Fight for Freedom!!

[novacadian]

Attack the guard, get killed and escape to the DR.

Oh no, not yet another use of the DR Exit! 

- Nova

[Earowo]

Another issue I though of is that when a GM character is attackable it isn't like a duel where you can't be killed unless the other character intentionally decides to kill you. Fighting an attackable GM character is just like  attacking any other NPC. This could be a way for a criminal to escape or attempt to avoid jail. Attack the guard, get killed and escape to the DR.

This Is where player guards come in, and the devs could always make it to where fighting guards is same as dueling. dont under estimate the devs :O

[khoridor]

This could be a way for a criminal to escape or attempt to avoid jail. Attack the guard, get killed and escape to the DR.

Isn't it easier to "suicide" to escape?
(That's what Richard Burton used to do in Farmer's River World.)

[Sarva]

Freezing by a guard prevents the escape by suicide option since it forces the player to sit and they can't do anything until they are thawed.

[Sarras Volcae]

i said it's against the law for a plain citizen to hold another citizen against his/her will.

 This I believe is the Low Law you are referring too.
"XXIII. Members of Yliakum's intelligent races shall not be enslaved. Every citizen of Yliakum has equal rights under the laws of the Octarchy. Upon pain of true death, no Citizen of Yliakum shall enslave another; nor shall slaves be kept from among any sentient or semi-sentient creatures within the lands of the Octarchy."
enslave means to put into slavery. Arrest is nothing of the sort.
  
Also little used is this law.
Privileges of the People
"X. As a matter of the preservation of honor, and so that citizens might police their own disputes in most cases, the duel shall be permitted and the duelists shall take their own lives in their hands. No duel is to occur in the towns of Yliakum except within an area designated for such combat. If no such area is dedicated in a given town or city, duelists shall be required to leave the town or city to fight in the wilderness."

looks like i'll have to give that thing a read again. thanks. but if it's not even mentioned and slavery is a low law, temporarily killing a guard wouldn't mean permadeath, sarva.

Not necessarily true Earowo.  In the United States all people are suppose to have equal rights under the law but there are several states where the murder of a police officer in the line of duty qualifies as a special circumstances case which can earn you the death penalty.

i can't believe you would use the states of the US as an example lol... anyway, in those states you're referring to, murdering anyone is usually punishable by the death penalty. not just police officers. those police officers still have the same rights as other citizens anyway. it's not that they're police officers that their murders comes with death penalties, but that they're doing their duty. also, i wouldn't make comparisons like that. hydlaa is not america. should be obvious.

[Sarva]

XXIII. Members of Yliakum's intelligent races shall not be enslaved. Every citizen of Yliakum has equal rights under the laws of the Octarchy. Upon pain of true death, no Citizen of Yliakum shall enslave another; nor shall slaves be kept from among any sentient or semi-sentient creatures within the lands of the Octarchy.


Sarras What part of UPON PAIN OF TRUE DEATH, NO CITIZENOF YLIAKUM SHANN ENSLAVE ANOTHER did you miss? Yes Slavery is listed under the low crimes law but you can still get true death for enslaving another person.

Also I'd point to.


High Laws

XXXIII. Murder is a high crime. One shall never move to put another to death. Too many become lost in the Realm of Death. Anyone caught manufacturing or distributing poisons which cause the permanent death shall be cast into the crystal. Anyone who shall murder another, be they infant or elderly, shall face justice determined by the Octarch of the level on which the murder was committed.

Since the Octarch spends lots of time and money training the guards I don't think the Octarch wants people casually sending guards to the death realm. Also as it notes in the law you are not suppose to have any assurance of returning form the death realm when you are sent there.  Your attitude of  temporarily killing a guard  does not fit with settings since per settings any time anyone gets sent to the Death Realm there is a real chance they will never come back.

At least int he state I live in not all murder gets treated the same. Only first degree murder that includes  a special circumstance is eligible for the death penalty. One of the special circumstances is killing an on duty police officer, or fireman

[Sarras Volcae]

i'm blind

i don't have that attitude. idk what you're even talking about, and you're off topic. thus, i don't care. this is a waste of my time.

[Geoni]

Hey trolls, there is an all you can eat buffet here!

[Aiwendil]

Nah..too boring Geoni.

"Considering the low number of Game Masters available to patrol" one must think why that number is so low and why nobody wants to help PS out.

"The Development Team has considered and tried handing players some form of in-game responsibility, but that ended up failing." - Aww...I am so proud I had a lasting influence on PS.

"Though the current state of guard ability is indeed a problem, because I also see freezing and teleporting as a way of godmodding. GM does not stand for a "God-Modder". - No idea where you got this from...It was said several times in these forums that GMs can of course godmod as much as they want. New GMs are also taught that this is fine. And while I agree that a Game-Master needs this at times I just can't get why they should serve as examples of good roleplay...no GM can do that.

"1) A lot of players would love to duel a GM. I would see a lot of players causing problems just so they would get the chance to duel a GM in the city." - LOL...self made problem. You didn't want a RP server..now have to deal with the consequences. Too bad...could have been solved easily by moving all those players to EZPC.

