Just a Story ? hhmmm

[fidohey]

Just a short Intro for those that haven\'t read the official \"explanation of kill stealing\"

The rules concerning \"kill stealing\" is as follows:

Nobody owns a spawn, and nobody owns any attackable NPC unless they are already fighting it!

Taking an NPC from someone when they have already started an attack is considered kill stealing and will be punishable by GMs through warnings, and then further actions if the player continues.

There is no need to ask players around a spawn whether you can \"join\" - everyone has a right to hunt or attack NPCs, and no one can refuse to share with you, since there is no ownership.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I was as everyday at the arena trying to make some trias and bring back to my wife at Ojaveda some fishes and apples for dinner.As i was happy with my looting from that nice Blue glad i had infront of me , i realised that my Client was writing in bold red letters a strange word ... You must be grouped with S..l to attack gladiator...By the holly lost script and the holly book of names i thought, that can\'t be true!!. After a couple of seconds i saw a guy standing next to me but i didn\'t pay much attention. I continued my hunting waiting for that glad to appear again. Happily, he appeared again, i click on the shortcut, i have my swords up in the air ready for the first hit and !!!BANG!!! the gladiator was dead, nice hit someone may say, but it wasn\'t dead by me but from that strange \"idiotic,annoying\" figure standing right behind me.By the gods, for a second time the same?? I was upset.. that can\'t be true, i shouted S..L don\'t steal my kill anymore, i waited a little while with no response and that rude \"tefusang waste\" came again and woohoo he killed  the glad that was standing infront of me. Afte 10 more secs a \"flood\" of shouts started appearing in my message box, all complaining about that person.Seems that he enjoys killing so much and loves trias too,but as long as he is there what can we do ? pray to laanx to take him away? Irealised it was late and i wanted to go to my wife.Sad as i was with only 14 fishes and 4Long Swords  i was on my way back home.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
What i want to say with that \"story\" is that players shouldn\'t take advantage of lower ping times to kill NPCs while the other player just saw the NPC appearing and tried to attack.
Maybe game masters should reconsider the rules and change the part that says \"Don\'t ask players to join\" cause everytime that person is going to be online everybody will loose their kills.i think players should ask if \"they can join\" and if they really want to follow that \"don\'t ask to join\" stance, they should wait for at least 2secs after the glad appeared and then attack\"steal\" it . The meaning of sharing is lost with such persons .!

[Karyuu]

Asking to join would be silly for characters that are loners, mischevious/\"evil\"/unfriendly, etc. It\'s a completely out-of-character action for many. Just because you\'re standing at a spawn doesn\'t mean you, or anyone else, has exclusive first-owner rights to it.. :) Move to another spawn if someone bothers you.

It would be \"nice\" if everyone asked everyone else to share, but utterly unrealistic.

[Baldur]

Originally posted by Karyuu
Asking to join would be silly for characters that are loners, mischevious/\"evil\"/unfriendly, etc. It\'s a completely out-of-character action for many. Just because you\'re standing at a spawn doesn\'t mean you, or anyone else, has exclusive first-owner rights to it.. Move to another spawn if someone bothers you.

It would be \"nice\" if everyone asked everyone else to share, but utterly unrealistic.

Hrumm, we actually DO share, at least the good characters.
If i find someone at the spot i\'m going to i ask politely if i can join. If he answers yes, or no it\'s ok. If he doesn\'t answer I either make him talk(Well, ya get pretty frustrated if ya can\'t have a mob for 10 rounds ) or simply leave to another place. There are still many polite and friendly people. Those who do not ask for permission and simply attack though it\'s my turn I try to bore out through by attacking faster then him, making me get all the kills.

Hm, just noticed i didn\'t read your story*knew i\'d forgot something.*

You come a long way with politeness and make new friends during that time, making your \"hunting\" experience even more pleasent.

[Araye]

The perceived \"ownership\" and implied requirement to ask to \"share\" is an unwritten courtacy the civilized \"arena gladiators\" recognize amounst themselves.

You should not rely on it as a rule or expect it.  Just like here on earth there are many things we do as a civilized society that aren\'t \"required by law\" but are generally expected to be followed.  Think driving for example...  you let someone in and they respond with a little \"wave\" of gratitude.  When you don\'t receive that \"wave\" you feel slighted right?  Same thing applies here.

The SHALlow, on the other hand, are selfish, greedy manipulators that take everything they can get.  Just like on earth, there are those that will sell you to the highest bidder, outsource your job so that they can make even more money, or force software retailers to exist on 1% margin while they (the software creators) enjoy a lush 90% margin.  None of these things are illegal (well maybe the selling you part), but they certainly aren\'t \"right\" either.  These so called \"thieves\" will get their just desserts in the end.  Especially if one educates him/herself and discovers the secrets these \"thieves\" use to take advantage of you.  Fight fire with fire.

