This is a great idea 

But, I will be honest. I do train some skills OOCly. So what I mean by this is that I plan on getting Azure way to 80 so I can, see peoples stats if I need to rank them up, and to help new players gain PP by being able to rejuvenate their mana. But then there is always a small simple solution to my problem and that will have to be alt.

PS. No KIC doesn't rank by skills, anyone can rank anywhere with having no change in their stats (but this is very unlikely) we mostly like our members to max out strength just to be able to wear Heavy Armor b'cos it looks kool.

Personally I prefer not to train OOC skills   HA does look awesome though

that system sounds pretty static to be honest
you'll always limit people to make a specific selection of skills that way.
e.g. one may decide to only master magic ways while not training any combat or even job ones. why shouldn't he be able to? (NPC example of this is zhaomal)

also you should reconsider your topic, this isn't a "balance for all", it's mererly a "limitations for skills"

I tend to disagree as I think of the current system is static, the method I proposed allows for things to continually change where as currently once you maxed something it's maxed and that's it.
Also I did explain why they should not be able to, it is simply not realistic.  I understand how tempting it is to have a 'superman' character, but when everyone else is 'superman' too does that not defeat the point and take you back to square one?  Where is the uniqueness in that? 

I know my example was limited to the mastery of 5 skills, but it is only an example and even changing that to 10 would still be more realistic than being able to master all 30+ skills available in the game.   

anyway, you may want to have a look at this thread:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37524.0

in your case especially the proposal of nivm (which came up a few others times before iirc) which is a lot more dynamic than just putting OOC limitations and tackles the same system (jack of all trades)

I did actually read that, thank you, it is a bit more complex than my suggestion and I do agree with what was suggested, but the focus was on stat growth in accordance with specific race and actual training experience etc. which would of course play a role in skill selection where as my suggestion is focused more on the realism behind the trainability of a set number of skills at a time.

To me it simply makes sense that if you do not regularly train a skill your mastery of that skill will degrade with time or that training a different skill will have some impact on it, whether that be negative or positive.  The two concepts do however address the same problem if simply in different ways.

Still, I think it is good when people do reason about one of the oldest controversies in planeshifts progression system.

Notice my little idea linked by RlyDontKnow is definitely not enough to address the problem that people can become a master of all trades.
On the other hand, I have the impression that it is one of Planeshifts core concepts that everyone is free what to learn and practice.

Personally, I think the best solution would be to have a system where skills do not directly affect each other in terms of training limits, but where you have some antagonistic and synergistic effects. As an example, training the skill antimagic should give you an overall higher chance to fumble when casting a spell, or some decrease of each spells overall power. Thus, you could train the magic ways and antimagic independently from each other, but your spellcasting abilities will definitely suffer from advanced antimagic lessons. In this sense, people could train everything they like, without any restrictions. But there would not be much of a reason to max out everything, if a reasonably  specialized skill build yields much better competences at a fraction of the training effort.

By the way, I like that signature very much. Will you share more art of this kind?

My ideas are simply examples of what could possible be done, I completely agree with there being both antagonistic and synergistic effects to each skill, each skill should have some disadvantage to learning it or at least an effect on opposing skills. In fact this would be ideal but far more complex than my suggestions as each skill would need to be allotted bonuses or disadvantages in relation to every other skill or in the least to opposing skills.

(Also if you are referring to my sig, thank you but it is about 4 years old, I am just to lazy to change it :p )

I think it's a great idea. But what off the oldies that have maxed all six ways? They've spent millions and millions trying to learn it and probably like months, even years. It would be unfair, if this get's implemented, to just drop their skills like that.

 Well like mentioned already that will probably happen regardless :p

Also magic is very different from sports. Magic uses your brain. Yes, crystal way and Dark way is highly different, but it doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't be able to max them both. I think you should be allowed to max them both, except that once you have maxed their opposite way, the other one gets tougher and more expensive to train. There are mages in other games, or movies that have almost known knowledge of all the spells, wether they are summoning the dead or curing the ill.

True, magic does require you to use your brain, but it does not alter the fact that it would still require training, albeit the mind instead of the body.
I am not trying to debate whether both dark and crystal way should be used or not, the first example was simply a suggestion at balancing.  Following the second example leaves room to learn both after all.
Perhaps you do have a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde type character that can learn both, but remember there are four other ways to learn as well. Also let us not stop there since there are still several types of weapons to master as well as armors, and of course numerous types of jobs and other skills.  Where do you draw the line before it becomes too much?

