Game Independence

[Vengeance]

/me once again dubs Paxx \"Rex Inscriptiae Elongae\" or \"King of the Long Post\".  :-)

Nice post and informative as well Paxx.  Keep it up.

[LoreWeaver]

Paxx,

Thanks for all the advice.  I am prepared to alter whatever LQ rules make sense to put it into an online environment.  I\'m no stranger to rule changes.  The current incarnation of LQ is the 7th edition and I\'ve already got a lot of ideas for changes for the 8th.  But, I must admit that the idea of making 8th edition LQ an online venture is the biggest of them all ;-)

And, I am under no delusions that doing such a thing will be easy.  In fact, that\'s why I haven\'t absolutely committed to doing it yet.  I\'ve first got to find enough people willing to help out on the project, which is not going to be easy.

As far as enforcing role-play, you can\'t.  Or, rather, you shouldn\'t even attempt it.  What you can do is make the rules of the game encourage role-play.  That is, make it funner to role-play than not.  How do you do that?  Well, there are a number of ideas for standard pen and paper games.  We\'ve actually been discussing this topic on the LQ discussion forums lately.  In fact, the biggest change for 8th edition so far is that we\'re going to be getting away from a D&D style alignment system to something more appropriate for Heros undertaking Legendary Quests in a mythological setting.  If you want to take a look at our discussions on this topic, go to the the following link:

http://www.ravensrook.com/lq/messages/8/36.html?1064839606

A lot of what we are planning is too subjective for an online game, but some of the ideas are not.  To start with, you have to decide what it is your game is all about.  That is, what exactly are the roles that are available to players?  For example, suppose you want to simulate chivalry.  How do you do that?  Well, you\'ve first got to set up some rules about what it is to be chivalrous.  These must be physically observable actions on the part of the players.  Next, you must be able to detect when these actions occur in situations where it would be detrimental to the player to have performed the action.  For example, say you decide that swinging at an unarmed opponent is unchivalrous.  Then, if a chivalrous character refrains from swinging at an opponent who drops his weapon, you know he is role-playing his persona.  After all, there isn\'t any other good reason why he\'d ignore his advantage.  At that point, you reward him significantly somehow.  That will more than make up for whatever the character lost by not swinging, brings the player more in tune with the character\'s \"morals\", and ends up making the game more fun for everyone.

As far as having played other online games, I haven\'t really done much.  I\'ve played a few evenings using some friends\' accounts, but that\'s all.  I\'ve avoided them mainly because it could potentially take a lot of time away from writing.  But, if I\'m going to create my own MMORPG, that\'s a different story and I\'ll have to get up to speed with the state-of-the-art.  (I have thoroughly enjoyed running around the PlaneShift dungeons in the past week.)

Sorry for the long reply.

[paxx]

When I have a bit more time, I?ll look more deeply at your rules and speak on them a bit at your forum if I see it as appropriate.

The only thing I am saying as far as rules changing is more about the medium you have to work in.

Never Winter Nights is a great example in changing 3rd ED D&D rules to fit the game.

As far as research, I would recommend ATM one of the two major fantasy MMORPGS EQ and or DAOC, then Toon Town, and possibly   Star wars galaxies. But in reality the major thing is to play one of the fantasy ones to a point of competence with the character. And that takes time. The key is to play one of these as a player, (to gain that player perspective) this is getting harder and harder for me since I started on this project.

But one you play one to competency, you can see the differences between others and the reasons for some things.

Shadow Bane is a great example of great ideas going to hell. (though I hear it has improved somewhat).

I almost have to say that I can?t stand these games anymore?but they draw me in for a few weeks or so?and then I wonder why I am playing.

I have a broad paper and pencil background?much tweaking rules, never making my own 100% but you would have to say that by the end of some of the tweaks they where mostly mine.

Shadow run is really my true love in role playing, but it has major flaws (troll being able to swallow a grenade and survive for one, shurikens and grenades costing the same for another) but it is a great world, and an action/result system that fits perfectly in the genre.

The only major published system I think fits it?s genre better was/is Earthdawn but by the time I was playing that I was really sick of fantasy and shadowrun overshadowed it so to speak.

But the thing I don?t think I will be able to stress enough is getting good art direction and capable artists willing to take direction and work for free is possibly the hardest thing. In art I speak both 2D and 3D but in writing as well.

Making dialog for ten thousand NPC most of will never be used by more then one percent of the players is not incredible fun.

Plus everyone wants to do the ?cool stuff? and no one wants to do the crap jobs.

I am as guilty of it as the next guy.

Through your past good work, you have a following that would give you a head start on many things, but the devil is always in the details. You have many of those fleshed out, the coders will come I am sure, and they won?t need to be incredibly innovative?though the better they are the better the result. But because you can step up on our shoulders and we have ironed a lot out, you would just need to add your rules and art into the mix. Since our wonderful coding team has jumped the many hurdles in getting it to a point of stable playability.


In reality I am quite hopeful that you go for it, you defiantly have the perseverance.

Out of all the posters that have said they would like to make their own game, yours has rung as the most probable of meeting that goal.

I?m quite sure you would be a very welcome addition to our team as well?(I must ask) but lack of creative liberty might be an issue you would rather avoid since you have plans to do your own similar project.


time for sleep :-)

[derwoodly]

*applauds the post*
I am going to print and frame the post.  It should be on the PS home page or something.

Paxx, your response was great.
[edit: gave Paxx credit]