Anyone know where I can get a decent laptop?

[ajdaha]

I\'m trying to install WoW on this computer, but it says that my ram is too low and the computer speed is too low. Yet I want to install the game anyway, to see what happens. Xcept, when I try it, the Cd-Rom makes this huge sound and I\'m worried the CD might crack or something, cause I\'ve actually had a CD crack in such a way.
It was scary.

[fken]

What\'s your configuration ?

[ajdaha]

MY speed is something like 517 mhz or something close to that. Yes its very slow, but it works on very demanding games sometimes, somehow.
 And Ram, hmm. I would guess that it was 128, I mean, it can\'t be 64 right? Right?

[fken]

Win Xp could work with 64Mb I think... but it\'s really dumb!
To use Win XP without problem you have to use at least 256Mb.
517Mhz with a 32bit cpu is too slow... you can use ADSL, officelike, little games, a s o.
But ps must be slow under your computer... isnt it? If not I would have a new for you (Im using ps with a laptop p4 2GHz, 512Mb,ATI radeon mobility agp4x 32Mb, HD PCMCIA 5400rd/min).
Wow and l2 dont work under my computer... if you want to buy a laptop be prepared to pay a lot for a slow computer.

[Nada]

Originally posted by fken
WHAT!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding ?
one dollars->0,70-0,75euros
so the price of the computer would be 1500euros even if its in USA

At current conversion rate 1200Euroes->$1500, but I find that computer prices in the US are at least $100 lower and if you buy a refurbished system you can save $300, if not more.

Originally posted by fken
I really think it would be better to think about what you are saying before saying.
SCSI -> 15000 rd per min
SATA -> 10500 rd per min
PCMCIA -> 5400 rd per min

I really think it would be better to think about what you are saying before you say anything. Unless I\'m much mistaken PCMCIA stands for Personal Computer Memory Card International Association and it\'s the standard for external PC Cards which you plug into your laptop. As far as I know internal laptop HDDs use PATA and more recently SATA.
2.5\" drives (desktop ones are 3.5\" ) come in speeds of 4200, 5400, 7500 RPM. At comparable speeds and technology, laptop HDDs might even have a slight advantage because they\'re plug directly into the connector (there\'s no cable and this reduces possible interference in the case of PATA). Note that another factor that affects performance in the size of the HDD cache.

Originally posted by fken
the Desktop graphic card need big fan because its really hot... Do you really think you could use the same graphic cards with laptop?

>> Geforce \"Go\" and Radeon \"Mobility\". They generally have power-saving features. The very high-end chips are found in desktop-replacement systems because of the weight additional cooling solutions entail. And they don\'t come cheap either.

How many ram can you have with a laptop?

1024MB in general, 2048MB on high-end systems (usually there are only two slots).

how many GB of HD ?

Many laptops come with 80GB or 100GB now although at 4200-5400 RPM

What\'s the speed of the cdrom ? dvdrom? cd - dvd recorder?

Something like 24X for CD and 8X for DVD.

what about mother board clock?
If you\'re referring to the system bus, that\'s 400MHz or 533MHz for Centrino, I think its 800MHz FSB for the P4.

What about sound card?

On-chip AC97 (4.1 channel surround sound) or Intel High Definition Audio (DTS, THX and all Dolby technologies, including Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby Pro Logic II, and Dolby Pro Logic IIx). That\'s suitable for most people. If you\'re really an audio enthusiast, there are very solutions from Creative.

Originally posted by fken
there is a new mmorpg (I dont remember the name) which sometimes can only reach 7 frames per seconds with one of the best home personal computer)

Well not everybody wishes to play at 2048x1536 resolution with 4x Anti-aliasing.

cpu: there is a difference between 64bits and 32bits cpu. My advice is 64bits ...

I don\'t think there\'s any real tangible performance increase that can be attributed to the processor being 64bit unless you\'ve got software which is tailored for it. However since a 64bit system is not more expensive than a 32bit one, why not? You can always boast about it.

Originally posted by ajdaha
my ram is too low and the computer speed is too low. Yet I want to install the game anyway, to see what happens. Xcept, when I try it, the Cd-Rom makes this huge sound

I don\'t think you can correlate the two problems. I would guess the reasoning could be: small amount of RAM/slow CPU -> old system -> old CD drive. Don\'t really know.

I would guess that it was 128, I mean, it can\'t be 64 right? Right?
64MB is the minimum supported amount of RAM in WinXP. It\'s been reported to \"work\". I fail to believe it. As fken said, WinXP needs 256MB. The maximum limit is 4GB.

[ajdaha]

Except that I don\'t have XP but 98 second edition.

I did however, run PS pretty well. My computer runs counter-strike pretty well too. And not on super low detail either.
I think there might be something else besides ram and cpu speed that affects how well my computer works.

