Pros vs Cons

[Kerol]

As I've said before on the forums and on IRC - if you spend time with a quest trying to guess something, once you finally get it send me - via PM or email - 1) the name of the quest 2) what the npc said you were trying to answer and 3) what responses you tried that did not work.

Something I probably would not offer, but Rizin isn't me

However, my offer stands on the other side - ask for me on IRC and I help getting out of DR.

DR will grow instead of getting removed and parsing text will be improved instead of getting removed.

[nude0007]

Rizin - "The numbers of players cycle depending on what time you play, I hate hearing that there was not anyone available at that specific time, but that will not always be the case. I suggest logging back in and approaching the situation with a fresh perspective and/or looking for others in the same realm to aid you as has been suggested above."


So your answer is that I still have to wait for the help of others, (on their schedule) to be able to even play the game?  What if no one is ever there when I want to play?

Rizin - "Saying something along the lines of "If you could get me out fo the DR, I might try playing again.  Heck, I have always wanted to become a developer, BUT..." is not constructive criticism, I'm sorry to say."

You are right, that was not constructive criticism, it was a plea for help. I'm not surprised that you can't tell the difference. (grin)

Rizin - "Again, this isn't constructive, it's you expressing your displeasure over an integral part of the game. PlaneShift is striving to be a well rounded world, and death is part of the world. Death is also not something taken lightly in Yliakum."


Again I ask, why are players punished for ACCIDENTALLY dying? (I slid down an embankment that I had slid down several times before without taking any damage) And how is the DR better than actual death?  I'd prefer complete and total death to this.  If Death is important, then make it final.  I can accept that.  Most games just allow us to live again because they know we'll probably just re-create a character as close to what we had before anyway.  Then they graciously allow us to keep some if not all of our hard earned items, because they realize this is just a game, not reality.  I'd much prefer losing ALL items I had to this.  Maybe a window giving us the choice: "Do you want to try to escape the DR, or just lose all items?" 

It would have been cool if the developers said, "Gee, that would make it easier and better."  or "I never thought of that, I'll look into that as a possibility."  Or even "I guess we could make an option here for people to do it this other way, those of us who prefer doing it THIS way still can!"  As I said before: By offering multiple options, you end up pleasing more people. By making things easier, you promote role-playing.

To your credit, I think you did actually listen some, admitting that you were working on improving at least the dialog between us and npc's, maybe more?

Again, if your game did not show such promise, I would not have bothered writing even once, but since you are dead set on not making a better game and just blaming people who have problems for their trouble, I will probably not bother to return.  I am sure someone will do this right at some point.  I suppose I'll just have to wait  a bit longer, or until I can retire and launch my own project (20 more years?)(grin).

PS:  I don't IRC anyone or IM or any other chat.  It is too risky in my estimation.  Sorry, and thanks for the offer.

[Karyuu]

It is too risky to contact someone by PM on the forums..? Are you here to play by yourself, or to enjoy the game with other people?

Rizin is an amazing person who goes out of her way to make sure people are happy and playing without problems. Why make it more difficult for her with the type of posts you're making? Clearly you're not satisfied with the game, and clearly you think that we're all here to make your experience miserable just because we can. You've also made it extremely obvious that you're leaving - several times. At this point, please do. I am not sure there is anything more we can do for you, so save yourself the time and effort of repeating your complaints (which have already been addressed), and find another game that is more enjoyable.

I'm sorry PlaneShift doesn't quite come up to your standards yet, and I hope in the future once we add more features and solve more problems, you will return and have a better time.

Until then - have a great day, somewhere else.

[Rizin]

@ Karyuu - Thank you.

@ Kerol - Thank you, I think

@ nude0007 - You say that my first answer is for you to wait for the help of others on their schedule, well yes, I cannot make people appear online when you are...nor would I want to make anyone do anything. In all my time playing, I have never seen zero people playing when the server is available to the public, or any number close to zero.

You also say that I cannot understand a plea for help. I understand them just fine when someone sincerely asks for help and does not imply that I must do things for them if I want them to stay and then toss on a I would do this but as if I am the one keeping you from doing something, that is not a plea for help in my book and nor will I change my definition because you think I am wrong.

Based on your own statements help has to be coming from someone other than yourself (since you find exploring the death realm and finding your own way out unacceptable which I could call self-help in a sense) so I find it surprising that you would find displeasure in my response that suggested you wait for the help of others. I find that logic circular, you claim to want help, to be pleading for it even, but yet you do not want to wait for someone to be available to help you...

I'm sorry that you accidentally died. It happens. You propose final death, so you would prefer to "accidentally die from sliding down a cliff" and have your character deleted (perma death) to finding your way out of the death realm. My personal opinion disagrees with a change like that. Accidents happen, from an odd game mechanic or ones own fault. I have died at the hands of an accident (falling off something I was trying to get down and other times pressing the wrong key and running over a cliff when trying to chat) and I have had my own experience in the death realm, and I did make my way out - with a much better understanding of the realm.

Things like being given the option to lose all items, aren't immersive and don't fit into the concept of the area. As was mentioned above, the death realm will grow - not fade away into something we do not deal with.

Thank you for giving me some credit, I do appreciate that you are willing to meet me somewhat, if not half way on the topic of discussion. I also am glad that you think the game shows promise, it is nice to hear. On the contrary we are dead set in making the game better and we strive to do so every day - to each his or her own. I wish you much luck in finding a game that fits your criteria and standards.

At this point, I must say that I agree with Karyuu's sentiment:

I'm sorry PlaneShift doesn't quite come up to your standards yet, and I hope in the future once we add more features and solve more problems, you will return and have a better time.

