Suggestion: Release the Game in Expansions

[Mesmer]

The game's lore contains many races, deities, areas and planes to explore. It seems the team is trying to implement all of it at once, which is too much for a non-commercial team to do. This has got to be frustrating for both, the players and the developers. Imagine popular commercial MMORPGs trying to release all of its expansions released over the years at once for the first time.

Currently, it looks like the team is trying to create a world, not a game. Take a look at MMORPGs based on popular fantasy settings and see what made it into the main release before the expansions. They didn't try to ram a world into the game. Instead, they picked a story within the world. And that's with commercial teams working on those games. Sure, part of it is for marketing reasons but it also takes a commercial team a while to release what you get in the initial release and each expansion. That means you can concentrate on one thing at a time and put better effort into it.

The original PlaneShift setting only had three "deities", for example. That would've been enough for the first release. That doesn't mean that the lore shouldn't have expanded but not everything has to be available right away, especially as a playable choice/path for a player. Some can be only referenced and/or reserved for NPCs until later expansions.

How do you release the game in expansions? Pick a story within the PlaneShift setting, instead of trying to create a world. Think up why some particular parties are invlovled in the initial story and go with it. Then gradually introduce the rest. Since the team's time and budget are limited, be clever about it. If Yliakum has several levels and it takes a while before even one is completed, incorporate it into the story. Think up a reason of why the races can't travel to other levels yet. Maybe each evel has lived in an isolation? Then once discovered, it can introduce new and interesting elements into the game. Also, mini-expansions can be called content patches.

Trying to do everything at once gives the game a very slow progression rate and no sense of accomplishment. Even though the game is free, good management and planning cannot be overlooked.

Thanks.

[Illysia]

Basically, each release is the equivalent of an expansion pack. Also, the typical expansion method doesn't work as well with PS. Already, players have a decent amount of input as to content and direction of certain elements of the game. From the beginning, there were probably more than three gods, but only those three were explored. Over time players wanted more gods and so here is where Xiosia and Dakkru come from.

The only way to focus the development process enough for expansions to be a viable solution is to get the whole community to agree to move in a unified direction and not complain about the things that will get ignored while each expansions objectives are worked on. As it stands that isn't even remotely likely to happen. The Devs are constantly bombarded by conflicting complaints and have to try and balance that. *shrugs* It's pretty amazing some of the things that have already been implemented considering.

Also, even breaking things down into expansion packs is still a lot of work and the Dev staff is just understaffed. No amount of dividing into expansion packs will change that. Right now, the best means of speeding up the process is joining the team and contributing work, If you have a skill that will be of use to the game, sign up for the team. 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I appreciate the thought you put into your post mesmer.

Until we get to 1.0, we won't be doing "expansion packs" as that makes no sense.

What you've suggested is a wonderful idea that we're simply incapable of adhering to atm.

I hope you will continue to make thoughtful posts.

[Mesmer]

Thanks for replying. I'll try to explain a little further to make sure everyone understands what I was suggesting.

Is PlaneShift treated as a fantasy setting or a story within a fantasy setting? An example of a major expansion could be PlaneShift: Kadaikos, for example.

Just the Yliakum itself, however, is supposed to have eight grades/levels overall, which is quite a big task to implement. Is there any particular reason why it needs to have many grades, other than to be "like Dante's Inferno"? Why not three levels instead of eight? Why not one level? You have to ask yourselves what other grades bring into the game? Do they enhance it at all? Are you planning a single or two capital cities per different race on each grade? That and some random villages maybe? Do you need eight grades for that? Do you need to implement twelve races at once?

Why not change the setting where only some races have entered Yliakum through portals, for example? The world can start with Lemurs and Kran plus a couple of races that were "lured" into the portals. Then the new races can be gradually introduced in the new expansions. New Yliakum grades can be created by deities through a progressive storyline. New deities can be implemented the same way. What good are five deities at once, if each is progressing slower than three? This would let you concentrate on fewer things at a time, and, therefore, put a better effort into each. This would get you a lot faster to 1.0.

This solves some major issues right away. Releasing a 1.0 sooner means no more character wipes. Every addition is simply an expansion of the game. If someone wants to try a new race or join a new faction, they'd have to roll a new character anyway but that is normal for MMORPGs and is not a big deal. Not having all 3D models for every race means that essential content is always missing. Compare this to new race or class introductions in commercial MMORPG expansions -- usually an exciting bonus. Point -- a better psychological effect. Suddenly, breaking the game into expansions makes all the sense in the world.

Trying to comfort players by advertising "friendships" despite character wipes doesn't work because they can get friendships in other MMORPGs, plus keep their characters. This isn't just about character wipes but about a better game management. Break it up into "bite-size" pieces and you can get there sooner, with better efficiency and less frustration for everyone.

I'm already on a game development team for a different project but I'm flattered that soneone is trying to recruit me. This is still a way to help and give feedback. Considering that I'm suggesting less, not more work, this is a good suggestion, which is for people already on the team, for those who chose to take that responsibility. Let's say I'm on the team, would I be able to change the project's management in the way that I suggested here as a first step? Even if I were to sign up for this team, I'd still look at the project's fundamentals, like management, first before applying my skill. Without a good project management, any skill would be a waste of time.

Thanks.

PS Illysia, are you the team's official recruiter or contributor/developer?

[Mordraugion]

I hate doing it but I'm going to try and answer your points one by one hopefully without causing offence as none is intended

Is PlaneShift treated as a fantasy setting or a story within a fantasy setting? An example of a major expansion could be PlaneShift: Kadaikos, for example.

