one might, but they wouldn\'t be able to get very far. even with heisenburg you can still have closed systems. hesienburg say nothing about the conservation of energies. it only says about the ability to measure the speed and location of a particle.

It doesn\'t say anything directly, but it is responsible for the quantum foam. And it\'s not simply a limitation on measurement, it\'s an actual \"fuzzyness\" in the nature of reality, if you will.

zpe and quantum foam don\'t invalidate the concept of a closed system. simply because of the definition of a closed system. and for that matter the definition of quantum foam. the boundries may change but the concept still remains the same. a closed system will have no change in the mass-energy of it.

That\'s the thing, due to quantum foam, the energy in \"empty\" space is constantly fluctuating, and is a definite non-zero. These particle pairs are \"borrowing\" energy from nothing to appear, and then annihilating themselves an instant later, releasing the energy back into the void. This energy from nothing is responsible for the pressure on the plates that causes the Casimir effect, though I\'m not aware of anyone having actually come up with a way to get any use out of this energy, or increase the amount of energy that can be used. This is the key point that spawns a lot of \"free energy\" theories that people make claims about. The amount of potential energy in ZPE is enormous. If it could be tapped into without limitation (except that dictated by natural law of course), then we could do virtually anything. The stars would be easily within our reach (see Miguel Alcubierre\'s warp drive). It is very compelling.

Then the fact that the effects that make these machines work always(?) seem to be very elusive

Well, except for cold fusion. That has been reproduced numerous times, just not consistently, so there is doubt.

who was poisoned just after he\'d received a large grant for cold fusion research... (and I very much doubt it\'s \'the government\' as such is responsible... more likely rogue elements in government agencies, and criminal gangs, working in cooperation with the oil companies).

Sounds very cloak and daggery, but sadly, could very well be true.

*checks out the new sweet links*

You can find all those and more on Google, which is why I didn\'t bother to post more than a couple links, and just said to search yourself instead.

Instead of \"sh executable\", try \"./executable\". Also, check the extension. If it\'s something like .tgz, then it\'s compressed and you\'ll have to extract it first.

Make sure it didn\'t get caught by spam filters. Usually clicking the Forgot password link will resend it.

Originally posted by Pogopuschel

Quote

Originally posted by steuben
here\'s the oddness. he claims that it isn\'t perpetual energy, energy from nothing. he claims that it produces five times the energy than is put in. now what is to stop you from take twenty percent of the out and channeling it back into the device [...]

This is the argument to prove that the whole article is a hoax.

Don\'t be so sure.

If, in an experiment, energy within a closed system appears out of nowhere, or multiplies, you haven\'t defined this \'closed system\' correctly.

Not necessarily.

The article is so crude it\'s not even worth discussing really.

The article may not be, but the subject it brings up is.

If that\'s not enough, lets see what other people on other forums wrote about it:

Appeal to authority/popular opinion: Strike 1

Let\'s see:

\"Physicist Bruce DePalma has a 100 kilowatt generator, which he invented, sitting in his garage. It could power his whole house, but if he turns it on, the government may confiscate it.\"

It can\'t be produced because of a conspiracy. Strike 1.

Haven\'t read the article yet, but the claim that it would be confiscated has nothing to do with conspiracy. It\'s what would likely happen conspiracy or not. Use of straw man: Strike 2.

\"His N machine, as it is called, is said to release the \"free energy\" latent in the space all around us.\"

Reference to \"free energy\". Strike 2.

A reference to free energy is an alarm, but not a strike.

\"The DePalma generator is essentially a simple magnetized flywheel, ie a magnetized cylindrical conductor rotating at high speed with the help of a motor. His astonishing claim is that the present versions of the N machine can generate up to five times more power than it consumes.\"

It uses magnets to violate a fundamental law of physics. Strike 3. And that\'s just the first few paragraphs.

Which fundamental law is that? Nothing in the laws of nature precludes the creation of matter/energy so long as there is conservation.

If it is in fact not a deliberate hoax, it\'s at least BS.

Try looking up the Casimir effect, zero point energy, and quantum foam or Hawking radiation.
Based on what we know and some of the more advanced models in theoretical physics it is entirely possible to have such \"free energy.\" The trick is exploiting this knowledge with technology.

Originally posted by John_Thazer

Quote

Originally posted by Xantam
Who comes up with these names? They\'re not exactly easy to pronouce, and thus not very easy to remember either.
A random name generator may be useful here...

LOL...new worlds, new names...isn\'t that fun? Random Generator...is a bit boring...

That\'s why you sit there and click them for 5 mins until you see one you like, or can modify into one you do. :p

Seriously though, I dislike the names for the reasons stated above.

Most forums have different thread icons (the envelope on the left) for threads you\'ve posted in (usually an evelope with a black dot on it). I\'d like to see this here as well.

There\'s no obvious link from the forum to the main site, even though there\'s a link from the site to the forum. I suggest making that logo at the top link to the site.

I\'ve heard about point 0 energy before.

That\'s \"zero point energy\" actually, not \"point zero energy.\" Referrs to the amount of energy in the vacuum of \"empty\" space. It has been tapped in minute amounts (see Casimir effect), but not enough to be useful.
Personally I\'ll have doubts about \"free energy\" being exploited until it\'s confirmed by more trustworthy sources, or until I can verify it myself (either logically or experimentally).