[Kerol]

If a mod finds this post not fitting into this topic and inappropriate, please split.

I don't IRC anyone or IM or any other chat.  It is too risky in my estimation.  Sorry, and thanks for the offer.

3 reasons why this estimation should be reconsidered:

First I like to make some things clear.
"Risk" in this context is limitted to:
- Finding out your external IP address and trying to access your network/computer ressources
- Exploitation of a security risk of a chat client installed on your computer
- Social engineering and exploitation of low education and/or weak mindset

"Chat" means real-time textmessaging, being a combination of a phone call and email, used as primary means of communication for instance in PlaneShift (the game).
"pm" means "private message" which comes down to leaving a message for another forum user, being stored on the same server and displayed in a similar way as forum posts, but only visible to the recipient.
"IRC" means "internet relay chat" which is a specific communication protocol to relay chat messages from one user(-client) over several interconnected servers to another user(-client) or a group of users.

1. IRC is a well-tested and comparing to the development of the internet a very old protocol (according to wikipedia established 1988) used in many applications. If you are interested in learning on how it works, check the original memo to the internet community.
PS is using Freenode for IRC services. Freenode is a suborganisation of the nonprofit-organisation Peer-Directed Projects Center and is administered by volunteers. The network is set up with the purpose to provide FOSS projects a base for communication.
By using IRC on freenode you reveal your IP address to administrators of the network. To hide your IP from common users you easily can set up a cloak. However, if this scares you, you should be aware that your IP address is visible to the admins of these forums, to GMs and devs if you play PS, to any host of homepages you may visit.
Since you should have no open services or network ressources either way, revealing your public IP to anyone is a neglectible risk.

2. It is not mandatory to use an IRC client installed on your computer like mIRC, which is a well-known and thoroughly tested client. You also can use clients that are web-based. This requires your webbrowser to be trustable and bugfree, which is even more questionable since it is a lot more complex than a simple IRC client (thus viewing any webpage would pose a bigger threat than using IRC over freenode).

3. Social engineering can happen anytime human communication takes place. The only way to protect yourself is education and the intelligence to avoid people who want to manipulate you. Since in this case the only reason you should have entered into communication using chat as means was to approach someone who could help you the time you need help.

As a PM may not be read immediately, chat may be preferable in this case.

If you still think chat using IRC over the freenode network is too risky, you should also reconsider the usage of MMORPGs and with this PS.

Last but not least I would like to point out that the said above mainly goes for forum PM and IRC using freenode as network. "Chat" as an obscure general term cannot be applied in discussing risks. For instance I would not recommend (if security is the primary priority) the usage of ICQ (because accounts are hacked and used by the internet mafia) or Skype (since they do not reveal their sourcecode and thus may pose security threats without users knowing, see Eric Raymond's essay The Cathedral and the Bazaar).

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Heh, I have a simple suggestion . . .

Once you realize how easy it is go get out of the Death Realm you are gonna feel sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo silly!

You will likely look back on this and think, "gods, I was such a rude little nooblet, why were these people patient with me at all?"

If you go into a biker bar and say, "I think motorcycles are stupid, and anyone who rides one is a complete idiot." you are likely to get your ass handed to you. In essence that is what you have done here, and instead of kicking your butt, we listened, advised, and offered aid.

Now one more point. Where else in the world of gaming does a new player get to submit a complaint and have 3 devs and the gm team leader answer all of their questions? No where!!!

Please take our advice in the positive manner it was given.

[Illysia]

Sorry nude0007, if you think it is just simply a matter of making it better then I think you got the devs mixed up with tinkerbell. Nobody gave them pixie dust to throw on the game to instantly make it "better."  However, if you want check out this thread : http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32017.msg367839;topicseen#msg367839 This game might work a little better for you. 

[Ravenguard]

Personally, I'd imagine a plea for help being more immediate (like the Help channel, or petition), rather than writing on a forum.  Otherwise, you're just opening yourself up for people calling you out on it.

I think the Devs should have pixie dust.  They could have some *real* fun then. 

I have to say, Xillix, I felt that way when I got out my first time...  in fact, I went and jumped off a ledge to do it again, as sort of a realization of how simple it was. 3 hours turned to less than ten minutes.  I was -> 

But, from now on, whenever I read one of Kerol's posts, I will don my aluminum foil hat (because it's better than tin), to protect my brain from his social conditioning.

[MustangMR]

Well, I know you'd probably rather just have this thread die, but it's your own fault for making me rest so much.  There's not a lot of RP'ing being done down in the mine.  At least my wireless reaches there.

The OP still makes valid points, and I'd agree with every problem and suggestion he made.  But my vote and support is with the developers.  This is a labor of love for them, done on their own free time, and as such they can make whatever game they feel like.  I kind of like the different approach.  I've been lost in the game as well, but it's slowly getting smaller and I'm learning my way around.  The roads are more than sufficient, and eventually you get to learn the lay of the land.  It's not all cookie cutter hills and rivers.  Once you find a few key roadmarks and what to do once you see em, it's pretty easy.  I was especially thankful to the NPC that clearly explained to me how to get to the magic shop.

My only addition is to echo that there are some serious bugs that should be worked on before new features are added.  It's just a better idea from a software development standpoint to get things stable before moving on.  You can end up with bugs that build off of bugs, making it even harder to debug.  It seems that the dev's are not concerned with some issues because they have advanced beyond it.  That's understandable, but I would think some concern should be given to the new people who come here and find things just a bit frustrating to get going.

[Jeraphon]

I was especially thankful to the NPC that clearly explained to me how to get to the magic shop.

You're welcome. Good to see at least some players out there are using the NPCs for directions.