[fken]

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
WHAT!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding ?
one dollars->0,70-0,75euros
so the price of the computer would be 1500euros even if its in USA

At current conversion rate 1200Euroes->$1500, but I find that computer prices in the US are at least $100 lower and if you buy a refurbished system you can save $300, if not more.

so you wont tell me you are saying everything to be right... Im ok for the100$ lower

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
I really think it would be better to think about what you are saying before saying.
SCSI -> 15000 rd per min
SATA -> 10500 rd per min
PCMCIA -> 5400 rd per min

I really think it would be better to think about what you are saying before you say anything. Unless I\'m much mistaken PCMCIA stands for Personal Computer Memory Card International Association and it\'s the standard for external PC Cards which you plug into your laptop. As far as I know internal laptop HDDs use PATA and more recently SATA.
2.5\" drives (desktop ones are 3.5\" ) come in speeds of 4200, 5400, 7500 RPM. At comparable speeds and technology, laptop HDDs might even have a slight advantage because they\'re plug directly into the connector (there\'s no cable and this reduces possible interference in the case of PATA). Note that another factor that affects performance in the size of the HDD cache.

I had a computer which used PCMCIA format for the HD but first it was old and moreover as it was a laptop that someone gave me for free Im wondering if the HD was the main one...
But off course PCMCIA HD exists...

Originally posted by Nada

Originally posted by fken
the Desktop graphic card need big fan because its really hot... Do you really think you could use the same graphic cards with laptop?

>> Geforce \"Go\" and Radeon \"Mobility\". They generally have power-saving features. The very high-end chips are found in desktop-replacement systems because of the weight additional cooling solutions entail. And they don\'t come cheap either.

Laptop graphic cards are specific for laptop: they are expensives and NOT AS POWERFUL AS DESKTOP one!!!

Originally posted by Nada
How many ram can you have with a laptop?

1024MB in general, 2048MB on high-end systems (usually there are only two slots).

how many GB of HD ?

Many laptops come with 80GB or 100GB now although at 4200-5400 RPM

What\'s the speed of the cdrom ? dvdrom? cd - dvd recorder?

Something like 24X for CD and 8X for DVD.

what about mother board clock?
If you\'re referring to the system bus, that\'s 400MHz or 533MHz for Centrino, I think its 800MHz FSB for the P4.

What about sound card?

On-chip AC97 (4.1 channel surround sound) or Intel High Definition Audio (DTS, THX and all Dolby technologies, including Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby Pro Logic II, and Dolby Pro Logic IIx). That\'s suitable for most people. If you\'re really an audio enthusiast, there are very solutions from Creative.

Originally posted by fken
there is a new mmorpg (I dont remember the name) which sometimes can only reach 7 frames per seconds with one of the best home personal computer)

Well not everybody wishes to play at 2048x1536 resolution with 4x Anti-aliasing.

cpu: there is a difference between 64bits and 32bits cpu. My advice is 64bits ...

I don\'t think there\'s any real tangible performance increase that can be attributed to the processor being 64bit unless you\'ve got software which is tailored for it. However since a 64bit system is not more expensive than a 32bit one, why not? You can always boast about it.

Originally posted by ajdaha
my ram is too low and the computer speed is too low. Yet I want to install the game anyway, to see what happens. Xcept, when I try it, the Cd-Rom makes this huge sound

I don\'t think you can correlate the two problems. I would guess the reasoning could be: small amount of RAM/slow CPU -> old system -> old CD drive. Don\'t really know.

I would guess that it was 128, I mean, it can\'t be 64 right? Right?
64MB is the minimum supported amount of RAM in WinXP. It\'s been reported to \"work\". I fail to believe it. As fken said, WinXP needs 256MB. The maximum limit is 4GB.

so to conclude, Nada, you are really objective in your comparaison: you are comparing the very latest technology of the best laptop with the low powerful new desktop... but why? I dunno...
By using your logic I could demonstrate that a Porsche is less powerful than a Renault...
You dont believe in me? The Renault F1 is more powerful than a simple porsche...

And finally to conclude: are you really objective when you say laptop technology is as powerful as desktop one? So you think once they increased their technology they try to create the same power for a laptop and a desktop one? Once they create a littler transistors they dont try to applicate their technology to the desktop one?

When I buy my 166MMX (Intel best processor was the 233MMX), I saw other cpu... amazing one (1,2Ghz and 1,6Ghz... Im not sure but I thinik it was alpha\'s one all I remember was the price : 65000).

Imagine you have all the money of the earth, I you wanna buy a computer: Desktops will always be more powerful than laptops.

[lethe]

i must agree

[ajdaha]

I must nod compliantly.

