Can anyone here read medieval French?

[zanzibar]

Feel free to disagree.

And I do.  Strongly.  I find what you're saying to be more than a little bit narrow minded.  The Beatles for instance wrote tonnes of songs about love.  Are you going to suggest that the meaning of each of their songs is exactly the same?  I find that to be a ridiculous proposition.

[bilbous]

I'm saying that when you reduce them to their "base factors" one of the above mentioned meanings will always be present. Feel free to list an example that does not fit and I will indicate which I think it is.

[zanzibar]

I'm saying that when you reduce them to their "base factors" one of the above mentioned meanings will always be present. Feel free to list an example that does not fit and I will indicate which I think it is.

No, I can believe that all love songs have the same meaning.. so long as you ignore their meaning.  That makes perfect sense to me, no need for further explanation.

[Idoru]

It never ceases to amaze me how you two can argue about the most pointless of things

[zanzibar]

It never ceases to amaze me how you two can argue about the most pointless of things

I was just trying to give Bilbous a chance to show me how his claim wasn't as nonsensical as it seemed.

[bilbous]

I thought we were having a discussion and was waiting for a judgment from from a mod as to if my proposed reply was too adult for this forum, as it turns out I sent to Karyuu who was not the first to check in and have yet to receive a reply.

By the way which thread here in the Hydlaa Plaza hasn't been pointless to one person or another?

Having got the green light here is the response I defered:

Couldn't find one, eh?

How about "Why Don't We Do It In The Road"... nope too obvious.

"Baby, You Can Drive My Car" <hand squeezing motion honk honk> I mean Beep beep Yeah!

"Michelle" Lovin so good I learned to speak tongues! well a little French anyway.

It was just a different time you couldn't go around singing about "My Hump, my hump" please stick it up my rump! and get the all-important radio play. Still Bread got away with "I really want to make it with you" Jethro Tull "came upon Mother Goose, so I turned her loose and she was screaming" David Bowie worked in "Wham Bam, Thank you ma'am" They were ground breakers.

After all:

The term "rock and roll", which was black slang for sexual intercourse,

so rock love songs are eros not agape

[zanzibar]

And that's relevant to what you were saying earlier in the thread.... how, exactly?  I don't see the connection.

In case you forgot what you said:

The End Maybe not so much musically but lyrically.

Actually I think it probably is, as much as the poets and troubadours of yore (and some of them today) like to get all flowery I do not suppose sex has changed too much. The only real difference I see is how literal the terms used (or not) to talk about it. 

[bilbous]

Feel free to disagree.

And I do.  Strongly.  I find what you're saying to be more than a little bit narrow minded.  The Beatles for instance wrote tonnes of songs about love.  Are you going to suggest that the meaning of each of their songs is exactly the same?  I find that to be a ridiculous proposition.

It was relevant to this...or had you forgotten but if you want relevance to previous, let me see.

Medieval song is more in the realm of Black Sabbath and Zeppelin,

Black sabbath is not known for their love songs, I'm not too familiar with their material as I thought they sucked but I cannot think of a single love song unless it was about their love of drugs such as "sweat leaf" or "snowblind" although I suppose "Iron Man" could be about a guy with an erection, I kind of doubt it.

I am more familiar with Led Zeppelin and I'll say this: their first album does not appear to have a romantic love song being almost entirely misogynist in flavor. This trend seems to permeate their albums although after while they did move on to other themes. They were not known for love songs.

By the way, playing dumb is not a veryy friendly conversational tactic but lets leave that aside.

Your love song hmmm what can I say about that!

"This is the end." What does this mean, the end of what?

"I will always love, no matter what one says."  So nobody can stop him from loving. Is that eros or agape? I would, of course, suggest eros as people "in love" are notoriously deaf to their loves detractors so in the context of the previous line romantic love makes little sense. Now if he was going to have his way with her regardless of what anyone might say it could be the end of friendship, his reputation or even his life depending on her reaction.

"It is over there, in the meadows". What is over there? Does he only love her in that particular spot or is that just where he caught her in order to do the deed. I would suggest the latter because that was where it ended. An alternate explaination is that she died somehow and is buried in the meadow but
"I have a beautiful friend." would suggest that she is still very much alive so the meadow must be where they lay.
"This is the end.  I will always love, no matter what one says." This is a reaffirmation that it is the end of romance and the continuation of life.

Gees I haven't done much literary exposition recently I hope it does not show too much.

[zanzibar]

The comparison I drew with Black Sabath was musical, and they did have a few love song (as did Zeppelin).

I'm not playing dumb.  I'm completely serious when I say your posts don't seem to make sense.  They do not follow from one another.  You'll say Red.  I'll ask you why Red is true.  You'll then make a post about Blue.

"Meadows" is probably a reference to the heavens or some other abstract thing.  References to the natural world are typical of virelei.

[bilbous]

I guess what I have been saying all along in one way then another is that in order to ensure their works would be considered high-brow literary works to ensure them being handed down to posterity they have frequently been couched in abstract terms with the meanings obscured so as to not run afoul of the church censors or to offend the bookish types that might publish the works. I am certain that there has been a tradition of earthy beer-hall songs and rhymes that have not survived for just that reason.
Here is an example of such a rhyme from my youth you are unlikely to find in any serious book of poetry:

Birdy Birdy, in the sky,
Dropped some whitewash in my eye.
I'm a big boy I don't cry.
I'm just glad cows don't fly!

As for my posts not making sense, for the most part they are a direct reply to the last thing said so if they do not follow....perhaps I am misunderstanding your meaning.

I do sometimes go back to restate things differently but mostly none of it comes from thin air.

[zanzibar]

Two songs can have the same subject and yet have completely different meanings.

[bilbous]

True enough in a vague kind of way but two songs on the same subject can appear to have completely different meanings but in reality mean the same thing.
<being equally vague>
<elucidation> A lot of meaning is tied in to intonation and pacing. Two people can sing the very same song and make it mean opposite things. Not in all cases but fairly commonly. Take for instance a song about the end of a relationship. One person might sing it as a lamentation, slow and sad and another might sing it loud and proud, an exaltation. Dry words always leave room for interpretation. Arguably they are different songs due to the arrangement but they can also be considered the same song.

So to tie these parts together one song can be "she is gone and I am glad" and a second song "she is gone and I am sad" can mean the same if the former is sung straight and the latter sung in a manner that negates its meaning.

I still think your nice French song is about sex. You can polish a penny until it gleams but it is still only worth one cent. Polish it too much and it isn't worth even that.