The leveling system makes no sense

[Mortac]

About skills I agree with zanzibar, but about Strenght, Agility...etc. There are 2 ways:
1) PP-s can be used only for stats, but this isn\'t very realistic, becouse of the same problem as with skills, you fight and than raise Int. for example...

2) Stats can be trained by activities, running around with heavy backpack increases endurance and strenght.
Fighting increases Strenght and Agility.
Using magic increases mental stats: every way increases the stat that it\'s dependant on...

But when stats rise by doing something the increase should be small enough...
And faster training could be done with trainers: in Gym\'s, nightschools , with jogging, etc...

And also there could be skill decreases, for exaple, if you only fight night and day, your mental skills would start to decrease(but at very slow rate) and the other way around (this could cut down the PL-ing, but there are always those who don\'t care...),
so you would have to do different things to keep your char balanced.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Mortac
And also there could be skill decreases, for exaple, if you only fight night and day, your mental skills would start to decrease(but at very slow rate) and the other way around (this could cut down the PL-ing, but there are always those who don\'t care...),
so you would have to do different things to keep your char balanced.

That\'s unintelligent.  Why does every fighter have to also be an uncultured idiot with no social skills?  How narrow-minded.

[Karyuu]

Fighting takes a lot more intelligence that people first imagine. There is a strategy to things, especially as you progress further into a skill - you\'re not going to be bashing things wildly with no direction, you\'re going to seek an opponent\'s weakness, try to sneak in a strike without receiving one, plan plan plan. A lot of it is just physical chess.

[derwoodly]

Eliminte the ability to increase stats beyond character creation.  To compinsate, make starting game decisions add and subtract from stats more dramatically.

Eliminate progress points completely.

Keep the training system requirement.  You need to purchase skill till you fill a level, then return to practice said skill.

Add quests that increase a skill or ability.  Quest of great strength as an example.  Or Quest of sword mastery. Or for non-combatants, Quest of the Sacred Hot Wings.

My 2 cents

[darkw00t]

In real life if you keep killing something (eg.monsters) you will get used to it  and it will become natural though a trainer can teach you how to do that too but you will still need to train anyway, a book could tell you how to do a certain swing which could lead to a weakness in a monster also a trainer/book could teach a different grip for the sword, also after a lot of killing/ training you might be able to wield a sword 1 handed but say a race like a kran who is strong should be able to wield most weapons 1 handed depending on the weight of the weapon. Training on your muscle development well enable the factor to wield weapons as well, though weight should play a part as well, a heavy person won\'t be agile, fast or sneaky though he would be able to hold heavy items and armours and could swing faster so he might not be able to train skills up faster like agility or assassins/ninja skills, though a light person would be sneaky, quick and be (maybe) fire arrows while running (just a thought) so a light person would be suited to a ranger/ninja type class and they might not be able to train up skills faster like they won\'t be as good as chopping trees (for the wood for there bows and arrows) though they would be good at skills like crafting.

I also think there should be a skill which you can have respect for mother nature and can pick apples from a tree or get seeds and plant your own tree (lol) but yeh maybe it can do something with animals as well maybe

[DaveG]

Crap I\'ve been preaching for months:

• PP = die
• Stats advance with use (no manual training)
• Apprentice period for new skills, with training at NPCs for a fee
• Intermediate/advanced skill training at some NPCs for a fee, or on completion of a special quest (not necessarily required)
• Skills advance with use (ease of which is defined be pre-existing knowledge)
• Slight skill advancement from watching others
• Stats/skills regress somewhat without use (method TBD)

Threads:
Stats system need to be changed
A question to the devs
Combat idea 32-A18

[Miya]

My proposal (combination of ideas from various people):

* Do away with PP.
* Base stats work differently than other skills. They gain practice points and level just by using abilities that take advantage of them, or by doing quests/jobs, or sped up by purchasing books at the library, or time with a training dummy or something of that sort.
* Rather than have practical/theoretical knowledge per level, have separate practical and theoretical skill levels. Your practical level can be increased on its own just by using that skill. The theoretical level can be increased by buying training at a skill trainer. A higher theoretical level will allow you to train your practical level faster. Your practical level is limited by your theoretical level, but not by a hard \"your theoretical level must be a minimum of 40% of your practical level\" but a system where, when your practical level approaches 150%, it takes too long to increase your practical level that you basically have to level up your theoretical level. Now here\'s the justification:
You can practice swords on your own without training, and you will get better on your own, but after a point you will start to need guidance from someone with more experience in order to use more advanced sword techniques you can\'t think of on your own.

[Induane]

I really like what Miya had going there, it is a good way of handleing it and is quite logical as well. I also like the idea of DaveG that watching people has a slight skill increase - but it shoul be from watching people with more skill than yourself. The only issue I have with you getting \"rusty\" from not using skills, is that you can\'t have it be based on a real time, as someone might be unable to play for a week. this shouldn\'t cost them anything, though perhaps you can combine Miya\'s ideas here.  Make your theoretical knowledge disappear slowly at first, and then quickly each day (ingame day - time not logged in should not count) thereafter.  The upshot of this is that you can\'t go do all sorts of theoretical training and then not do any practical training for a week because you\'d not have the same benefit(realisically).  That way you would also not be losing your current skills, but you would provide an incentive to actually go use your theoretical knowledge sooner, and it would be worth more then as well.  I also don\'t think we necessarily need different types of progression points, or to do away with PP\'s either.  I just think there needs to be more ways of obtaining PP\'s than killing monsters or doing quests.  Picking alot of mushrooms should gain you PP\'s, as should doing any mining or crafting.  You should gain PP\'s by reading books, and from watching others duel.

A different type of PP system would be annoyingly complex I think, although I agree it would make a little more sense.    

On a weird note here what about having PP\'s = a sign of respect.  Trainers shouldn\'t charge you PP\'s for training - it should be trias only, but trainers with advanced skills, or high level skills, might not want to talk to someone with no community respect.  The more PP\'s you have then the more and better NPC Trainers become opened up to you. With this, you could keep one type of PP only, and if used in combination with the idea of multiple ways of gaining PP\'s then you are doing quite well I think.  Anyone here think I\'m a moron? lol

Any other ideas? Critique?  Should I cut off my tongue to avoid more babble like this?

[darkw00t]

at the moment it takes only 6 or so rats to grow a lvl, the spending PP to grow a lvl in training is not the right way to go, Miya has a good way going i reckon

[DaveG]

Induane:
The \"experience by witnessing\" (#6) idea belongs to Kixie, and Cha0s came up with the first part of #4.  The rest is mine.  (Sorry, I should have cited them; quick post.  The threads listed contain their origional posts.)

Miya:
Wonderful idea!    Seperate exp for theory/practice would really make things more realistic/immersive, and it gets rid of the absolute requirement to pay for training.