Solving NPC quests should give experience, too.

[emeraldfool]

Niko's right. The current PP-system is logically flawed (quite horribly, actually) and I believe there are plans to replace it with a better system later on anyway.

But the point is, currently there is no way to earn skills decently without resorting to violence. Something that wouldn't suit a lot of characters. Having a decent PP reward from quests could change that (of course, there will always be a point where the quests run out and the quester will have to resort to fighting anyway, so it really doesn't make a difference in the long run...)

[Nikodemus]

* Nikodemus reads first paragraph and then the second...

I wonder, how can you state that something is fundamentally wrong and then tell we should get it in quests? No comment

[Unnamed_Source]

the idea of geing some kind of experience is pointless anyway so i don't know what you guy are talking about.

Experience is what gives us PP, From my one character I've noticed I get 1 PP for every 200 exp point received. so a Tefusang that gives 2400 exp  will result in 12 PP. With out PP, there is no point to having skills. There for, exp is an essential part of the gaming experience even in a bastard step child sort of way.

You are speaking about experince in sword using? Or maybe metallurgy? mining? Or you are sugesting to have one skill for all skills and nothing more? This is basically the skill on which the experience you speak about would be spent.

This has been suggested before. How about allocating exp to the category from which the skill is from. So Mining/metallurgy/smithing gets exp in the jobs category. casting spells in the magic category, and swinging a sword in the combat category. with a minimal addition to a general fund,as it is now. The general fund exp/PP would allow the training of any skill in any category. Where as the category exp/PP allows only training in that specific category. so smithing exp/PP will allow you to train metallurgy but not swords.

Fighting is simple, how did you kill the monster, with a weapon or a spell. obviously you can't mine and kill at the same time so there only two possible out comes for combat exp, spells or weapons. Later when backstabbing and the misc category skills are implemented, a solution can be figured out for them and combat. For now lets work with what we got.

Now you can also argue that exp/PP should go to just the skill used but that should come at a later date when this FIRST step has been tested out.

You can have experience in some p&p games where GM controls the characters as good as possible. Or in Diablo, where all you do is kill things.

In Diablo you have levels the make exp meaningful, planeshift has PP.

What you should look for is a real reverd for quest solving. Not some silly exp points.

In a complex MMORPG where all calculations may be done by computer (complex or simple) the concept of exp is even more pointless.

If PP are  scrapped for something better, then you are right. But till then exp has a purpose and that is to attain PP. And to remind you all PP is what the game uses to train skills with.

Training stats can come out from the category PP for now. Jobs PP can train strength, endurance, and will. Magic PP can train intelligence, will, and charisma. Combat PP can train strength, agility, and will. Argue all you want for these are just examples.

As far as quests go , stick the exp/PP in the general fund.

[Is that better?]

[Nikodemus]

With out PP, there is no point to having skills. There for, exp is an essential part of the gaming experience even in a bastard step child sort of way.

You forgot to write why. Without this, your whole post makes no sense

Although you have a point with system for increasing stats, your post has to make sense first.

Goodluck with that.

[lordraleigh]

Simply put my opinion on how to make PS an unique game that is different from the MMOGs(Almost no RP on them): Remove fully the PPs and also EXP. Instead training skills should be based only on having money to pay someone for teaching them and on practicing them enoughly to get enough practice points to rank up.

When you are mining to practice what a NPC taught you, it's IC. When you are killing several spawnable monsters to get enough PPs to afford development of mining skill, it is totally OOC.

Simply put PPs, EXP and such are not good concepts for as game focused on RP and I hope PS 1.0 will scrap down them from the way character development works.

Quests should give other kind of reward, not EXP. Same with GM Events.

[Nikodemus]

Unnamed, You still did not answer the question i asked^^
You just added my quote, but the paragraph i asked about ramained the same ;P. Where you are also wrong. It is not only like exp give PP. PP and exp is the same thing, just like miles and kilometers are describing the same thing.

You know, you are writing about the whole thing if categories for PP, which is generally better idea than what is now, roughtly.

And you are also wrong that all you need to train are PP. Currently, besides PP, you also need practicing the skill and money. And so nothing stays beatween us and new system without PP. Search a bit if you need arguments, this was discussed like in 5 separate topics.

And answer THE question first. Justyfying system with few features, which would be also good with another system, isn't reason for the system to be best from all.

[emeraldfool]

* Nikodemus reads first paragraph and then the second...

I wonder, how can you state that something is fundamentally wrong and then tell we should get it in quests? No comment

I'm talking about a temporary solution until the 'fundamentally wrong' system is fixed.

[Nikodemus]

I'm talking about a temporary solution until the 'fundamentally wrong' system is fixed.

Oh, my fault.
The problem with temporary solutions is that unecesary work needs to be put in them, work which will be wasted later.
I would like to say: Wouldn't it be simpler to just eliminate PP, rather than balance its gathering rom different jobs. But then it would be nice to have time limits, like you can't earn next rank after less than some amount of time, from the last trained rank in given skill. A time, which would increase with ranks, exactly as the amount of needed PP increase. (thats additional job to do)
Skills would have to trained somehow. The time limit desctibed above is good idea, but some wouldn't agree and so if some idea will be developed, it is further job to do.

