Author Topic: clans  (Read 711 times)

Covetski

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clans
« on: June 29, 2004, 05:57:41 am »
I think there should be three hiearchies:

.........................................WORLD________
................................. ___/...|.......\\...........\\
......................... ___/...........|.........\\....tradesmen
................. ___/...................|...........\\..(builders, smithies)
................/...........................|...........\\
............clans.....................guilds......lone warriors
............/.....\\
........../.........\\
government.......\\
.....|.......|......../\\
guilds......|....../...guilds
.....\\.......|.....|....|
.......\\.....|.....|....|
.........\\...|.....|....|
..........lone warriors

the player chooses  which path he takes, and changes according to his/her actions

to chose a clan is to choose automatic pk(whenever that will be available) of rival clans

edit: sorry can\'t get this tree to stay in check :(

edit2: sorry if the dotts get in the way now, but it keeps the relative shape
« Last Edit: June 29, 2004, 06:07:15 am by Covetski »

josephoenix

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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2004, 06:08:22 am »
A search for \"clans\" reveals 37 topics. And thats in wishlist alone. o.O
Plus, we have guilds here. Guilds = Clans AFAIC.

Please stop posting so many duplicate \"wishes\"... :(

Also:
Quote

to chose a clan is to choose automatic pk(whenever that will be available) of rival clans


That\'s why we have guildwars. Do your research before asking for something, especially something that is already implemented (in the Crystal blue codebase at any rate)

josePhoenix
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Covetski

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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2004, 06:16:24 am »
I am truly sorry if I lose my temper but maybe I use the same topic name but the Idea behind it is diferent, in this topic guild =/= clan its is a big difference

smoak

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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2004, 04:14:10 pm »
covetski have you been to the wish list area? you made 3 new threads and they could are something that could go there instead.
Madness is merely an extension of sanity.

Kuiper7986

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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2004, 05:42:14 pm »
Guild:
A.) An association of persons of the same trade or pursuits, formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards.
B.) A similar association, as of merchants or artisans, in medieval times.

Clan:
2. A clique; a sect, society, or body of persons; esp., a body of persons united by some common interest or pursuit; -- sometimes used contemptuously.


Samething if you ask me, just maybe different by how deep the relationship is.
My name is NOT pronounced, \"Kway-per,\" it\'s pronounced \"Kye-per.\"

Zeraph

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« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2004, 06:04:42 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Zeraph
I think they want you to dig up an ancient thread & perform a resurrection ritual on it & post there?  :D

CB Characters: Zeph Waterfox & Zeraph Waterfox MB: Zph

dfryer

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« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2004, 06:31:24 pm »
This has been discussed before (although often OT in other threads) but I think the cause of frustration is that the \"guilds\" that exist seem more like tribal or clan entities than business/trade societies.  I think with the advent of jobs & trade, guilds might develop stronger \"business presence\".

I\'m not sure that the suggestion to separate \"clans\" and \"guilds\" will be effective though - ultimately it comes down to leaders who arise within the player base.  I think the hope is to have less competition-by-killing (since death isn\'t permanent anyway) and more competition-by-amassing-wealth, which seems more \"guildish\" to me anyway.

Jose, chill over the duplicate threads.  We\'re drowning in your duplicate posts over how threads are duplicated :P :)
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Covetski

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« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2004, 10:02:32 pm »
in this post clan= a group of guilds with a common goal
only a specific number should exist (sorta like alliance good, bad, not understood, etc...) and guilds are groups within that that have different PURPOSES.

maybe that clears something up??

josephoenix

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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2004, 10:18:17 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Covetski
in this post clan= a group of guilds with a common goal
only a specific number should exist (sorta like alliance good, bad, not understood, etc...) and guilds are groups within that that have different PURPOSES.

maybe that clears something up??

Yes, It does... I didn\'t really \"get\" your hiearchy diagram...

