchasing power of the people, and create a \"circulation of capital\" effect.

VARIATION: A concern is what I\'ve mentioned up till now is just plain boring. I disagree. The economy WILL, just like in real life, fluctuate. Yes, in MMO\'s, the economies just tend to have inflations because there isn\'t a limited supply of money and people can just do quests over and over or kill easy mobs that drop a lot of money to make themselves rich. In a controlled economy with a limited supply of money, this can\'t be a problem. What do I mean by a \"controlled\" economy? It would be regulated by developers and (as I called them in my first post) \"volunteer economists.\" Wouldn\'t it be nice to have an economy where the value of money and items changes from time to time, and not just go down? It\'s possible, pretty easy, and would make the economy an actual part of life, not just a factor in considering the uber l00t that you want to buy. People would use banks as financial safe-havens and not necessarily just for storing items and money that\'s too heavy to lug around. There could even be interest rates in banks and stuff like that

I guess that last paragraph there is the most important, so please read it carefully.

Once again, very sorry to those people that I harshly argued against; I misunderstood your arguments and did not defend myself correctly, and even incorrectly explained myself, in the first place.

Feel free to criticize this, and try to base stuff on this post, and not necessarily my previous ones in this thread.

Arcane, time to couner-argue all your points.

Brewing in EQ: It WAS almost useless. Yes, I realize that tailoring, especially, used some high-level brewing stuff. Yet, it was very easy to become a master brewer and only a few were needed on the entire server for those rare tailored items. In case you don\'t remember, in EQ, it pretty much came down to quests for good items. I remember a few of those items that needed brewery, and not only were many master tailors capable of making it, themselves, but those tailored items were nowhere near as good as some fairly easy quests that made people who took those quests a lot more money than those tailors.

About your first point: none of those MMORPG\'s had realistic economies, and I already said that EQ\'s economy was so screwed up at the beginning that they needed GM\'s to pose as players and sell stuff, and they didn\'t even tell anyone they were doing it because they realized that their system was too simple to work.

Second point: Inflation doesn\'t NEED to be stopped, it needs to be CONTROLLED to some extent. I\'d even WANT inflation and deflation to happen every once in a while, it\'s a part of a realistic economy, but we don\'t need to flood the game with money, unless it\'s necessary at the time. Of course, things out of the developers\' control will happen. I don\'t doubt this. BUT, it\'d be nice to have a way of fixing things. I also really don\'t see how your comment about NPC\'s stopping buying things is at all relevent.

Third point: Well, of course there will virtually be 0 return for complete n00b tradeskillers. I don\'t see your point there. I doubt that too many people would go crazy and become masters at their trade too quickly, since they wouldn\'t even have the financial means to do so.

Fourth point: you can, it\'s been done before, and it\'s still player driven. As long as we\'re on the EQ example, remember where trade was concentrated back in the pre-bazaar days? Well, actually, a couple places, depending on the server you played on. On most, EC was the trading point, making Freeport the center of EQ. And then, BOOM, bazaar was opened, and everybody just moved their characters there. Note that many many many people just keep idle characters there selling things. In some cases, those characters stay in the same \"city\" (well, zone in EQ) for weeks. However, did people still go from city to city? Of course! And don\'t forget that in PS, you will be able to open stores and stuff like that, so that\'s a permanent thing, which will HAVE to stay in one place. That still doesn\'t mean the owners will have to stay there all the time. You can put an NPC to work for you, or something like that. My system wouldn\'t even be fully implemented for a long, long time, so the game would hopefully be pretty well-developed.

Fifth point: Simply said, I agree. The quests that the n00bs would do would not make them much money. I think I used the word \"decent\" before about the amount of money they make, but by that I mean enough to buy food and stuff like that. I don\'t mean that they\'ll be able to do the quests over and over to make enough money to buy even remotely good stuff. However, they\'ll be able to rise in level so they CAN do hard quests and jobs that WILL get them good money.

On a final note: you mentioned the word \"inflation\" a lot of times. In a controlled economy, inflation should not be a big issue. Also, like taltiren mentioned, it\'s fairly easy to keep it from happening with a limited supply of money. The developers can always add money if needed, but inflation should NOT be an issue and SHOULD be avoided. Nowadays, standards for MMORPG\'s are increasing, and considering the amount of experimentation already done, it\'s obvious that in a completely player controlled economy, inflation IS an issue. BUT, it CAN and SHOULD be controlled.