Carry this to in game, it highly reasonable to think that the first few times you try to repair something with a low/the starting level of repair on a character working on a high quality item, that you will ultimately do more damage to it than what it already had done to it.  Work on lower quality items to see better results with your low repair level, and work on raising your repair level higher to expect to have better results on repairing higher quality items.  At least, that's how I understand things.

I started a new character to "test" balance from the ground up, and this doesn't match up to what I'm seeing.

With weapon repair 0, I'm only allowed to try to repair a few select daggers, short swords etc. No talk about even attempting to repair a high quality item.

With weapon repair 0 and a short sword at 17/50, I was able to repair it to something like 24/47 in my first try. That wasn't so bad! It also gave me 5 PP on the spot, which is more than I gained from wearing it down by fighting. Subsequent tries (two or three of them) repaired the sword to 43/43, and left me with weapon repair 1 (and 5 PP each time).

What I really like is that the actual practice needed seems a bit more reasonable (lower) than before.

Perhaps the system is only bogus at high levels? Because so far I'm very pleased with how this works. 

I find this idea attractive if an attempt at rebalancing is done simultaneously with the wipe:

• lower the PP and tria requirements for levelling for mid-to-high levels
• bring the output of the currently imbalanced PP and tria sources in line with the underused options

I also think that the first 75 levels (any skill or combination) should be relatively cheaper to acquire, making it easier to get a character started in one direction (or a few), and comparatively harder to master all. Perhaps the cost could gradually rise from 25% of the current to 100% over the first 75 skill levels. This would make it easier for RP's to play a smith, mage etc., or prepare an alt for a specific RP, while not really impacting that much on the PLer who wants to master 4 or 5 disciplines.

At the same time, learning a new skill shouldn't be as easy and cheap as it is now (getting most skills that can be used in any situation up to level 5 is very easy right now).

Red liquor!

I mean, why else make tria in this game? 

Polarizing this thread into "enforcing RP" vs being "tolerant" to all ways of playing the game isn't really fair.

The RP'ers have pointed out that there is a fundamental problem for RP on the "tolerant" side: when faced with blatant OOC circumvention of settings or disruptive OOC-driven play, there is only a choice of lesser evils, all of which blow one's own RP.

• Engaging the out-of-settings play in an IC-manner will actually validate it as RP.
• Ignoring it will work for some kind of out-of-settings descriptions and such, but not for disruptive OOC-driven play (example: bystanders are killed in front of you in the plaza). It will actually be very OOC for the RPer in the latter case.

This situation is completely skewed one-sidedly against the RP'er!

Note that addressing the problem OOC is a valiant attempt to get at the source of the problem, which will work in the case of a player who is just casually disruptive or against settings or a new player discovering his style of play. However, in a lot of cases (and these are the cases described here), it will not help since the player is committed to his play. In any case, this is a break in the flow of RP and an IC solution will have to be found anyway unless the disrupting player backs off from his play completely.

I think it's not very constructive to put forward as only solution to this problem of "what can *we* do about it?" that "*you* just need to learn to cope with it". That may or may not be the case, but it doesn't answer the question (or rather, gives "nothing can be done" as an answer).

The "tolerant" approach is not to try to blend all styles of play into one, but to try to identify different needs and address them as such.

The "enforcing" approach should not create out-of-game or in-game processes, institutions or committees which will not be able to work transparently and consistently over time or have a punishing nature. (one-time wipes - not that they might not be a good idea for other reasons - or guild-approval committees fall in this category)

Useful questions (while understanding that the game is far from complete yet) are:
1. How do existing mechanics or game aspects fail to protect and foster "deep RP"?
2. What does the game or settings lack for players that seek more excitement that could be there at this point of development?

