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Messages - bugabear

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PvP,PK and Thieving /

« on: June 18, 2003, 02:13:14 am »

The meaning of life soley depends on the individual. The meaning of life even today is a topic of great discussion in the religious world as is any topic of god(s). Just because you feel continueing this discussion is pointless does not mean that I feel the same, nor will I feel the same. The game may not be even recieve any updates for a considerablely long time, but I feel a topic of this scale should recieve considerable debate before finalizing.

The topic of wether or not this post is worth discussing is irrelevant to the subject or my posts and this forum, as it has nothing with player killing, and as well if the topic was not ment to be debated it would not have its own individual forum.
Right?

PvP,PK and Thieving / What am i doing?

« on: June 14, 2003, 01:46:11 am »

Umm, yah, so here I am, sitting here, and wondering. It\'d be pretty cool to have a no PK environment. I could mine all day, make myself some weapons. Sell my weapons. Make some coin. And do this... Day in, day out. Without a care in the world. No one is going to kill me so what do I care. Making better and better weapons untill one day, I decide... What happened to my life or I decide there\'s no point in this.
In any game, if i have had that oppertunity I took it. I still do. I love to mine, or to be a lumberjack, or anything. I think its great. But I am all for the ability to attack another player on a global scale. I play a game for a sence of alernate reality. Being able to mine or be a lumberjack is awsome. Something I can\'t do everyday of my life. But I need conflict. Something that a AI monster who is in a constant spot \"constantly\" can give me. I need the ability to make alliances for protection against others and the ability to take action against other players.
Lets say I have my favorite mining spot. I go to it and find a little newbie in it. I tell him nicely, this is my \"private\" spot, and you should leave. If he doesnt listen, I am forced to take action. I can injure him substancially but not kill him, giving the warning he deserves. Or (in a non player killing environment), talk him to death...
I know being able to be killed by other players can cause grief. And I know the ability to put in to place a system that controls the ability to kill other players is grief also. But the fact is, if your putting yourself through the pain, joys, and pleasures of making a MMORPG that is enjoyable for everyone, the grief of implementing a player killing system should be insignificant to the amount of grief of making the game as an entirity...
I as a player, would really like to see this game reach its full potential, with or without the ability to kill another player. I personally feel (PERSONALLY) that player killing, used in the right way on a massive scale, could provide a indepth feeling that few games have acheived...

My opinion, you dont goto like it, you just goto read it and look at it both ways. Go to \"More on Pk\'ing\" post if u wana read my basic system that i propose could make Pking somewhat \"real\", its on the last page.

Put your pride aside, and don\'t be so quick to judge...

PvP,PK and Thieving /

« on: June 13, 2003, 05:50:09 pm »

I\'m sorry but I did perceive it to be offensive. I clearly stated a system and you denied it to be one without clarifying what exactly a system, in your definition would be. I am sorry, but you mustn\'t be so hastily to judge what I?m saying...
But also, this was not directed towards you as an individual but the population on these boards as a whole. As you read it, I stated that you must approach this question from both side\'s; the players who believe that a game must be open to allow all sorts of things from player killing to mining, or the side who believes that that a game must be open to allow all sorts of things but disallow player killing on a public front. Many are too quick to judge others opinions and take no time to consider how each person feels and how each set of rules will affect the game as a whole.

PvP,PK and Thieving /

« on: June 13, 2003, 01:42:26 am »

Quote:
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Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist.
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Quote:
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What is an example of a theme park where murdering other customers is allowed?
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You must of misunderstood when said danger is exciting. What i meant is, that well, \"danger is exciting\". Yah know? Well no, i guess that might be a little vauge i gues so I\'ll explain it. Danger is exciting, the thrill of falling, the thrill of flying around and around with the threat of possible diing in the back of your mind, the thrill of being scared in a haunted house ((woot theres the murder part

lol well sorry no like a haunted house if your really into the whole ghost thing it would be kinda scared that things would come and kill you )). So seeing that it may not be \"technically\" MURDER, but in a way it is the fear of death by something. There is always the possiblity of a carnie being vicious and killing someone, or a thug who decides he\'s bored of stealing and wants to try a new route.
But yah getting to the point danger is exciting in those forms. This is a computer game so how would falling be exciting? Sure a monster coming at you might be thrilling, or exciting, but the challange of actually being that monster is tantalizing to some. Why take away that, and question, im not 2 clear sometimes, but did you understand what i was getting at or not in the posts?

You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to. And please, none of these \"ooh im smater than you look you mest up in your post so im guna point it out to you, or ooh look at me im shutting him down hard in one way or another. Please all i ask is constructively critize what im saying and put your pride aside.