They may have knowledge Maisent but they probably don't have experience, so what I am meaning is that they read a book and know it. But have never done it.

You can't be an expert at Crystal way and Dark Way. They are both opposite and no matter who you are you can't think opposite its like telling yourself to rub your bally and tap your head. Crystal Way is looking at the light of the world, and Dark way is looking at the dark of the world. Yes you can know some/little maybe a lot of Crystal way and be an expert at Dark Way but its too impossible to be an expert of both ways.

I would not say it is necessarily impossible, but they would most certainly have some sort of effect on each other seeing as their very natures are at such opposite ends of the spectrum.  Either way it would most certainly not be a simply task to master and be able to use both interchangeably.

I agree on the matter with Kiraki and Vakachehk. Talking here purely from the RP perspective I don't see how it's possible to have a character that's skilled in healing people and hurting people and be -perfect- at both. Or better said both good and evil. Most people when they think of their characters backgrounds usually choose a series of settings that will make them take one of the two paths. I for one consider Dark Way and Crystal Way to be mutual exclusive. I can't see both sides of the coin when it comes to necromancy spells and healing spells.

My point is that a balancing is needed both stat wise and magic wise otherwise you're simply inviting god-modding. I'm pretty sure that anyone reading this topic can relate with meeting a "master of the universe" char that can't ever loose a RP duel because they can't understand that having maxed stats has nothing to do with RP.

Agreed but they do not necessarily need to be mutually exclusive, however as I already mentioned there should be some sort of implication for using both.

Using sports as an example wass a bad idea. Sports is physical, magic is mental. Lifter/sprinter would not go together because your body structure has to be exact to be a pro at one of them. Unlike magic, which uses the brain. And i don't think brains can change. Brain is knowledge, if you are smart you can crack most puzzles/spells etc. Anyways you can be a master of both light and dark, as I said many mages from games and/or movies out there have learned spells to cure someone, and some spells to curse someone. My idea is that, once you have learned/ maxed out a way (crystal way for example), the opposite (dark way)should be harder and more costly to train.

As I mentioned already the brain still needs training nonetheless.   There are also differences in the brain as there are with the body, an overly simple example perhaps being someone that is more mathematically inclined compared to someone that thinks more abstractly. It is tricky to train the brain to think in two completely opposite ways at the same time.   
Making one way harder to train once another is maxed does simply that alone, it makes it harder to train, but with time it will still be possible to max both.

ok, having read most of the posts and links till here... i can't imagine a dagger weilder taking on a full plated warrior on a frontal attack. He should be ready to get butchered not because of the plate's protection as for the opponent's sword's length. Using daggers to block swords and figh on par with them sounds hard too... though, if two fighters are pretty close the one that has a dagger is in advantage... shields can't be used and there is little space for movements... if the combat system should be realistic then the most important thing would be the impact of a weapon affecting the opponent's movemet at least. Like making them stop for a short moment... thust there would be a meanining in someone approaching and hitting with daggers. But since PS is still on  i won't be surprised to see a bit different fighting system after a few years 

If the fighting system is reworked then how about changing to a secondary weapon as bow or daggers by pressing a certain key? (just as we press shift to run)

I have to agree that I do not see someone skilled with daggers taking on a full plated warrior on a frontal attack, I think that is rather the point actually.  A dagger user would try a sneak attack from behind, or if confronted try and move around the warrior trying to stay out of axe/sword range and dash in and try to strike at weak points in the armor when possible (Or something of the sort), which would most certainly do at least some damage if it hit, especially since weak points are often along joints. 
However there is currently no speed or agility disadvantage to wearing full plate during combat and thus wearing lighter armor has no real advantage either.  Shouldn't someone wearing light armor and using daggers at least be able to dodge a lot more blows than someone wearing plate and wielding heavy axes?   I agree that if the axe user gets a hit in the dagger user is probably doomed, but a dagger user should at least be able to have chance at wearing the opponent down. 

If you want to go for full realism then yes, a fully plated warrior with axes/swords would most likely own a dagger user on the battle field, but -off- the battle field the heavy armor gets put away if not the weapons as well, while the daggers can be carried around permanently.  Yet I doubt that level of realism will be reached in game unless a time limit or some other penalty to wearing heavy armor is put in place, since when playing I see far more people wearing heavy armor as a permanent attire than those that actually take it off when they are not fighting.