[Nada]

There is no need to get nasty.

I don\'t get your meaning about those two things:

1 - so you wont tell me you are saying everything to be right...
Do you mean to say I\'m trying to be right or that there\'s something wrong?

2 - you are comparing the very latest technology of the best laptop with the low powerful new desktop
Can\'t guess what a low powerful new desktop is. Even then, 1024MB is the maximum RAM most notebooks can have, 80GB HDD is pretty standard, most Intel-powered laptops use the Pentium M or 4 (the rest being Celeron), AC97 Audio is the cheapest thing you\'ll ever get for sound, Intel HD Audio comes with the new Centrino models but there are 1000euro models. This is not what I would call the best laptop.



But off course PCMCIA HD exists...

I know only of external PCMCIA HDDs. Forgive my ignorance, point me to an internal one for laptops and, if you can, one which is widely available.

Laptop graphic cards are specific for laptop: they are expensives and NOT AS POWERFUL AS DESKTOP one!!!

I said they did not come cheap. I never said they were as powerful. You must admit though that they are not far behind.

you say laptop technology is as powerful as desktop one

Again, I\'ll repeat myself: I never said they were as powerful. You must admit though that they are not far behind.


Now fken, I\'ve been posting in this forum just for a few days, so I\'ll assume that you\'re not doing this in bad faith and that you\'ve just misunderstood me.
Let me recap everything:
- ajdaha asked for recommended specs for $800 -> I gave him the specs for something around what I think will cost $1000-1100.
- he asked about specs for full performance -> I replied by mentionning top-of-the-line mobile graphic chips and said the price range would be $3000-4000
- you said you believed buying a laptop for gaming was silly -> I said it was not necessarily silly if space was very important but that even then one should consider a small-form-factor system first. (As a side note: I\'m renting a 9m squared room (\"chambre d\'?tudiant\" in French, \"student\'s room\" loosely translated), a full desktop system or even a small-form-factor system with a flat screen would take too much space + I can use the Wifi hotspots around where I live or at the university).

To conclude, you say \"No really there is no comparaison\". I say laptops are not as powerful but comparable.

[fken]

Originally posted by Nada
There is no need to get nasty.

I don\'t get your meaning about those two things:

1 - so you wont tell me you are saying everything to be right...
Do you mean to say I\'m trying to be right or that there\'s something wrong?

both of them... I felt your posts like that:
You tried to defend and protect a wrong opinion even if you knew it was wrong. Surely because of the other thread where we first met each other. I know you were saying right things but each time you were doing like if you were contradicting me... but why?

Originally posted by Nada
2 - you are comparing the very latest technology of the best laptop with the low powerful new desktop
Can\'t guess what a low powerful new desktop is. Even then, 1024MB is the maximum RAM most notebooks can have, 80GB HDD is pretty standard, most Intel-powered laptops use the Pentium M or 4 (the rest being Celeron), AC97 Audio is the cheapest thing you\'ll ever get for sound, Intel HD Audio comes with the new Centrino models but there are 1000euro models. This is not what I would call the best laptop.

if you really want to compare objectively you have to give a price and then you would be able to compare (almost objectively: for example if you buy a cpu which cost $800 and $200 for the rest I think there would have no comparaison to do)

Originally posted by Nada


But off course PCMCIA HD exists...

I know only of external PCMCIA HDDs. Forgive my ignorance, point me to an internal one for laptops and, if you can, one which is widely available.

Yeah external... Mine was a kind of external HD... It\'s old... In fact it was a \"mobile\" rack... and now I think there was just a second hard drive which was plug thank to a PCMCIA controller... But I have not this computer anymore... And I recognize I was wrong with the name of the HD
But if you compare a \"normal\" Desktop HD and a \"normal\" laptop one there is no comparaison!
My old UDMA66 was able to send files at 40Mb per second
My laptop one (which is newer) is just able to reach 13Mb/sec (thought it is 3 years newer!)

Originally posted by Nada

Laptop graphic cards are specific for laptop: they are expensives and NOT AS POWERFUL AS DESKTOP one!!!

I said they did not come cheap. I never said they were as powerful. You must admit though that they are not far behind.

you say laptop technology is as powerful as desktop one

Again, I\'ll repeat myself: I never said they were as powerful. You must admit though that they are not far behind.


Now fken, I\'ve been posting in this forum just for a few days, so I\'ll assume that you\'re not doing this in bad faith and that you\'ve just misunderstood me.
Let me recap everything:
- ajdaha asked for recommended specs for $800 -> I gave him the specs for something around what I think will cost $1000-1100.
- he asked about specs for full performance -> I replied by mentionning top-of-the-line mobile graphic chips and said the price range would be $3000-4000
- you said you believed buying a laptop for gaming was silly -> I said it was not necessarily silly if space was very important but that even then one should consider a small-form-factor system first. (As a side note: I\'m renting a 9m squared room (\"chambre d\'?tudiant\" in French, \"student\'s room\" loosely translated), a full desktop system or even a small-form-factor system with a flat screen would take too much space + I can use the Wifi hotspots around where I live or at the university).