PvP,PK and Thieving /

« on: June 12, 2003, 10:48:31 pm »

More to add to my \"system\" (basiclly agree\'ing with current idea\'s so dont get cranky at me)

5) I belive having an arena would be a great addition to any game. In this way characters who wish to battle can do so without having consequences of any kind. Also putting in a tournament ranking system into it where characters who get defeated are eliminated and having prizes at the end would be cool.

6) Guild wars would also be appropriate but wouldnt it be hard to control. It could draw in unneccessary characters who are part of neither guild into it. So i guess what you would have to do is either pick a time/place for these fights or define certain area\'s/grounds for these fights be it a guild\'s land/territory or a place far from anywhere.

7) Having a system of Honor. Where the characters who defeat monsters more powerful than themselves, battle characters above his level and winning and or performing heroic deads would gain points toward this. There would be levels (similar to a game called utopia however it is not a rpg) which would rank the character. The system is utopia is something like this (not exactly acurate but you can get the idea) Peasant - Knight - Lord - Baron - Count - VisCount - Prince. Its something like this, and at each level the character gets moderate bonus\'s for it. The bonus\'s would not be enough to make one \"god\" but enough to give him the incentive to follow this path. But also have an additional counter path. One were it goes the opposite way, have it also gain bonus\'s but different ones. More towards the evil side of things. Yah know?

Back to the PK\'ing issue which is as I can tell \"extreamly\" touchy for most people on this forum. One can not have a well played game without PK\'ing for this fundamental reason. Life is unfair, deal with it. Not everything goes your way always. Why should it be any different in a game? I know, I know, its a game, games are for fun. No one wants to be a blacksmith and constantly fear that he could be knifed to death or mugged by a fearless thief. I myself have played a game called faldon, i was a miner, i enjoyed going mining for minerals, making me some weapons, selling them and what not. But it got old eventually, something was lacking... Danger was lacking... Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist. There needs to be something more... real. Sure theres the constant danger a monster might come after you, but thats regular, its normal and in most cases predictable... You can fight it, or just go mining where there arent any monsters. Whats not predictable is when that thief or assassin will jump out of the shadows, tell you that your life is over, and kill you in cold blood. Simply put, a game needs danger, more than what a simple AI monster can give it. It needs conflict, more than what a programmer can create. It needs... all i can think of the word to use is chaos...

Thanks for reading, my opinion, my \"system\" i think it\'d be cool. You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to. No one right now is considering. It\'s not in place. You need not flame, yell, swear or scream at me. What you need to do as a player who wish\'s to see this game reach its \"full potential\" and by all means, if this game is developed properlly, I belive it could one of, and maybe even \"the best\", is to constructively critize the points and views of both the people who wish to have the ability to kill another players (I do not like the word PK all that much since it is in most cases branded as bad) and those who wish to not allow such a thing on a public scale.

These are my views...

PvP,PK and Thieving /

« on: June 12, 2003, 10:46:00 pm »

Define \"SYSTEM\" please, i don\'t understand how that could be anything but a system of using pk\'ing effectively in a game. But what do I know... Just seemed to be a valid way of using pk\'ing... Don\'t goto get cranky at me...

General Discussion /

« on: June 12, 2003, 03:18:38 pm »

and that is the simple reason why i put the nice little word \"N o t\" and the other nice little word \" V e r y\" and the final even nicer word of them all \" M a n y\'

A thank you

PvP,PK and Thieving /

« on: June 12, 2003, 03:17:00 pm »

Didn\'t i just explain a basic system...
i know that post wasnt directed to me, but didn\'t you read mine?

PvP,PK and Thieving / omg im guna get flammed i figured for this

« on: June 12, 2003, 04:27:46 am »

Ok, here me out! Before you start typing your message on how BAD pk\'ing is, listen to me.
In the world many people die every day, be them bakers, miners, cops or buisness people. Death is life, and life leads to death. It\'s a basic fundemental rule for reality.
Now building on this... I understand PlaneShift is not \"reality\" in any way shape for form, but should not the basic\'s still apply? If you wish to be an assassin working for a rich person, you do not have that oppertunity.
The MAJOR problem with pking however in every game is the fact that it is abused to such an extent that almost everyone belives that it is a bad thing. But you goto look at it both ways.
Lets say there\'s this stupid little newbie talking big, you try to ignore him but then he starts bad mouthing you... What are you guna do? Go tell a mod that he\'s making fun of you? W00t you sure are a bad mambajamba now boy arent you. However if pk\'ing was allowed, you could put him in his place right there right then.
But as sweet as that might be it posses a problem. You can\'t just go killing people! Reality or not. Where\'s the morals!?

So i pose an ultimatum...

