l33tsp34k translation

[Darakus]

Originally posted by Draklar
Did someone actually said anything about enforcing old english?

I was only referring to a comment made about certain words being unappropriate for a medieval setting because not in the dictionnary by remarking that medieval english as such was fixed by no rules and thus no words could be excluded from being spoken ingame for such a reason (except of course for leatspeek and common acronyms which did not exist in those times).

It had nothing to do with the developper\'s decision to enforce the translation of leat language to common english which I approve of.  Of course this could also be done by making leat one of the strange dialects spoken inside PS )

Note : Enforcing old english, twould be a right nice idea as it would basically suppress all rules about how to write and using french as part of a phrase (old french of course) )

[Draklar]

Well that comment was, of course, right.
If people will see:

omg, w00t, pwn3d, l8r - it will give them chat feeling
ain\'t, gonna, betcha - it will give them modern feeling
shan\'t, forsooth, alas - it will give them medieval feeling

Also, I can\'t find Grono saying anything about dictionary.

[Kiva]

Originally posted by Draklar
Well that comment was, of course, right.
If people will see:

omg, w00t, pwn3d, l8r - it will give them chat feeling
ain\'t, gonna, betcha - it will give them modern feeling
shan\'t, forsooth, alas - it will give them medieval feeling

Also, I can\'t find Grono saying anything about dictionary.

You are actually defending me Draklar? Gee... I never thought I\'d live to see that.

Anyway, I\'m going to start moving stuff up to the first post, so... Yeah. Then it\'ll be easier to get an overview of things.

[Darakus]

@Draklar  : the word Dictionary is not mentioned as such but making a statement saying it is not a word refers to a dictionary as no other reference could be used to confirm the validity, or not, of a word.

shan\'t and alas give me a renaissance feel not a medieval one ) if you want to go medieval look up middle english or old english, here\'s an extract of middle :

1: The double sorwe of Troilus to tellen,
2: That was the kyng Priamus sone of Troye,
3: In louynge how his auentures fellen
4: ffro wo to wele, and after out of ioie,
5: My purpos is, er that I parte fro ye.
6: Thesiphone, thow help me for tendite
7: Thise woful vers that wepen as I write.

8: To the clepe I, thow goddesse of torment,
9: Thow cruwel furie, sorwynge euere in peyne,
10: Help me that am the sorwful instrument
11: That helpeth loueres, as I kan, to pleyne;
12: ffor wel sit it, the sothe for to seyne,
13: A woful wight to han a drery feere,
14: And to a sorwful tale a sory chere.

15: ffor I, that god of loues seruantz serue,
16: Ne dar to loue, for myn vnliklynesse,
17: Preyen for speed, al sholde I ther-fore sterue,
18: So fer am I from his help in derknesse;
19: But natheles, if this may don gladnesse
20: To any louere and his cause auaille,
21: Haue he my thonk, and myn be this trauaille.
 
I\'ll spare you old english as I do not believe anyone would understand it but if you feel like looking here is a nice reference :

http://www.georgetown.edu/labyrinth/

That said I understand what you mean about the modern feel and will not add to the polemic anymore since there is certainly no need for that )

[Stydracos]

Note : Enforcing old english, twould be a right nice idea as it would basically suppress all rules about how to write and using french as part of a phrase (old french of course)

Completely at a loss to what your saying. I think you are saying old english has no rules? anything goes... and has its bases in french?

Well by my understanding old english is considered apart of the germanic based languages it borrows heavily from Celtic and Latin (latin more important).
It was also called Anglo-Saxon, of which there are 4 dialects each with different rules/spelling. Considering most of us (including native speakers) struggle enough as it  is with english I doubt inforcing a language twice removed and over a 1000 years old is the way to go.  So my vote goes towards not enforcing old english .

Hopefully you don\'t take offence I truly don\'t understand the above comments to the effect that \"its not fixed by rules\"... as old english has rules like any other language. Anyway I said I\'m a little confused so forgive  for my ignorance.

Not to mention this thread is at risk of heading off topic...

*edit* damn it you just added another thread saying you\'d doubt anyone would understand it and to add to it you throw in middle english... now I\'m at a complete loss /me shrugs then runs away */edit*

*another edit * to the below, what I\'m saying though is it wasn\'t as easy as in the majority of the case only the priests and nobility were privy or could afford to learn, therefore it was hardly a language of the people. Though if I\'m right you are talking of the spoken/common language, the slang of its time... ok your right this can get interesting but... lets not go there and let the thread sail its merry l337 course. Thanks though for getting me and not taking it the wrong way (as I am always worried I come across as such). */edit*

[Darakus]

Hello Sty,

You\'re right of course about old english (or anglo-saxon) which I wouldn\'t wish on anyone, I barely understand it myself (although Bora might be more successfull in the endeavor).  But after the invasion by the Duke of Normandy the mix between old french and old english gave as result middle english which contains a lot of words belonging to old french.

As for the rules, well you have to keep in mind that we are not speaking here about the written language, where some conventions (mostly concerning the form of phrases as words were read and written phonetically) did exist to enable it\'s reading by other persons, but about the spoken language (and not the one of the nobility alone but the one of the people also).

I hope this clarifies my previous post.

And you are right we are heading off topic so this will the last thing I post on the subject even though it is an interesting one

[Tarachnul]

i dont really have any new ones just wanted to point something out

wtf can equal what the **** OR  where the ****

oh and i didnt see wth(what/where the hell)

(just realized that I forgot to say that it can mean why as well)

[mromu'e fanza]

I think there is a distinction that can be made (even if not always clearly) between two types of this \'l33tsp34k\':

1) Chat abbreviations and \'txt spk\': \"u r\" -> \"you are\", \"4\" -> \"for\", \"ne1\" -> \"anyone\", etc.  These serve a useful purpose - cutting down the amount of typing needed - which is normally why they are used.

2) WR1+1|\\|6 3V3RY+|-|1N6 1|\\| |\\|U|\\/|B3RZ N 5Y|\\/|B0L5 N R0|\\|G SP3L1N6 just to make it look \'cool\' - or at least, the people who do this somehow manage to think it does.

IMHO, the second should be called \'l33tsp34k\', the first should not.

However, I agree that abbreviations like \"ne1\" are inappropriate for Planeshift (and most RPGs), so I think it would be a good idea to allow automatic replacement of them by \'real\' words; this would still allow players to use the abbreviations to shorten what they type, without spoiling the game; this should also be customisable by the player so they can add any extra abbreviations they want to use.


P.S. anyone who hasn\'t already seen it should check out the \'Hacker\' language translation of Google: http://www.google.com/intl/xx-hacker/