So yes trying to stick with realism is nice but the game mechanics are limiting and thus it is not always fully possible.

My point is a dagger user should at least have -some- chance of defending themselves or doing some damage before they get taken down.   As things are currently there is basically no point in even making the attempt. 

Oh hai Elvi! 

Progress was painfully slow through the treacherous tunnels with the injured menki at her side. Not even a hint of light could be found in the total darkness of the cave as she guided him through path ways she already knew by heart. Sometimes only semi-conscious, he was constantly tripping or loosing his footing and they stopped regularly, both of them needing to catch their breath quite often for even breathing was difficult in the hot stagnant air.  Not a word was spoken between them as they precariously made their way out of the darkness towards the outside world.

When they finally stepped out into sunlight they were both equally relieved and for the first time Kiraki was truly grateful for the feeling of the rays of warmth on her face.
It was mid afternoon and the azure sun shone pleasantly down on them from a cloudless sky as they moved out onto the broad ledge where she had lead them.  Below them the forest stretched out till far past the horizon and birds were merrily fluttering about in the tree tops almost within hands reach of where they stood.  Taking several deep breaths of fresh air and letting them out slowly the menki next to her appeared to be in complete rapture as tears of utter delight flowed down his cheek.  Supporting his back against a large boulder she gently placed him down on the ridge then sat down to the left of him without a word.  He leaned back against the sun baked rock, slowly relaxing, his expression peaceful. She continued to watch silently as he gratefully soaked up the sunlight, almost visibly regaining his strength.

They sat quietly alongside each other for a long time, neither moving, as minutes slowly turned into hours. The sun was already starting to dim when he finally broke the silence. 
“I do not understand why you helped me, but you have my eternal gratitude, I thank you… Kiraki.”
He spoke clearly now with a hint of strength to his voice that had not been there before.
His manner was more self-assured, his body relaxed, even the swelling along his chest seemed to have alleviated.
“Why did you not just give her the information she wanted?” She asked carefully.
“I will never give up the location of my family.’ He replied defiantly. Without him realizing it he had just explained to her what Ocheeva had been after. Kiraki knew almost everything that happened in and around the academy, spying regularly on both Ocheeva and Kharmion as well as some of the other high ranking members. There was only one location that was sought after high enough for Ocheeva herself to try and locate it.  It has been long known within the academy that there was a group of mercenaries hunting and killing assassins.  There nomadic life style made them difficult to track and there location was as yet undisclosed.  But something else about his words stood out to her and she looked at him skeptically.

“Family?” She asked in an uncertain tone.  Gazing at her, his expression softened and he answered in a distant sounding voice “I wonder if you even know what family means.” She made no reply and he continued slowly “I have a wife and three children of which the youngest is about your age,” he smiled kindly at her but his voice contained a deep sadness she did not understand “they mean the world to me, I love them with every part of my being, I could never betray them, no matter what these people do to me.”
Tilting her head to the side she looked at him completely perplexed.
“Love?” She asked.  He turned towards her with that strange sadness she had heard in his voice now showing on his face. He reached out to her with his left paw and smiling sympathetically he gently stroked her cheek. 
“That the world can be so cruel as to let a child grow up without love.” He whispered. The warm touch of his paw on her cheek caused a strange feeling in her stomach and her mind to spin into confusion.  Never before had anyone reached out to her in such a manner.  Rooted to the spot she barely heard his words as she stared at him wide eyed in surprise. Tears rolled down his cheek and he pulled her closer into an embrace. She stiffened, confused, then allowed him to pull her against him, the strange feeling in her stomach growing and spreading to her heart.  With her head resting against his chest, she could hear his gentle heart beat, his slow rasping breath and the soft sensation of her fur against his. It was strangely comforting.

He released her and she moved back quietly, left completely and utterly bewildered, staring into space as she waited for her rapidly beating heart to calm and her mind to clear.  There was a strange silence between them as twilight slowly faded and the night came alive with sound. 
“I do not understand… your kind hunts us.” She whispered eventually.
“I am just a farmer.  They live off what my herd provides.” He explained.
“They are trapped… they will be found eventually.” She replied
“I will take my family far away from that place.” He said confidently.
“No,” She spoke the word softly and he looked at her questioningly “I cannot let you leave here alive.” She finished impassively as she looked out over the darkness of the forest below them.