Anyway, I digress and I disagree with Kary\'s solution (run away).  I suggest you fight for what you believe you \"own\" or the values you wish \"society\" to operate under.  If you need help, find like minded people to help you.  

Araye

[Kergen]

Kergen is famous for \"killstealing\" though what he does is by definition NOT killstealing.
Killstealing is by definition \"using magic as an exploit to steal a kill from another player.\"
Now Kergen, he uses nothing but his weapons or his hands,
in character he sometimes apologises to the rogue for the beatings he inflicts on him and he never stays at any one rogue for to long.
Now some players may not understand this
and I often get alot of OOC insults but I do stay in character and often send tells to them or explain in brackets  Kergen\'s
character and/or motives when all they really have to do is to read his description. Some have even accused me of harassment though it is not, I do not target any single character or group of players. Also, any player is free to challenge Kergen to a duel to send him away, he will not decline I assure you. If Kergen loses a duel to someone, he will not return to that particular spawn anytime soon.
as far as ping time, well in PvP, I do not whine and blame my ping on losing, why should spawns be any different?

[Zan]

In life total strangers can go to the same store and do their shopping without feeling the urge to beat eachother\'s skull in with the nearest canned food product available. That is because we live by an unwritten series of rules that tell us how to behave in public and towards others.

In multiplayer games there should be a similar thing, sadly because there are as good as no repercussions in the cyberworld a lot of people like to disregard all forms of politeness and etiquette. Like Karyuu said, this is a roleplaying game so the lack of etiquette can be a trait of the character you play.

I think there is an obvious difference between in character harassement and out of character harassement though. An example of the first would be the following situation:
A rather mean looking character appears out of nowhere and slays the tefusang you spent so much effort on tracking down. He gives you a triumphant grin and makes it clear with his swords that the spoils are his. When you voice your frustrations \"Hey man, I was hunting that creature. It\'s not nice to take my prey.\" The thug laughs loudly and replies \"Survival of the strongest, if you want it .. come and get it. I don\'t share, I take what I can and if you want it back I\'ll gladly take your life too.\"

While an example of an out of character harassment would be something like this:
You take your weapons out and get ready to land a good blow right on that rat\'s neck while some Kran rushes infront of you and starts fighting it instead. You don\'t mind company so you just say \"Hello there, want to hunt together?\" The Kran doesn\'t reply at all and quickly kills the next rat infront of you and the one after that. Since you would like to get some experience as well you ask him to share one last time. Again the Kran doesn\'t reply or if he does it will be something along the lines of \"u cant make me n00b!1!!\" as he goes on trying to kill the rats before you can.

I think the difference is obvious to anyone and for those who roleplay an evil or unpolite character, if people can\'t tell you\'re roleplaying you\'re probably not making use of your chat and tell boxes enough. Even silent evil characters can express themselves greatly through /me commands or if it needs be short ooc /tells.

Also I think it is only normal that when your character likes to harass people it also needs to be prepared to suffer the consequences by accepting duels from the ones being harassed. This also goes when you certainly know you are done for, because it is easy to pick fights with newer players when you\'re very strong and have little to fear but even the strongest can\'t take a detachment of city guards on and win.

[Araye]

Zan, I think you make great points.  I just assume we are all IC, no matter the type of rudeness (even though your example is clearly OOC).  I also agree with you that these \"evil\" characters should accept all duels.  But in the same light, maybe evil characters should come to expect that the \"good\" characters should accept all duels too.

For example, let\'s say I (a good character) have camped a rogue.  Now an evil character wants to take it from me.  One option would be to \"kill steal\" it.  Another would be to kill me and camp the rogue himself.  In the latter case, what if I never accept?  Maybe I should have to accept?

I\'ve made this complex situation very simple (black and white, GvsE), but maybe the duel question should be a simple warning...  \"BadGuy has challenged you....  press OK when ready\".

I\'m sure this is leading to another, well covered topic in a million other threads...  So I drop it here.

Araye

[Zan]

It\'s very obvious that duels will always remain an option and will never be forced upon anyone, simply part of what makes Planeshift Planeshift. However you do have a good point about evil characters being able to attack others. This is a very delicate issue though because most people dislike being sent to the Death Realm. Also not all characters are fighters.

Personally I will accept duels only when they are clearly for RP purposes but in those cases I will always accept them. That doesn\'t mean I\'ll fight though, depending on the character and the situation I can choose to run or dodge my opponents blows until he gets tired or lucky. The emphasis lies on making it very clear that you are roleplaying again. If you\'re both good roleplayers you should be able to do that without even needing to say anything ooc or break the atmosphere and tension once.