Quote from: shrapnel on December 10, 2011, 07:44:08 am

What design documentation exists for PS?
...
Which ones are open to all to examine? Which ones are available for potential help to examine? Are they all available once accepted for helping? Are these design documents being enforced? Do they need reviewed and updated?

ROFL...thanks, that one made my day.

THAT'S what I was afraid of... Nothing that nails down what PS is really supposed to be, or how it plans on getting there. Makes it more susceptible  to scope creep and everything else that will slow down or kill a project.

I think a large problem of PS is that it's completely torn by different interests. It depends a lot on the community, so all sides need to be heard. All developers have different goals, too. It's a nice example of too many cooks spoiling the broth. Too long development time. Too vaguely defined goals.

Do I think that this kind of development will lead anywhere? Well yes, they will end up with something. It would look similar to what we're currently seeing, only contradicting itself a little more. I do not think PS can be turned into a well-running project that will lead to a complete, consistent, and fun game, if they keep the current overall development "strategy".

Do I think it could be rescued? That's tough to say. A lot of current process would need to be sacrificed.

There'd need to be set goals for the game, goals that will be followed as a group. Goals that are thought through very well. (In contrast, right now the goals more seem to be "Oh, it should allow for role-play. And there should also be mechanics. And fun, it should be fun for the player." Those are more kindergarten kind of goals)

Edit: I think I got side-tracked a little.

You probably have gotten a little side-tracked there. But this does lead me to some questions, and a continuance of the hijack of the thread.

What design documentation exists for PS?

• Pitch/Proposal?
• High Concept?
• Concept?
• Specifications?
• Design?
• Story?
• Art?
• Storyboards?
• Technical?
• UML diagrams?
• Test plans?
• Project Plans?
• External events?
• Risks?
• Script?
• Audio?

Which ones are open to all to examine? Which ones are available for potential help to examine? Are they all available once accepted for helping? Are these design documents being enforced? Do they need reviewed and updated?

I don't think it is too late to revive the game, but it may take some drastic rework in some areas of thought, mechanics, and code.

Okay, I've got an account on both servers, with only one character on EZPC, and fortunately one open slot on Zero Ping. Admittedly my EZPC character hasn't had much time in-game (<6 hrs). It would still be nice to see the character brought over so I can get a feel for that character in a more populated environment.

[For those who are in charge of this transition, BOTH ZeroPing and  EZPC accounts use the same email, and that is the same email linked to my forum account here.]

If there is special instructions I need to follow to see this done, please let me know as I probably missed them.

I believe the hardware culler also fixes the transparency issues with the heightfield maps.

Or is this just a coincidence, and the alpha maps were fixed with the update 0.5.8.1?

They (the transparency issues) don't seem to be repaired.

I didn't use/install any custom skins, just the default one (if there is such.)

The only hiccups I see now:

• occasional frame stutter and small delays in Hydlaa, or loading an area.
• The on-going issue of it crashing on exit. (Sounds perhaps like it could be a memory leak, I'm not sure though.)
• Tabbing out of the client causes the client to crash. (0.5.7.1 at its worst seemed to only suffer model degradation.)
• Apparently an NPC is now on a timer to move about, was moved off the roof of Hydlaa's Tavern to who knows where, or removed from the game. (IF the latter two, this causes problems as she is involved in at least two quests in-game.) I will report it on bug-tracker IF it's confirmed that the NPC is not on some timer for moving around (Although it was 10AM in-game time when she was noted not present by my character.)
• Someone has a book in Hydlaa's tavern about some event, and there seems to be some weird artifacting? thing going on as a line comes off the book (well a broken line) and points toward the stairs. (ZeroPing)

So, it IS now playable.

Where I work, we have a saying:   "It is what it is."
If you want to have fun, you need to make friends and enjoy their company.

Unless you have a serious case of autism and OCD and enjoy just sitting there all alone and clicking on things...

Insulting any player base that's left with legitimate medical conditions is definitely no way to improve the user base, or help keep the user base you still have. Of course the game "is what it is." And obviously, improving isn't easy while complaining is! Pushing buttons all day isn't fun either, especially when the buttons and underlying sub-structures don't work as advertised/as they should.

Everything depends upon the quality of experience . . . just as no man lives or dies to himself, so no experience lives and dies to itself. Isn't Planeshift supposed to be about the WHOLE experience? If the experience with a broken and tedious questing system, or having playable races removed from playability (when they should have actually been reserved until ready to play) an experience with Planeshift? All the experiences COMBINED is what makes up the Planeshift experience, and when enough of the small experiences fail, it reflects badly on the whole. To tell a user, who complains about something, to just "^&%#-Off," shows elitism and a total lack of respect of ALL players. Any experience is mis-educative that has the effect of arresting or distorting the growth of further experience.