Surprise slowly crept across Bryn’s face as he took in her words. They were spoken as a statement not a threat and said bluntly without any sign of concern or regret as if she was talking about picking apples and not cold hearted murder. Looking at the child next to him he knew he could not even start to comprehend the type of life she was living.  At first he had though she had helped him escape but he now realized that there was no outlet from the narrow ledge they were on and that she had simply brought him here to kill him. Yet, he thought, she had without understanding what or why she had done so, shown him compassion, leaving him to enjoy the last few hours of day light.  Would such a young and seemingly innocent child really try to kill him?

Reality slowly crept in on him as he realized that she would not only try, but succeed.  He knew in his heart that he could never bring himself to kill a child. Added to the fact that he was not sure if his broken body would even be able to counter any attack she might make, the manner in which she had brought him here had demonstrated will and endurance that far surpass that of any child her age he had ever seen. He was certain that they would not have left him alone with her if she was not skilled and capable of finishing what they had started.  More than likely she carried hidden weapons with her as well and he knew that in his current state he would make easy prey.
He smiled sadly at her, he was convinced she would have been a loving child if she had been raised in a good home.  Even under the current circumstances she was pleasant company, soft spoken and strangely naïve.
“I understand” he replied calmly, keeping the despair from his voice.
“I can take your family to safety.” She said, speaking in her usual soft monotonous tone, but turning expectantly towards him.  He almost laughed as he replied “You would kill me but save my family?”
“Yes,” She nodded “If you tell me how to reach them.” She said earnestly.

Yet again he was left speechless, he had no idea if she was being sincere or cunningly trying to trick him into giving away the location they were seeking.  She had spoken truthfully when she said his family would be found in the end, he had simply been trying to avoid the inevitable, clinging to the hope that perhaps somehow they would find a way to escape if he could only give them more time, delay things somehow, and now she was offering him that opportunity. A chance for his family to live.  Staring blankly into the night he sat tormenting himself, uncertainty gnawing at him with his mind in turmoil, trying to somehow find peace within his heart for what he was about to do.  Looking down into the direct and open gaze of the child beside him he knew she had him trapped. If he wanted his family to survive there was no alternative other than to take the risk of trusting her. Broken and bitter inside he silently prayed to the gods that the child would be true to her word.

Kiraki sat motionless as she watched and waited while the distressed menki next to her went through some strange personal anguish that seemed far beyond her comprehension.  After what seemed almost an eternity he stopped fretting and taking a deep breath he silently turned to look at her.

“They will be safe?” He asked eventually.
“They will be safe.” She echoed looking back at him with a smile. He nodded slowly then told her everything he knew, how to find the settlement, the names of their leaders, where they lived, where he lived and even the names of his wife and children.  She sat quietly as she listened intently to his every word. When he finally finished his tale he sighed heavily and looked up into the night sky.
“Talad forgive me.” He whispered.  A shocked expression flashed across his features as he reached up to grab the dagger that was now protruding from his chest.  He had not even seen her move until the blade was already buried deep into his heart.  She placed her hand over his on the hilt of the dagger and smiled pleasantly as she spoke “It will be over quickly now.  Thank you and rest well Sir Bryn.”
Moments later his breathing ceased and Kiraki retrieved her dagger, cleaning it thoroughly as she made her way back to the cave entrance.  She was still smiling as she stepped down into the damp tunnels, whispering softly into the darkness “Test passed.”

   ~

Rodero paced anxiously up and down the entrance to his small tent, his wings flapping irritably, as much from the stench that filled the place as the seemingly endless hours of waiting in anticipation.  Ocheeva had given them instructions on how to find the base of the long wanted bandits that had been hunting their men.  Knowing of the diaboli woman’s fondness for playing gruesome games he hoped that the information had been correct and not just one of her tricks.  She had specifically ordered him not to join the raid as she had apparently wished to speak with him while it was in progress.  Not only had this made him particularly suspicious but the very thought of spending time with the woman filled him with dread.

She was currently sitting comfortably on his bed, her overwhelmingly rancid smell filling the entire inner area of the tent. Not a word had been spoken between them since she arrived and he was growing increasingly nervous, feeling like he was about to snap from the tension that hung heavily in the air between them. 

He glanced over at her. Despite the woman’s lack of hygiene and dental care her face was beautiful and her body was fit and well toned, making her quite an attractive woman, but her cruelty and ghastly ways were infamous. She gave him a broad smile, showing what was left of her rotting teeth.  Turning around abruptly he barely managed to keep the contents of his stomach from spilling to the floor.  From behind him her cackling laughter carried through the tent. 

