Way to keep Planeshift free

[Snodgrass]

Well Link,

I didn\'t say the software cost $50.  I said the distribution costs $50.  There is a big difference.  The distribution comes with a whole lot of things that aren\'t under the license.  This means you\'re getting something that isn\'t free software in a distribution.   If you try to just download the Linux package you\'ve got an incredible amount of work on your hands. So a Linux distribution has the value added feature of working out of the box.  As far as spelling is concerned you\'re worse than most teachers and this isn\'t exactly a school forum.  As far as being a newbie to Linux I don\'t think so.  Quite frankly I\'d rather have a few spelling mistakes than to use profanity on a forum.  

I can\'t believe you took the bait.

[Aruneko]

People make spelling mistakes on forums, Link.  Deal with it.

[Pheonix]

I disagree, with you about downloading Linux being a lot of work.

[Link]

Well it\'s nice to see that you learned to spell Linux, and Downloading a ISO and burning it to a CD, is just the same as going to pick it off the shelves, there is nothing hard about it.

[Snodgrass]

Sorry about the deception Link.  However, seeing how you tortured, rather elegant torture I might admit, the poor Newbies that needed help I could not resist.  

It won\'t happen again.  However, I appreciate the fact that you are able to find the error in the last post after Phoenix, of course, pointed it out so elegantly without a whole lot of sarcasm.  

So, let\'s get to the point of how to make money at this without charging the players.  You pointed out (and by the way it is not that your points are bad, in fact you seem to be a rather clear thinker, just boiling out the sarcasm is tedious) that the plane shift crew owns the artwork.  I did a little leg work and talked to a couple of artists and one was a pure artist, the other was a graphic artist for a company.  It seems that with pitiful little modification the art is not yours anymore.  It seems like a sad fact but apparantly copyright law is a little fuzzy when it comes to that sort of thing.  As an example, there was a credit card company that patently ripped off (alledgedly) a painting by Salvadore Dolly.  The plaintiffs that owned the painting lost!  This means those poor guys took a truck load of cash and burned it at the expense of litigation.  Unfortunately it seems that modified artwork is fairly easy to do.  If you\'ve ever played with a program called the Gimp you\'ll know exactly what I\"m talking about. I hope this answers your questions about owning the art.  

However, let\'s turn the argument on its head.  Who cares.  If somebody wants to run a game and run the software and art, that the game has to offer, it\'s the game.  If somebody wants to put their Logo in the game and host it whatever.  It\'s free.  They will probably need technical help to maintain the game and if you read the discussion about Licensing the support is not free.  This means that this group could charge a fee to help them.  Then there is the money.  Unfortunately we need product to leverage in order to make it happen.  Kind of reminiscent of the old Linux story isn\'t it?  

It\'s amazing what one night of school does for your speling.

[Vengeance]

This is simply not the case.

Check out http://www.chillingeffects.org/derivative/ to read all about derivative works and who controls what.  The FAQ link at the bottom of the page provides many useful examples, all of which point to the fact that someone cannot simply make trivial changes to our artwork and release their own game legally.

However, I\'m also not saying this will stop anybody.  The derivative works case law applies only in America, and I\'m sure other countries have different rules.  In the case of an international team, it is hard to say even what country\'s laws would apply, let alone how they would be applied.

Add that to the fact that the PS team has NO ability to prosecute anyone we think is infringing and you realize it is all basically on the honor system.  :-)

- Venge

[Snodgrass]

This is a part of the document you recommended.  This is probably what the artists were talking about.  They are not lawyers and may find themselves in court some day over this exact issue.  However,  it doesn\'t seem cut and dry.  

Derivative Works

\"A more complicated question arises when the second creator uses only part of the original work or substantially transforms it in some way. There are many cases involving art made with Barbie dolls that raise this more difficult legal issue.\"

By chillingeffects.org

At any rate, back to the topic of how to make money... Setting up a service to help out an organization wanting to put on a meet seems to make perfect sense.  You could even put it together as a package deal.  It is unlikely that the organization that wanted to put on the event would have the skill sets necessary to pull it off.  And this is where the plane shift crew comes in.  You store people\'s characters as a separate file that could be pulled into the game.  This would give the organization wanting to work with this an instant character population.  You could work with the organization to put the advertising in.  A few suggestions on how to get the product endorsements into the game could be made by the plane shift crew.  For instance,  opening credits, finding an item that would open up a screen to some prize, the delay time between module loads when moving from section to section could have a screen with an ad and probably a lot of other things that I can\'t think of because I\'m not really good at advertising.  

So, the advantages are the plane shift group gets a little money, the player gets server time, and the modifications are relatively simple (eg. they don\'t require a whole lot of programming.)

[Vengeance]

Here is what I was talking about:

Question: Can I take a character from a movie, like Chewbacca from Star Wars, and use it in a play with a very different plot and otherwise different characters?

Answer: Probably not.  The people who hold copyright in Star Wars own the characters as well as the plot, the filmed images, etc.  Placing a distinctive fictional character in a different context or medium is still copying that character, and therefore infringement.

This means you cannot use Planeshift races or characters in your game and try to make a different game out of it.

Question: Can I make a sculpture based on a photograph without permission?

Answer: No. The sculpture would be a derivative work.  

This means you cannot create models of your own based on our concept art or settings descriptions.

Question: Can I write a book of trivia questions based on a television show?

Answer: Probably not.  A court held that a book of trivia questions based on the television show Seinfeld was substantially similar to the show itself and therefore could be treated as a ?copy? of Seinfeld.  The court also held that the trivia book damaged the producers market for derivative works.

This means even fan art and fan fiction are technically prohibited without the express permission of the PS team.  This is how EQ and others control their stuff and get people\'s websites taken down, etc.

Hope that clarifies it.

- Vengeance

[Fanomatic2000]

Here comes some commercial ideas for PS.

1. If you want you can manifacture your own Coka-Cola, Pepsi, NIKE shirt, and then you sell it to the crowd.

2. When you die you go to the Coka-Cola hell and have to walk by 200 Coka-Cola posters before you can ressurect.

3. The stadium is a perfect place for commercials. Between the fights a guy drinks a Pepsi and tells you how great and refreshing it tastes.

4. If you\'re a hight lvl cook you can make Big-Macs to sell. They will increase your stamina and your HP

[Kiern]

um...that\'s already been talked about, not sure if it was this thread since they all sound the same, but pretty much, no  

[kinshadow]

In-game ads are lame.  An ATI/nVidia/Intel Splash screen or banner website ads are fine, but anything else is really in poor taste.  Hopefully, the game will aquire a set of steady sponsers once it actually needs them.  Maybe MB (or the release after) will get the word out and we\'ll see some public interest.

On a side-note, has PS news ever been posted to /.  ?
I know the site probably couldn\'t handle the trafic, but that is a nice resource of players/devs/geeks in general to get publicity if it is wanted or needed.

[Vengeance]

We are deliberately waiting on posting to places like /. until the game is more mature and better.  My vote is to really go live with publicity when we release Crystal Blue, after MB.

- Venge

[Creathor]

I agree complitely with Gronomist, Let\'s just stop talking about this. Unless the Devs change their minds it\'s useless. And why did we start a huge discussion about how to spell Linux, let\'s just end this conversation now.  IT\'S USELESS!