/challenge machanics for arena NPCs

[Bonifarzia]

Allow me to introduce a simple idea with a quote from an older discussion.

I'll just note this. The idea of the arena is that is is a place where fighters come to engage in combat to test and improve their skills. The arena isn't really designed, or intended for ranged combat at this time. As Durgrem mentioned since some mobs are a little out of balance we are tolerating some wall killing but when the mobs are properly balanced wall magic killing isn't going to be acceptable in the arena. If you want to do that sort of thing to practice your magic then find a place out in the wilds to do it. Remember the idea and spirt of the arena is it is a place that fighters do battle with each other in the pit and some times for the entertainment of others watching form the stands. Not very entertaining watching someone standing on or behind a wall safely firing magic at a mob

A small visit at the arena or a look at recent  forum threads shows that this subject is still relevant.


The suggestion, point by point

• Make arena NPCs such as gladiators and mercenaries impervious to attack by default.
• Offer players the mechanics to actively challenge these NPCs, either via the /challenge command or an NPC dialog option.
• As soon as the NPC accepts the challenge, he will attack. This is to prevent those two or three free hits players get by cowardly attacking from behind.
• Allow the NPC to yield, i.e. to switch back to an impervious and passive state as soon as the challenger fights unfair, i.e.  the gladiator is damaged by ranged attacks.
• As part of the /challenge mechanics, a victorious gladiator may have the choice to spare his opponents life.
• Make the NPC reject challenges from characters that have recently been defeated or fought unfair. Also refuse challenges if the NPC is not at full health.
• Instead of the /loot mechanics, the window for the selection of quest rewards could be used to choose from some randomized items.
• In return, a defeated player whose life is spared could lose some tria, or maybe one of the weapons the character was wielding.

[kaerli2]

Problem: some spells (those that create their effect on the target, such as Psychic Blow) SHOULD be allowed to go through walls (if you think about it, it makes sense...the energy of the Crystal itself is not limited by line of sight, otherwise we wouldn't be able to cast spells indoors lol)

Also: it's possible to /challenge someone from a distance, or through a wall even!  So, your suggestion by itself wouldn't work, fully...hitbeams for projectiles (whether summoned by magic or fired from a weapon) are what's needed here.

[RlyDontKnow]

if we're lucky the "NPCs are too dumb to get around walls" problem solves itself thanks to the path finding GSoC project in CS... we'll see if it'll just walk around the wall, the time of firing magic from a wall is over, anyway

[Bonifarzia]

About the mentioned "problems", i refer to points four and six of my suggestion.

Actually, what I had in mind is not the firing of arrows and spells through walls, but the setting: The IC understanding of challenging a gladiator in the arena greatly differs from the common way people hunt down those mobs to gain some loot, encouraged by the restrictions of the mechanics.

One intention here is to get rid of the backstabbing opening move and the coward assassination of gladiators from a distance, which is still unfair even if the terrain allows the gladiator to catch up with the spellcaster. In contrast, when dealing with arena beasts or rogues, I don't see any problems with that.

The other aspect of this is to have another combat interaction with NPCs that differs from common PvM, that involves no necessity of killing but more player skill, and that might justify different and potentially more valuable rewards. To complete this comment, I want to emphasize that this is not yet another thread about "I want more game mechanics to enforce my personal understanding of RP".

[Rigwyn]

I really like the ideas in the original post. They would eliminate a number of problems plus add to the game's realism. Thre idea of a non-lethal fight makes a lot of sense too. While dying is not the time stopping event that it is on earth, planeshift dwellers do know the dying weakens them and that there is a chance that they could fail to return.

I infer from RlyDontKnow's post that this type of logic is determined by crystal space and not by the planeshift code ?

Another nice addition would be targets or dummies for training. One can only kill so many things. In a world where polluting is punushable by death because of the size and constraints of the environment, it makes no sense for people to trying by slaughtering everything in sight. Its just not sustainable. Characters should hunt only for food (and entertainment perhaps ), not for experience. It would make more sense for experience to be awarded for working a training dummy and participating in fights ( lethal and non lethal ) with gladiators.
I would also think that a fight instructor might have a non leathal fight with a student in order to teach hime to fight. This would make more sense than *bling* "thanks for the tria, you are now one level stronger. Please come again sometime."

[kaerli2]

I really like the ideas in the original post. They would eliminate a number of problems plus add to the game's realism. Thre idea of a non-lethal fight makes a lot of sense too. While dying is not the time stopping event that it is on earth, planeshift dwellers do know the dying weakens them and that there is a chance that they could fail to return.

I infer from RlyDontKnow's post that this type of logic is determined by crystal space and not by the planeshift code ?

Another nice addition would be targets or dummies for training. One can only kill so many things. In a world where polluting is punushable by death because of the size and constraints of the environment, it makes no sense for people to trying by slaughtering everything in sight. Its just not sustainable. Characters should hunt only for food (and entertainment perhaps ), not for experience. It would make more sense for experience to be awarded for working a training dummy and participating in fights ( lethal and non lethal ) with gladiators.
I would also think that a fight instructor might have a non leathal fight with a student in order to teach hime to fight. This would make more sense than *bling* "thanks for the tria, you are now one level stronger. Please come again sometime."

Yeah, being able to spar sentient NPCs would be good.   Same with training dummies, although Kaerli tends to use herself as one when teaching others how to fight   Also, how about spells for creating "fake"/dummy humanoid-looking mirages?  I could see that being useful for target practice in a pinch, among other things....

[RlyDontKnow]

I infer from RlyDontKnow's post that this type of logic is determined by crystal space and not by the planeshift code ?

no, right now it's all done in PS, however there's a project at CS atm that integrates an a lot more powerful path finding algorithm which - if we're lucky - could be used by PS once it's done to stop NPCs from being that dumb. e.g. instead of walking against a stone, they'd walk around it. instead of walking against the wall you stand on, they *should* walk up to you, etc.

[kaerli2]

I infer from RlyDontKnow's post that this type of logic is determined by crystal space and not by the planeshift code ?

no, right now it's all done in PS, however there's a project at CS atm that integrates an a lot more powerful path finding algorithm which - if we're lucky - could be used by PS once it's done to stop NPCs from being that dumb. e.g. instead of walking against a stone, they'd walk around it. instead of walking against the wall you stand on, they *should* walk up to you, etc.

Yeah, PROPER (A* anyone?) pathfinding would make the mobs about 10x less boneheaded.

[RlyDontKnow]

there's already A* in CEL.
anyway, what's currently being integrated is this
however we'd still need a PS implementation of A*, so yeah, *may* be reusable