Zeraph... I wasn\'t necessarily implying that someone should post in those threads, but that he should read them and when he creates the thread he could not just start redefining it from the ground up (reinvent the wheel if you will...) but quote a description from the old thread and then elaborate on that.

dfryer... Okay, I\'ll cool down... Sorry, but this is what happens when I have nothing to do on a summer vacation and have a large supply of caffeinated drinks xD

josePhoenix

EDIT for Covetski\'s post below: You could edit your post instead, but I dunno whether people read back an entire two posts around here (Someone care to enlighten me as to the \"rule of thumb\" about edit vs. new post?)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2004, 10:24:59 pm by josephoenix »
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Covetski

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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2004, 10:18:59 pm »
btw the clans I\'m talking about MAY be best describes as Kingdoms also... ???

dfryer

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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2004, 10:53:09 pm »
It will be interesting to see what develops with regards to politics - either as a result of action from the settings team vs. action from the players themselves.  I think leaving it entirely in the hands of players is probably not the best move - the game needs some sort of structure to drive it.  I believe some unified government structure was outlined in the setting documents (at least for the peoples in the stalactite) but it\'s hard to tell whether that\'s just for one city, or as a general authority for the entire stalactite.  

We may get to a stage where we have warring \"city-states\" or \"clans\" - it would certainly make the world a dangerous (& profitable) place to live, and hopefully there will be a system where the GMs can add to the dynamic by implementing things (e.g. city NPCs) that the players alone couldn\'t.
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josephoenix

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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2004, 11:11:12 pm »
I think there could be a subclass of GMs called NPC scripters that would serve that purpose, writing quests that reflect the current events in the world. These people would have a restricted use of the GM command set (easy to implement, just subscribe some commands to a lower access level, From the looks of the code, there are 10 (unless I\'m wrong, which is possible) different admin levels... just don\'t subscribe any commands to level 0, lol. These scripters could have use of /warn (works akin to AIM warning, in that if your warning level gets above n, you are auto-muted for 10 minutes), /mute, and /kick. However, they couldn\'t use those commands on a GM with an admin level greater than theirs. They will have to be excellent spellers and creative people, and be able to learn the syntax necessary for getting an NPC to respond to player\'s conversations. People who are creative, yet can\'t grasp the concept of a scripting language, will be able to write books, to be approved by another subclass of GMs with the same abilities as these, but not allowed to script NPCs, and allowed to create items for the book and put them \"in circulation\" (read: in npc shops). But that\'s another idea ;)


josePhoenix
« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 12:26:24 am by josephoenix »
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Aeterus

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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2004, 07:33:56 pm »
It\'s nice to see someone pointed out some sane hierarchy.
(however it would be nice if you could elaborate on what the government doing inside the clan, and why they are 2 guild trees in a clan ... i thought that in your hierarchy a clan = government)

Clans are a tricky idea, you have noted that guilds also exist inside clans, but i think that suggests a rather large size of a clan.
for me, clans seem like an expansion of what we know from classic paper and dice games as \"parties\" (a group of friends with ussually no commmon jobclass as opposite to guilds), therefore i guess the only description that fits this *creature* is, a \"clan\". (which actually makes sense, unlike all the other games i know ^^)
While i could imagine the \"iron crest\" dwarven clan which resides in a certain region inside a mountain and has a group of blacksmiths and miners, it still won\'t come close to a real town guild, therefore the craftsmen in that example clan would just be freelancers.

So the questions is, to what extreme would the game push the players to, if a person could succeed easily as a lone craftsman (like in most games), the whole idea of guilds (not clans) would not really work.
and on the other hand, if players won\'t have any edge in large scale combats (for example castle sieges as i have seen in a few recent titles)  it won\'t encourage players to form huge clans.

To be honest, i\'ve never really understood the idea behind mmorpg\'s clans, apart from the pk battles, it seems to me that people just want to stick a tag and think they belong somewhere and they got a \"back\" of nasty friends.
If that\'s the case, i bet we\'ll see lotsa pointless clans instead of a fewer and larger (well made) ones.