unrealistic restrictions for armour; skilling up via other pc's

[SynergfyFlo]

hey folks,

awesome game, i'm having lots of fun exploring it.
however, there are a few issues that i'd like to criticise, relating to armour.

as a martial artist and a medieval combat afficionado, i know that wearing chainmail does not require much skill or strength.
medieval chainmail was wrought in such a way that the weight was spread fairly evenly across the entire body. i find the need for inordinately high strength to wear this armour in the game quite ridiculous, much more so the need for a skill in using it.

unless a character is severely handicapped or feeble, anyone should be able to wear chain. the fact that the restrictions are not reflected in any manuals or in the information presentd about a parrticular piece of armour or weaponry is even more irritating. if this were a real world, a smith would likely tell you:"Young adventurer, that suit of armour is far too heavy for a twig like you to wear!". He certainly wouldn't sell it to someone who'd be unable to wear it and disgruntled as a result.

another aspect of the game that would bear improvement is the skilling process. would it not be smart to let player characters teach each other?
award xp and practise points for tutors who train pc's who are at a lower level of skill? this woul;d encourage a whole lot more role-playing as well as longer term relationships of loyalty and mentoring. Highly-skilled characters would develop a reputation as teachers, and may even develop followings of loyal students/apprentices. it would also allow money to circulate within the pc economy rather than being siphoned-off through black-hole npc's.

then, I find it odd that guides like alliva's magic guide being slagged as spoilers...if devs feel that this is an issue, why not create an in-game version - a series of grimoires or compendia of magic and spells that are hidden somewhere (perhaps guarded by powerful magelings, familiars or undead) and can be discovered in the course of a quest - this would allow mage-characters to develop a more realistic story of their quests for arcane power...?

ok, those are some of my thoughts.

all the best,

Flo

 

[Zan]

Hey,

I can understand some of your issues. But let me adress them in a different light. The strength you need to wear chain mail really isn't that high, personally I consider it an average strength around Yliakum. People who can't wear chain are, as you also say, simply weak. The strength you need to wear plate, now that requires some training.

About the skill needed to use armor, I do think you need to learn to use armor, not so much to enjoy it's defensive capabilities .. but instead to still be able to move around and fight as skillfully as you can without it. So I guess it would be more realistic if a low armor skill still yielded a high defense but strongly reduced offense ... that might be a suggestion for the wish list.

The skill process is, I believe and hope, being worked on and will probably change in the future. I definitely agree that it isn't my favorite system either.

As for spoilers .. well I like that they aren't just put on forums. Things like that reduce the need for in-game interaction and the chance for roleplaying to develop. If you're looking for books on magic in Yliakum .. they're there, you just have to know where to look. I know for a fact that the Imperial Scholars have quite a library gathered and I'm certain that there are other groups with similar writings. Magic is also one thing that might best be studied under the guide of an experienced mage. (this is at least one form of player-to-player 'training' we can do.)

[SynergfyFlo]

hey Zan,

i agree with most of your points - especially the one about requiring skill to reduce the encumbrance of armour as it affects combat.

thanks for the hint regarding the imperial scholars, though I'm not sure i know where to meet one.

regarding the weight of armour, incidentally medieval full-plate was so well-wrought that a knight would have been able to do back-flips in it (providing he was acrobatically inclined) - the joints wre well-plaed and the weight very well distributed.

the story of needing a crane to get a knight on a horse is a hollywood invention, as are the images of cumbersome knights on their backs and unable to gain their feet again. however, donning such a suit of armour would have required some skill - but this was generally managed by a page...

i do hope the skill system becomes more interactive and realistic, and that the economy becomes more circular and more diverse - e.g. hunting, herb-gathering, woodcarving, etc etc. and allows experienced players to level up further by teaching others. as a teacher myself, i know that my own skill improves remarkably just by having to clearly explain it to a beginner... 

[Zan]

Well I'm sure most of what you want is being planned, Planeshift is constantly evolving and growing but since this is a free volunteer project, this growth can't always be noticed clearly. There is no deadline or time limit in which this game will be finished. Skills like herbalism, alchemy, leatherworking, ... are all being planned though.

As for the Imperial Scholars, just look around for people donning the emblem (read: big fluorescent guild tag  ) in Hydlaa. The library, temple or tavern would be the best places to look.

[bilbous]

It might be more suitable to ask around for Imperial Scholars instead of just going up to someone with the tag. Getting an introduction through role play will likely garner better results than just accosting someone due to their tag. Probably not too big a deal though.

[Mordraugion]

I've been fortunate enough to try on a genuine suit of medieval Plate I was at the time very fit and I'm a pretty muscular bloke.
There is no way anyone is going to do a backflip, a cartwheel maybe and it is possible to move reasonably quickly but there is a definite penalty to agility, it's not just the weight but the padding underneath that  also restricts movement

[SynergfyFlo]

Hey Mordraugion,

I stand corrected... your experience certainly relates to this issue.

how best would this be reflected in game terms? an agility malus reduced by armour skill?
a high encumbrance score that affects endurance, so that less fit fighters would rapidly become too exhausted to defend themselves effectively despite their armour?

i'm sure all the padding would make this armour very hot and tiring to fight in.
How did the helm impair your vision?

cool,

Flo

[Miaua]

My statements about armor are here.... Older topic about armor
Not exactly same issue, but still related.

[Sen]

* Sen chuckles

I wanted to remind of that thread a few hours ago, too, but decided to wait a little
Anyways, I have  now hope again that some people with the power to change this will think about how to implement armor - and unarmored - effects again 

[SynergfyFlo]

definitely related and very relevant.

to me the question could be resolved by looking at what armour does and what it does not.
it does not make you harder to hit...
but if you do get hit, it tends to be between you and the weapon striking you, i.e. it absorbs some part of the impact.
i would guess this depends on the amount of force used, the quality of the weapon, and the type of armour worn.
it does tend to encumber and hinder the wearer.

so perhaps armour could be modelled accurately as presenting a challenge to agility and endurance of the wearer, and as being likely to absorb a certain amount of damage before it degrades and becomes less useful. whatever damage exceeds the capacity of armour to absorb damage (i.e. it's thickness or toughness) could still be inflicted on the wearer. each time armour is breached in this way, it is damaged and becomes less useful, until its drawbacks clearly outweigh its benefits.

hmmm... just some thoughts....i used to work on an old-style rpg with dice that worked this way, but it wasd too tedious at the time. but with computer-based simulation, this kind of system might be more feasible...

[Mordraugion]

Initially if strong and fit it would mainly affect agility but the longer its worn the more tiring the heat would become I only wore it for 30 mins or so but I imagine after a couple of hours it would become not impossible to move but ones fighting ability would be seriously compromised and one would rapidly tire if exerting oneself.

Visibility is restricted depending on the style of helmet some have reasonably good forward vision but peripheral vision is severely compromised