At that moment one of his scouts rushed into the tent, his long dark cloak covered in mud and his pale face brimming with sweat.  Rodero gave the young lemur a few moments to catch his breath before he issued the command “Report!”
Lifting his head and straightening his slight shoulders the scout covered his nose with his hand and nodding at the same time.
 “Yes Sir, their camp was amazingly well hidden Sir, we would have struggled to find it but the instructions were flawless Sir, they never even heard us coming, it was superbly done Sir.” He replied excitedly.
Rodero nodded slowly trying not to show his immense relief.
 “Yes, yes, so your mission was successful then?” He asked impatiently.
There was a slight pause before the lemur answered hesitantly “Yes Sir.”
“Why the uncertainty, Scout?” Rodero demanded, once again feeling his anxiety rise.
“There was a bit of a peculiar incident with one of the dwellings Sir. It had already been completely vacated when we arrived.”
“Had it not been previously unoccupied?” He asked hopefully.
“No Sir, from our interrogations we found that it belonged to a menki named Bryn Tully.”
Rodero once again flapped his wings in irritation as he posed the next question.
“Was he anyone important?” He asked, almost holding his breath in fearful anticipation of the answer.
“He was a farming merchant Sir, he and his family supplied the camp with provisions.  It seems that he had strangely disappeared a few days prior to the rest of his family, but trackers have already been sent out to try and locate them Sir.” The lemur replied confidently.  Rodero let out an inward sigh of relief, a simple farmer and kin was the least of his worries, they would be easily found and disposed of. 
Ocheeva suddenly rose from her position on his bed waving her arms about in a very eccentric fashion saying “No, no, no, no ,no.”
Rodero turned and looked at her quizzically.
“You are wasting time on finding a farmer and his brats? We have nothing to fear from peasants!” She exclaimed further waving her arms about above her head.  Sticking her nose into the air and swinging her hips excessively from side to side she stormed out of the tent muttering loudly to herself. Shaking his head Rodero turned back to the scout with a sigh.
“Call off the search then report back to base that the mission was successful.” He said, relief flowing through him, almost more so from having Ocheeva leaving than from being able to report a successful mission. The scout nodded then turned and left hurriedly out the entrance with Rodero following in his steps, finally able too escape the horrid smell that Ocheeva had left behind.  One day, he promised himself as he moved off into the night, I will force that woman to take a bath.

Yay party hat! 

New Years Party was hectic - danced the whole night - still recovering from that hehe 

Hope you all have an awesome one! 

Mmh I think… Green Dragon! I love dragons    and along with that would be Calypso and Cliff-edge ooooh, and funny names for snakes! Fuzzy bears. Whooping Crane breading grounds– That is such a cute name – And Beluga -That too, but, weird in a way and also 400 million year old rocks huge dolomite outcrops and a large variety of volcano types, beautiful mountain ranges, ooh and huge pop-up along there mmhh… and snow, and trees, lots of trees and cool accent and mmh more Canada-like stuff!

But yeah, thats just me. 

Underpopulated?  That's a term I've never quite understood.  Why is having a larger population always a good thing?

Its not always a bad thing, just harder with less people I guess.  

Looks like a place that can be confusing to walk through on the inside as well as the outside.   

Would like to see it once it is finished    Looking good so far, second one is definately better. 

In South Africa we use UK English as this is taught in schools and we would get marked down for using US English despite the good arguments we came up with

Regardless of the origin of the word the way it is spelt changes the pronunciation to me.

For instance the difference between colour and color:  To me the first would be pronounced  k(u)l(e)r  where as the second would be pronounced k(u)l(o)r (Forums doesnt support symbols so edited to add this ).  Thus I prefer the first as this is how I pronounce the word.

Maybe we can just write and speak in scientific lingo then?
 

   

Hehe I found this very funny!  Ever hear Jack and Jill told in scientific lingo?  Found this somewhere a while ago, although it is scientifically not completely correct one gets the basic idea.

A research team proceeded toward the apex of a natural geological protuberance, the purpose of their expedition being the procurement of a sample of fluid hydride of oxygen in a large vessel, the exact size of which was unspecified. 
One member of the team precipitately descended, sustaining severe fractural damage to the upper cranial portion of his anatomical structure.  Subsequently, the second member of the team performed a self-rotational translation oriented in the direction taken by the first member.

Sourced from:  Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.  Jack fell down and broke his crown and Jill came tumbling after.