To conclude, you say \"No really there is no comparaison\". I say laptops are not as powerful but comparable.

I\'m not ok with you... if you give yourself a price and buy a desktop and a laptop with the same price I think at least the desktop would work 2times better than the laptop.

And even there are others problems with the laptop : I think it is too hot : the problem is that if I try to play powerful games sometimes my computer shutdown under windows (nobody know exactly what it could be: some say its the graphic card, some others the motherboard, some other the ram, some others think its a virus... I think it could be virus, bad electricity contact or RAM... but it\'s hard to know cause its a laptop) and finally if you want to buy another peripheral (sound card, motherboard (lol... hum hum sorry) or graphic card), the shopkeepers will tell you: \"Buying a new laptop would be less expensive\"

[Nada]

Originally posted by fken
You tried to defend and protect a wrong opinion even if you knew it was wrong. Surely because of the other thread where we first met each other. I know you were saying right things but each time you were doing like if you were contradicting me... but why?

Begging your pardon, yet again I fail to clearly get your meaning because you tell me I protect a wrong opinion and then that I say right things.
I do not feel I\'m wrong about the topics I\'ve developped in this thread. I\'ll admit that I may have played the devil\'s advocate in the other thread, especially about environmental issues.

Originally posted by fken
My old UDMA66 was able to send files at 40Mb per second
My laptop one (which is newer) is just able to reach 13Mb/sec (thought it is 3 years newer!)

In one of my previous post, I explicitly said at \"comparable speeds and technology\". Anyway my laptop has got a 80GB 4200RPM HDD. When I benchmark it with SiSoft Sandra 2005, I get average transfer rates of 23MB/s. Since I don\'t do any video editing, I find it to be quite suitable even when loading levels in games.

Originally posted by fken
I\'m not ok with you... if you give yourself a price and buy a desktop and a laptop with the same price I think at least the desktop would work 2times better than the laptop.

I\'ll try to be as objective as possible.
There is a web site I find very interesting, http://www.sharkyextreme.com, every few months they try to build the best value system for $1000. The last one was in April and they managed to get the following together: P4 3.2GHz, 1GB RAM, 80GB 7200RPM HDD, GeForce 6600 GT 128MB, 19\" CRT or 17\" TFT + motherboard, case, speakers, keyboard, mouse, DVD drive, etc. The system was assembled for $1004.
Then I went on ebay to try and find something similar (now you might say it is not objective to compare new equipment with something from eday, to that I\'ll answer that from the beginning in this thread there has been suggestion to use ebay, so I\'ll go by that assumption). Among the many systems I found here are 2 of them:
A - ($650.50, 1d20h remaining) - Toshiba - P4 3.2GHZ, 512MB RAM, 17\" TruBrite Screen, 80GB 4200RPM HDD, Mobility Radeon 9700 64MB, DVDRW, 1 year warranty.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38123&item=6773434280&rd=1
B - ($1,095, 2d10h remaining) - HP - P4 3.2GHz, 1GB RAM, 15.4\" screen, 80GB 4200RPM HDD, Mobility Radeon 9600 64MB, DVDRW.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42198&item=6773215878&rd=1
I did not run benchmarks on those system but while I accept that the desktop version will be faster, I don\'t think that 2 times faster is right. Anyway these seem to be  good systems and there were others with 128MB of VRAM.

Originally posted by fken
And even there are others problems with the laptop : I think it is too hot : the problem is that if I try to play powerful games sometimes my computer shutdown under windows (nobody know exactly what it could be: some say its the graphic card, some others the motherboard, some other the ram, some others think its a virus... I think it could be virus, bad electricity contact or RAM... but it\'s hard to know cause its a laptop) and finally if you want to buy another peripheral (sound card, motherboard (lol... hum hum sorry) or graphic card), the shopkeepers will tell you: \"Buying a new laptop would be less expensive\"

Heat can be a problem. In fact all males should be very careful about that if they wish to have children. Most vendors advise against placing their laptops directly on bare skin. A virus which crashed your PC only when you play games? Don\'t know. Anyway, have you contacted the aftersales service? Upgrading laptops is pretty limited, that\'s true. You can upgrade the RAM, HDD, and there are external sound cards, tv tuners, and the like. However, it is likely that the next few months will see upgradable graphic chips through the PCI EXpress standard. There is definitely no way to upgrade the motherboard.