The first question probably has been discussed a lot already. For me particularly, these things stand out:

• character progression is practically impossible to achieve ICly unless you play a gladiator-miner  
• quests are a great way to get introduced to the settings gradually, but there are not enough of them that are linked to the settings rather than being of a personal nature, and many quests are very OOC to complete for various characters, but still necessary to gain some item or glyph (or winch access?)
• there is no kind of in-game bulletin or message board or rumor system other than leaving books in various places
• the faction system is of no consequence

The second question I don't see discussed much:

• Yliakum apparently doesn't hold a lot of conflict. The races get along well, the government is stable, and luckily there's no black-and-white good vs evil struggle going on. But for the newcomer, this set-up is extremely hard to position oneself in. It feels almost placid. Now I understand that there are intrigues, corruption on various levels, and other realms with beings looking to get into Yliakum all waiting to be discovered or unleashed on the players, but all this seems pretty fictional to the players (who can merely read about it in various books).
• Apparently, we need some dramatic windswept mountain ledge that served as a long-standing duelling or tournament spot...
• There are few places in the game that hold danger, and those that do don't lead to anywhere (...apparently...). Of course this is largely limited by NPC AI, too. But it's not like these places encourage players to group up for an expedition (unless RP'ed).

To sum it up... (not meaning to criticize the devs here, but to point out what could need more attention)

• there's too little to do in-settings for people who seek some excitement, which is why they bring it to others (possibly disruptively)
• there's too few means for people who try to progress their characters' ICly
• and the mechanics don't bring these two aspects together enough

I was waiting for this and I don't blame you for thinking it is unethical.
The point however is not to ridicule anyone with a disorder but rather to portray what it could be like if this would happen to you.

I am glad you took my rash post this gently - I think I portrayed my concerns wrongly and I commend Garris on pointing out the fault quite correctly.

My post came after experiencing crude RP with a character who pointed to his description (which proclaimed his character as a thief/bandit) as an excuse to "sneak up to" other characters in the tavern and at Harnquists, demand circles and then challenge for a duel.

I applaud anyone who thinks up a complex character with a back-story and then takes his time to act this out. But I also think that some people might see this as a cheap ticket out of consistent RP. Every character has its light and dark sides, and it's interesting to see them interact and sometimes develop independently (and sometimes together). Multiple personalities in this respect gives the (irresponsible) player an enormous freedom. (If done correctly, the interactions between the personalities will still have to be dealt with)

What I fear is that by making this a guild, you are giving people a chance to join this guild in order to receive a guild association that will allow them to act around normal confines of RP not by merit of a well-thought out character, but by merely pointing out guild membership. I believe there are already several people playing these conditions by personal effort alone.

The guildtag is only to help you ignore us if you are a sane person.

Are you saying the guildtag is merely as an identifier for this kind of roleplay in the eyes of others? Can "to help you ignore us" be understood then that we have to be prepared for whatever you want to throw at us?

Uh, wait.... I think I'm just getting it... this is not a guild of the afflicted, but of the voices / personalities that affect them?  If so, wow.   

Thanks for the thorough explanation, which surprised me in quite a few respects. 

I hadn't thought of the use of alts for this, and the trick with the closet (can you buy those somewhere?) and the alt is clever. Luring monsters with magic is also a good solution to an obvious problem.

In any case, I guess the players were aware that you were running the event (seems like you made that clear beforehand), and expected some kind of moderation of events (resolving the digging and handing out the items found).

What is the coolest looking weapon?
pie used as a melee weapon

What is the worst looking weapon?
claymore in a dwarf's hand

What is the coolest looking city?
Ojaveda

What is the worst looking city?
Gugrontid - makes me feel dizzy

What is the coolest looking enemy?
Grendol

What is the worst looking enemy?
Trepor, Dark Rogues

What is the coolest looking spell?
umm, Freeze? (coolest, get it?)

What is the worst looking spell?
Touch of Death, Rock Armor

What is the coolest looking race?
Dwarves, Ywnn

What is the worst looking race?
female Ylian, Lemur and Xacha

I wonder if the Devs could look through the database and retrieve book contents in the inventories of characters who haven't been played for 2 years or more. Those books could then be added as the "antiquity" section to whatever books the Knowledge Seekers assess for their project.

I mean surely there must be gems among those "lost books"  ...