"3) Even if the player beats a single guard and runs away where will the criminal run to? Remember there are guards on all the gates  that lead into or out of the city. If we are being IC then the guards at the gates, when they get notice of a problem, would shut the gates and control who gets in or out of the city. There are also other guards around the city that would be able to  capture the criminal. Remember you can't just treat NPC guards as statues what can't do anything." - Okay...I will resist the joke about NPC guards being as intelligent as real GMs here...but how the hell do you think it will work to tell players one time that the game mechanics are everything and whatever possible should be dealt with it and at another time the same players should act as if NPC guard weren't dumb.

"Again, this is where the idea of 'Mature' players, being guards, would come in, My guild personally would love this, since we do hunt criminals." - LOL...just...LOL. Ahm...thanks Geoni, this line alone made the thread readworthy

"Again, that doesnt mean you cant fight back, Good duelers would be able to handly more then one guard at a time, welll prepared ones would bring a few potions, not astack [would be unrealistic to have a stack]" - And people start asking me why I think there is no RP in PS. Okay..sorry, I guess I have to specify myself there to make this clear. I'm sure there is some RP going on in PS...real life people pretending to be pixel chars living within the limitations of their pixel world where drinking potions doesn't take any time and fighting is done by some running around and punching empty air until by luck one of those hits the enemy.

"They don't just freeze and toss people into jail with no provocation or warning.  Since I've been playing, I cannot think of a single person who has been jailed for a crime other than a violent attack or murder on someone else." - Of course not...GM guards in PS exist because players complained OOCly about too much crap going on in game. So instead finding a OOC solution the team went with a IC solution to a OOC problem which makes guards look even more useless as they are now, acknowledged as "We are lazy...we only act in case of a murder. That's the only way to get our attention."

"It would be awesome to have GMs playing some of the city characters, like Amidison, or Bevon, or Taulim... to allow the players to try and steal the keys, or cause trouble in another area of town to draw the guards away." - GMs do not interfere with player RPs. Want to play with them...go to one of their great events and get godmodded.

"There can be several ways to quickly alert the gate guards to shut down the gates and detail people trying to leave the city. For example there could be alert bells that are run by guards to put all the city guards on notice. True getting details to the guard might take some time but sending a signal to close the gates can be done very quickly." - Yep..this is very simple. In a game that has no public settings info you can always make something up to fit your current needs.

"This Is where player guards come in, and the devs could always make it to where fighting guards is same as dueling. dont under estimate the devs :O - I would never do that...I learned the hard way that there is always a way to make things worse.

And what do all the IC laws discussions in a OOC thread? No need to answer...I don't really want to know.

So Geoni..this thread is simply no challenge. It's boring, won't lead to anything and there is no need to troll it as the participants do that much better than any other troll could do.

After all...the discussion is useless. Whenever you get involved with a GM you are at their mercy...IC and OOC. That's how PS is (and not only this game). If you don't like this and would prefer to have it another way go and play another game.

Edit: typos

[Knightspark9]

for players who are good RP'ers we already have  players arresting players and brining them to jail. I can think of lots of cases where the bad guy criminal  has been brought into jail by other players. Of course this depends on the person running the bad guy being willing to RP the consequences   of their actions. The only reason to need game mechanic options for players to arrest other players is because the bad guy  isn't willing to RP the situation.

As for the subject of players being able to fight the guards a couple of things ot think about.

1) A lot of players would love to duel a GM. I would see a lot of players causing problems just so they would get the chance to duel a GM in the city. Maybe if we have several GMs online all the time this might be OK but since we currently are lucky to have two GMs online most of the time the GMs really have better use of their time than getting into duel after duel with players who have committed some just so they can duel a GM.

2) Just like modern day cops, if the guards think there is going to be trouble they are going to respond in force to a situation. This means brining in two or three guards at a time. Do you really think the other guards are going to stand around and watch their partner get into a fight with a criminal? That isn't a reasonable expectation. At the very least the other guards would be casting spells on the criminal to reduce his ability to fight such as dazzling lights, darkness, incredible weight or magic sleep.

3) Even if the player beats a single guard and runs away where will the criminal run to? Remember there are guards on all the gates  that lead into or out of the city. If we are being IC then the guards at the gates, when they get notice of a problem, would shut the gates and control who gets in or out of the city. There are also other guards around the city that would be able to  capture the criminal. Remember you can't just treat NPC guards as statues what can't do anything. NPC guards  have to be treated no different from GM guards if you are going to be playing properly.

1. It's called rping with dice; plus they can be busy fighting another person >.>

2. Distractions! Disguises! They're numberless for the options.

3. Distractions, Disguises, as said before; easy.

[Catlemur]

The new suggestions will bring massive group attacks on GMs,when the GM team will be big enaugh to handle it the new ideas can be applied.

[Sarras Volcae]

i'm pretty sure the suggestion wasn't for players to be able to attack guards at random

but, a hydlaa overrun with crime because players can fight back against the law... that would make for some great rp! 

[Illysia]

That more or less happened anyway due to low GM levels and I beg to differ on the awesome part. Marsueveus (sp?), Oralon, and Ahriman, and probably a few minor characters too all wrecking havok at the same time was just too much.

[Phantomboy86]

Heh, you might be seeing smatterings of me being a bit evil in time, or if you look now i do some spying, selling out, double dealing, ect.