1) Allow pk\'ing in all shapes and forms, in all places 100% of the time. ( i know this must infuriate you allready)

2) If you are attacking someone, who does not wish to fight in any sence, they imidiatly get a defencive bonus that would be more than enough to ward off basic newbie pk\'ers

3) As in real life, murder/attempted murder cause\'s consequinces... You are now branded as a killer, and will be labeled as such for the duration of the game. In towns the police (which if you do what i propose) will hunt you down if you enter the limits of the town. Bounty hunters could even be issued awards for your head. Merchant\'s feel no point in dealing with you, so getting equipment will be almost impossible (unless a black market is implimented which could make things extremely interesting)

4) Now that you have been tagged, weighted and judged, killers and non killers alike have the opportunity to kill you without being branded a murderer themselves. If you wish you could even allow a killer who kills another killer to loose there status as a murderer. Now bounties could be collected and everything

I believe in this way, pk\'ing could be managed. Theif guilds / evil guilds could be made. The game as a whole I think could be significantly improved. The bakers and the miners, they can still go about there lives. The fear of death by murder will never be that close. But the fact of the matter is it must be there...

my 6 cents...
flame away boys and girls

General Discussion / The whole class vrs life thing

« on: June 12, 2003, 04:03:15 am »

Anyways, back onto topic, the problem with what your saying in the way life progresses is that you cant start a game as a very young teen, it would make no sence. How many games actually have age as a factor in them? Not very many. However what your saying has some point to it. It needs a little modifying but it could work pretty well.
During life you as a person and the people around pretty much have some idea where there going. Also the family they grew up in also is a large factor in what they want to become. ie. you want to be a doctor so you study a bit of biology, you want to be a lawyer you take law, your dad was in the army so during your entire life you looked up to him and wanted to be just like him. This isnt always true but these are just examples. So what im saying it have a few basic classes and the ability to pick from these classes.
Say warrior, mystic, and priest. Seem narrow? Really they arent. A warrior can become many things, he can find the light of god, become a theif, work for a king ect. The Mystic studies magic, he can aproach magic from many basic angles, be it nature, or holy, or even a dark art. The priest belives religion is the key, he perhaps feels that it is his duty to protect the word of god becoming a monk or even a paladin, he may feel he should preach the word and have god cover his back. The fact of the matter is, if you allow a character to branch 2 many times you get a mest up game unless properlly balance.
Here is an example. Lets say were playing mikes magic rpg of doomp, and pertend were a wizard. Throughout each level i keep gaining newer and newer spells from a variety of things. In the end i have all the spells in the game and can kill most monsters in under 3 hits.
Now think of the logic in this, who, in there right mind, and being human, would have enough time to study every form of magic, be it in the art of nature, the light or holy arts, the dart arts and so far. Perhaps what would happen is that you feel the art of nature is more of what you like best. So you start studying the basic fundamentals of it. You learn some basic spells from all forms of nature, water, ice, rock, lightning and so forth. Then you realize, wow, i really like how lightning works, so you begin to study the lightning form of nature magic, as study you learn powerful and powerful spells of these and the spells you allready know get more and more useful and stronger. No spell would be useless to you because whats the point of even making a useless spell? (ie diablo II, uhg some of the skills/spells, totally no point in having singleplayer or b.net).
Now the name mystic still applys to you but you are so much more, you are extremely skilled in the art of nature in the form of lightning. Sure, you come upon a monster who is immune to lightning in all shapes and forms, but there is where the \"P A R T Y\" system is usefull. It allows players to specialize and work together as a team.
As for a warrior, you belive that strength, your wits, and your will, in all situations will bring you through. Its a cruel world and if you cant stand up for yourself no one is going to. But lets say the whole \"law thing\" just aint working for you. You beging to not listen to anyone, look out for only yourself, steal things, you become in a sence a \"petty\" thug. Whether you continue down this path or not, it doesnot matter, what matters is the skills you learnt from doing this stick with you, so if you develope them further you become more of a skilled thief than a petty thug.
Well as you can see the whole \"class change\" thing really doesnt apply to this. YOU develope your character as in how YOU would think YOUR character would act in the game. You wana be a thief? Steal! You wana study magic? Study magic for gods sake! Belive in god? Become a priest!
Not saying that each basic \"class\" (warrior, mystic, priest) should be allowed to perform certain actions. It should actually be encouraged. How many mystic theives do you think there are? (well none now but its not a question to be answered :p) problem is there is almost no oppertunity to do that in any games that i know of prolly some. What im actually saying is that being a warrior gives u the bonus of starting with the basic skills to become a theif or a knight, and that the mystic has the basic skills to become a wizard or sorceror or even a druid, and that the priest has the basic skills to become a monk or a paladin or a shawman...
In this way each character can develope his/her own personallity...

Try to make sence of this i know it must be garbled.
And remeber! This is in all entirity \"MY\" opinion.

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