The bad teacher tells his pupil he was wrong. The good teacher tells his pupil how to advance.

Or in a different way: Complaining is easy. Improving is not.

"Only a teacher? Thank God I have a calling to the greatest profession of all! I must be vigilant every day lest I lose one fragile opportunity to improve tomorrow." Ivan Welton Fitzwater

Who is the teacher and who is the student?
"Instruction begins when you, the teacher, learn from the learner; put yourself in his place so that you may understand . . . what he learns and the way he understands it." Soren Kierkegaard

Quote from: shrapnel on September 05, 2011, 12:01:21 pm

It's not fun when quests leave you clueless, or frustrated because you don't know where to go, who to see, or if you have to initiate the conversation by typing, or hoping the dialog box pops up all the time.  Players can't directly do much about it, except file bug reports where it's a bug, and grumble when it's not. Devs need more people with all the right access to all the appropriate code and IP to fix it properly.

Heres the thing, the only time I recall the message box ever popping up for 'any' quest, is when you give the ol, I need a quest, chat, the box pops up to accept or deny, never after that, That does NOT mean you have to type the rest of the quest, if you right click the npc and hit them lips, you get your next set of choices..

PERHAPS I should have been clearer. There are times when even clicking on those red lips turns up a No Quest Information message, when I've heard rumors that the quest exists, but you have to manually initiate it by typing.  IF the NPC expects a reply, AND the converstion was started with the dialog box, what reason is there for it NOT popping up automatically with your pre-scripted responses (that any others, will get the don't understand messages, or in some quests, give you them with an answer from the dialog box) I did figure out the lips-thing AFTER I posted that initially, but... I ultimately still see no future here if devs don't want to find out why people abandon PS and take the reasons into consideration. They just might as well just get a live-chat room or two open for RPing (scripted or ad-libbed)

Like I said before, I can understand the lack of DEV team, GMs, Testers, etc... after all, they are all non-paying positions held by those who have faith in this game's existence, Believe deeply in the Genre, or need the experience to get hired by a commercial studio. What I don't understand is why it seems like the environment FAILS and then drives people off (Since I've been back, I think I've only seen a player count in the mid-thirties, compared to 100+ back then. that's better than a 50% loss.)

<sigh>
I'll agree saying "This game is not fun" and stopping there is poor. After all no real feedback there. The Admins and Devs need to listen though too. Looking at this game I have to wonder if it tried being too big right out of the gate. A smaller world would leave more time to develop sub-systems better. It's too late now, unless someone wants to "reboot" the world and everything in it. Even then people would complain.

I see systems that don't have enough people working on them, for the size of the project. I see some poor organization as to the breakdown to the mechanics and sub-system maintenance required.  This includes the quest sub-system with all its broken quests and parts that don't mesh well at the moment. I can see some opacity in the ground I walk on and see the skybox underneath. I can see where some terrain meshes don't connect, or don't connect right and the holes left behind.

I started playing around 2006-7, the last of the 0.3.x period and stopped around 0.4.0, not to come back until 0.5.7, and some changes. Some good, some that were "What the..." moments. I left because the game was starting to get boring, even with friends. Then I come back to a game that in some ways seems to have taken a few steps backward while trying to improve. I feel this game has a lot of potential, it just isn't realizing it because some things are too complicated or not explained clearly enough.

It's fun when you got friends to play with... Solution: make friends and play with them.

It's not fun when quests leave you clueless, or frustrated because you don't know where to go, who to see, or if you have to initiate the conversation by typing, or hoping the dialog box pops up all the time.  Players can't directly do much about it, except file bug reports where it's a bug, and grumble when it's not. Devs need more people with all the right access to all the appropriate code and IP to fix it properly.

It's not so fun when before you took a break, your character could take on an ulber alone and win, just to come back and find that so many below an ulber are now hard to beat, AND EVEN WORSE: The gage used to determine if a monster is something you  can tackle says you have a chance, only to have your life redirected to the death realm 3-5 hits from the monster later. I understand balancing, but I can't understand a system that says you have a chance to win a fight when you can't.

I'd suggest the devs get together somehow, and revisit all the design documentation, and how they can get it back on track, while not being afraid to cut what has been found to be bad, and try something else if need be. The devs need more people to help. 8+ years is a LONG time, for any game. (Someone brought up Duke Nukem Forever, A game where the graphics can show when they were developed, and game play showing nothing original and cutting edge like Duke Nukem 3D did when it was new.)

Would I help? I dunno. But, if the vision for this game is lost, the game is sure to follow.