[Unnamed_Source]

Unnamed, You still did not answer the question i asked^^
You just added my quote, but the paragraph i asked about ramained the same ;P. Where you are also wrong.

I don't understand what YOU don't comprehend, I had though I had made it clear, that in part, I am answering your statements and trying to elighten you about exp, which you clearly stated that you did not understand. But seeing that you are telling me I'm wrong, it is obvious that you do understand. So why the WHY? Please, help me out so I can make this as clear to everyone as I can and elaborate on your WHY.

It is not only like exp give PP. PP and exp is the same thing, just like miles and kilometers are describing the same thing.

I really don't know what game you are playing or it has been a good while since you've made a new character. But the next time you're in the sewers. go knock out some rats and see how many PP it'll give you for each.  It takes 5280 feet to make a mile. Look at exp as a foot and the PP as the mile. That is why you need exp. You can get rid of exp and still leave PP in tact, but no one will ever gain PP after that.

You know, you are writing about the whole thing if categories for PP, which is generally better idea than what is now, roughtly.

Is this they why you were alluding to and finally understood?

And you are also wrong that all you need to train are PP. Currently, besides PP, you also need practicing the skill and money. And so nothing stays between us and new system without PP. Search a bit if you need arguments, this was discussed like in 5 separate topics.

Take it or leave it, you NEED PP to raise the levels in skills, money and practice are easily got but PP is what you have to work for. If you understood that you could see that this is what the topic of the discussion is about. Simply eliminating the PP is not going to solve anything. PS doesn't have classes to level so an alternative was produced to gain skills.

If left out you would not need trainers, nor a the bulk of tria that people mine for, we can just raise skill levels through practice. is this what you are leaning towards?

And answer THE question first. Justyfying system with few features, which would be also good with another system, isn't reason for the system to be best from all.

I don't see you coming up with any idea of your own. Don't knock someone else's solution, unless you can come up with something better. Just stating the riddance of PP is not very thought out. I have given my idea, the separation of exp into categories can then lead to higher  EXP gain in each with out out balancing the other fields and a very small general fund(as is now) to train in categories that have no learnt skills. Now what's your idea for NO PP?(if it has been written down before post the link here)

[Nikodemus]

I don't understand what YOU don't comprehend, I had though I had made it clear, that in part, I am answering your statements and trying to elighten you about exp, which you clearly stated that you did not understand. But seeing that you are telling me I'm wrong, it is obvious that you do understand. So why the WHY? Please, help me out so I can make this as clear to everyone as I can and elaborate on your WHY.

I want you to answer the question because i'm tired of stated theories without explanation. You do give explanation for some ideas, but not all. This is what is annoying me on these forums, because it prevents succesful discussion, where everything is clear.
Further, the fact you can't give answer for my precise question means you don't know it and it leads to a conclusion that you shouldn't have posted it. That in fact includes the whole post, because it is based on the first unanswered question.
If you came to this conclusion, maybe you wouyld see what is wrong in your idea, you would try to modificate it and finally came up with something what may be actually discussed.

Now i could quote on every single part of your message, but i'm tired of being guide to people who don't know game and ideas floating around it well enough yet, so i will comment when i see you are making more sense. Curently you are learning and at some point you will know enough, see ya till then.
I'm sorry for these who seek help, but i'm not the best helper around it and i enjoy it only till some limit

[Unnamed_Source]

I want you to answer the question because I'm tired of stated theories without explanation.

I am trying to understand where you are coming from, but I really don't. You keep asking a meaningless question that I don't know how to answer cause there is no reasoning behind it. Why is the sky blue? I can answer that, a simple  but simple and meaningless why, I cannot.

You do give explanation for some ideas, but not all.

what parts am I not being clear on?

This is what is annoying me on these forums, because it prevents succesful discussion, where everything is clear.

And can you be clear too. a simplistic WHY is not very clear. I have asked you Why the WHY. And even you can' answer. Please be clear when asking questions.
 

Further, the fact you can't give answer for my precise question means you don't know it and it leads to a conclusion that you shouldn't have posted it. That in fact includes the whole post, because it is based on the first unanswered question.

I would be happy to answer the question if I even knew what the quest was. You too have to be CLEAR on your statements

If you came to this conclusion, maybe you wouyld see what is wrong in your idea, you would try to modificate it and finally came up with something what may be actually discussed.

I don't live in your mind and I have yet to learn PSP via electronics. I have no idea what your argument is because you have not stated one. please help me see through your eyes, what is wrong with this approach. If not your points(WHY) are rhetoric.

Now i could quote on every single part of your message, but I'm tired of being guide to people who don't know game and ideas floating around it well enough yet, so i will comment when i see you are making more sense. Currently you are learning and at some point you will know enough, see ya till then.
I'm sorry for these who seek help, but i'm not the best helper around it and i enjoy it only till some limit

Please, if you're not going to debate, if you not going to give concise answers, if you're not going to put any meaning behind your questions and statements, then don't post. I have yet to understand what you see that is wrong AND you still have not made that any clearer. So till then, I hope when I see you again, YOU will be making more sense.