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here, I have no doubt that as when Oja/BD/Gug were revealed, Kadaikos will be in a new release does this make them expansion packs? or is it just semantics?

Just the Yliakum itself, however, is supposed to have eight grades/levels overall, which is quite a big task to implement. Is there any particular reason why it needs to have many grades, other than to be "like Dante's Inferno"? Why not three levels instead of eight? Why not one level? You have to ask yourselves what other grades bring into the game? Do they enhance it at all? Are you planning a single or two capital cities per different race on each grade? That and some random villages maybe? Do you need eight grades for that? Do you need to implement twelve races at once?

Kind of like asking Tolkien to cut out the Mines of Moria or Amon Hen to make the book an easier read and less effort to write. Forget about the fact they are levels and think of them as land to be explored and utilised, as for what cities are planned and where suffice to say each level will have its unique qualities and locations. Implementing all races at once, well we are missing a few models and going back to tolkien did he need all the different races or could he have done it all with Elves?

Why not change the setting where only some races have entered Yliakum through portals, for example? The world can start with Lemurs and Kran plus a couple of races that were "lured" into the portals. Then the new races can be gradually introduced in the new expansions. New Yliakum grades can be created by deities through a progressive storyline. New deities can be implemented the same way. What good are five deities at once, if each is progressing slower than three? This would let you concentrate on fewer things at a time, and, therefore, put a better effort into each. This would get you a lot faster to 1.0.

Why change the settings at all? none of it influences the speed we'll reach 1.0 we can write new stuff much faster than the coders can implement it.

This solves some major issues right away. Releasing a 1.0 sooner means no more character wipes. Every addition is simply an expansion of the game. If someone wants to try a new race or join a new faction, they'd have to roll a new character anyway but that is normal for MMORPGs and is not a big deal. Not having all 3D models for every race means that essential content is always missing. Compare this to new race or class introductions in commercial MMORPG expansions -- usually an exciting bonus. Point -- a better psychological effect. Suddenly, breaking the game into expansions makes all the sense in the world.

Trying to comfort players by advertising "friendships" despite character wipes doesn't work because they can get friendships in other MMORPGs, plus keep their characters. This isn't just about character wipes but about a better game management. Break it up into "bite-size" pieces and you can get there sooner, with better efficiency and less frustration for everyone.

Still the misapprehension that we are in a race to get to 1.0 and that setting is the restricting force. Character wipes, now I have been involved with PlaneShift for nearly 5 years as a Player a GM and now in the Settings dept in that time there has been one full db character wipe in summer 2005 other than that a couple of minor item/cash wipes to fix bug exploitation is the limit of the wipes since CB came out in Dec 2004.

I'm already on a game development team for a different project but I'm flattered that soneone is trying to recruit me. This is still a way to help and give feedback. Considering that I'm suggesting less, not more work, this is a good suggestion, which is for people already on the team, for those who chose to take that responsibility. Let's say I'm on the team, would I be able to change the project's management in the way that I suggested here as a first step? Even if I were to sign up for this team, I'd still look at the project's fundamentals, like management, first before applying my skill. Without a good project management, any skill would be a waste of time.

Feedback is always good.
I like to think of PlaneShift as the Rolls Royce of mmorpg's (or will be when we finish) so to cut things out, reduce races and levels just to get that magic 1.0 version number would be like turning our Phantom into a Reliant Robin for the sake of speed and then using expansion packs to try and convert it back to a Rolls.
The team isn't a democracy but more a benevolent dictatorship led by Talad, Xillix, Venge and acraig.
While I think you have some good ideas here, I'm not convinced that your way is the best nor that there is any one "right" way to make a project like this work.

Thanks.

PS Illysia, are you the team's official recruiter or contributor/developer?

Illysia is super cool
 
Thanks for your posts, it's nice to have well thought out constructive criticism, once more I'd like to point out that art for models etc, code to make all the skills work etc, bug hunting all have far more impact on our release schedule than Settings Lore, btw may I ask what you particular skillset is and which Game project you are involved with?

[Illysia]

Why not change the setting where only some races have entered Yliakum through portals, for example? The world can start with Lemurs and Kran plus a couple of races that were "lured" into the portals. Then the new races can be gradually introduced in the new expansions. New Yliakum grades can be created by deities through a progressive storyline. New deities can be implemented the same way. What good are five deities at once, if each is progressing slower than three? This would let you concentrate on fewer things at a time, and, therefore, put a better effort into each. This would get you a lot faster to 1.0.

You forget that this isn't a regular MMO, the RP aspect makes drastically rewriting the settings a troublesome (for the players) prospect. Retconning history can throw of years or RPs and trust me, people who RP that long get real cranky about that.

Not only that, it's just a pain to completely rewrite that much story. I personally get tired writing out short term stuff. Having to rewrite the epochs along would make my head explode and that would also cause a major slow down in work as all priorities would have to be shifted after getting Talad's approval on the changes.... (whenever that would happen)

PS Illysia, are you the team's official recruiter or contributor/developer?

Why yes, I do contribute and have been for some time now. 

[Under the moon]

You would be surprised at how much you can change without seeming to change anything.

History is fun to write and rewrite.

[Zalera13]

Though people might get just a little bit angry about loosing there characters. If you reverted to kran and lemur.

[Gravemind]

Damn straight I would be angry if I lost my klyros.

*goes back to wherever he's been hiding for the past year*

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Expansions come when a game is complete, that's just how it works.