Free Energy Devices

[zabeal]

I know enough about physics to know that such a device might be possible, but if you read the links they say they have been working on it for years, without any conclusive evidence of producing more energy then was consumed. They are really just saying it would be possible. I don\'t doubt that, it is really good to have a lot of people working on new ideas. There are a few things you have to be cautious about, many of those chemicals are dangerous, and if you did make something that produced a lot of energy it could be explosive. Not to metion if it relies on a rare chemical, someone might try to scam people by selling it at outragous prices, claiming it will produce more than that in energy, even tho it won\'t work quite so well.

[Foresteer]

Originally posted by Efflixi Aduro
WTF!!! Everything should be equipped with those things!
Damn government will probably ban them until we run out of gas in about 45 years though :evil:  Stupid government....
And yes its estimated that the world will run out of oil in about 45 years if we keep using it at this rate. I personally cant wait  Ill have a whole screw oil party and everything readyto go.

Yes they should :/

Yes the government is stupid

And do you actualy think our enviroment will last another 45 years at this rate? O.o

And the reason theres no \"conclusive proof\" is A.) well these things are hard to say definitively as of there very nature.. i mean the \"rules\" of electricity say that 100% is the \"max\" output and that it has to decay.. so the rules are gonna have to be rewritten and moderized (electricity and the rules about how it works haven\'t been changed since the 1930\'s and if almost all science from the time is wrong then wouldn\'t this need to be looked at again as well?) and

B.) Anybody whos not \"Everybody\" Doesn\'t want this to work.. but all the best laid scemes cant stop facts we just frankly dont need the oil/war mongers anymore.. and there is a lotta red (*cough*oilsupportingdestroyersofthepooreventhoughtheyrepoorbuthavebeen
taught/brainwashedthatitsgodswilltovoteforthesepeople*cough*) people out there.. kinda funny that the \"Reds\" of the past used thier power to keep the people poor and to make themselves the sole rich.. and that the american reds of today do the same thing *shrugs*

[Monketh]

[edit: Never mind, there is no way Foresteer is ever going to consider the possibility that even moderates could be correct.  Trying to convince someone like him to have more common sense in his politics isn\'t going to work and isn\'t worth my time.  In the mean time, get your politics out of this thread!]

[steuben]

here\'s the oddness. he claims that it isn\'t perpetual energy, energy from nothing. he claims that it produces five times the energy than is put in. now what is to stop you from take twenty percent of the out and channeling it back into the device. which would turn it into a perpetual energy device. in other words. this is a perpetual energy device, with the feedback loop cut.

and i just throught of something else... if he feeds back all the produced energy. then what you have is a rather efficent bomb.

[JellyWerker]

don\'t say bomb, it gives me ideas 8o I am an amateur pyrotechnician...

[Foresteer]

Originally posted by Monketh
[edit: Never mind, there is no way Foresteer is ever going to consider the possibility that even moderates could be correct.  Trying to convince someone like him to have more common sense in his politics isn\'t going to work and isn\'t worth my time.  In the mean time, get your politics out of this thread!]

way to go on trying but instead insulting and wow your wierd O.o i just said that the proven repulican/oil link wouldn\'t like a device that makes them lose power.. if you dont have enough common sense to notice these things then id rather not deal with you anyway :/

but then again your opinion is only yours has no bearing on me.. and i could frankly care less about it since you didnt even try.. way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\" oh well this forum still has a good percent of not what i call \" modern americanistic\"s

[Uyaem]

Originally posted by zabeal
I know enough about physics to know that such a device might be possible [...]

I do not mean to be insulting, but are you sure?

Originally posted by steuben
here\'s the oddness. he claims that it isn\'t perpetual energy, energy from nothing. he claims that it produces five times the energy than is put in. now what is to stop you from take twenty percent of the out and channeling it back into the device [...]

This is the argument to prove that the whole article is a hoax.

If, in an experiment, energy within a closed system appears out of nowhere, or multiplies, you haven\'t defined this \'closed system\' correctly.
The article is so crude it\'s not even worth discussing really.

A magnetized flywheel? So, in essence, a magnet. There are lots of rotating magnets out in the universe. The Earth is (a weak) one of them. Over the billions of years of it\'s existance, it should have accumulated enough of this free energy to blow up the universe.

If that\'s not enough, lets see what other people on other forums wrote about it:

Let\'s see:

\"Physicist Bruce DePalma has a 100 kilowatt generator, which he invented, sitting in his garage. It could power his whole house, but if he turns it on, the government may confiscate it.\"

It can\'t be produced because of a conspiracy. Strike 1.

\"His N machine, as it is called, is said to release the \"free energy\" latent in the space all around us.\"

Reference to \"free energy\". Strike 2.

\"The DePalma generator is essentially a simple magnetized flywheel, ie a magnetized cylindrical conductor rotating at high speed with the help of a motor. His astonishing claim is that the present versions of the N machine can generate up to five times more power than it consumes.\"

It uses magnets to violate a fundamental law of physics. Strike 3. And that\'s just the first few paragraphs.

If it is in fact not a deliberate hoax, it\'s at least BS.
In the 50s, people put up long wires in their gardens and connected light bulbs to them, which started to glow. Energy out of nowhere, score!
Only the radio station next door wasn\'t so happy about this, since the wires caught the EM-waves, giving free light to the station\'s neighbours but decreasing its range to but a few kilometers...
Needless to say that they put a quick end to it once they found out...

[Foresteer]

Well in as much as my understanding of physics takes me i believe they pick up on some sorta \"cosmic radio station\" taking the energy zipping around the multiverse and harnessing that.. but then again im no pysicist (and have stated i think its bull anyway).. I just build things XD

[leji]

to catch radio waves you need an antenna, not a rotating stuff :/ that would seem quite stupid, I asked two of my teachers who are phd specialized in electric motors and generators, and they never heard about that, they told me it was most surely BS, but let\'s try something:

if the energy is caught by the fact the magnet is rotating, use some of the energy produced to make the motor go faster and faster, then you have theorically infinite energy which is impossible as far as we know, of course we can be wrong about that, then I\'ll wait for someone to show me that stuff working (i searched the web but couldnt find any clear experiment results)

Pogo : you can have the bulbs glow without radio stations, just put the wire vertically, there is voltage in the air, lightning come from there.

and if you\'re looking for a good way of saving energy, use heat pumps (not sure if that\'s the english word I translated it literally from french) it provides up to 7 times the power you supply, but this works only for heating.

Edit : I found something that seemed like an \'experiment result\' here : http://depalma.pair.com/ but in the conclusion they doesnt talk about reactive energy comsuption, if all the guys who studied this phenomena were as crap as this guy no wonder they find this miraculous, but then asynchronous motors are miraculous too when they work as generators

[Monketh]

Originally posted by Foresteer
way to go on trying but instead insulting and wow your wierd O.o i just said that the proven repulican/oil link wouldn\'t like a device that makes them lose power.. if you dont have enough common sense to notice these things then id rather not deal with you anyway :/

but then again your opinion is only yours has no bearing on me.. and i could frankly care less about it since you didnt even try.. way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\" oh well this forum still has a good percent of not what i call \" modern americanistic\"s

What you call common sense may not be common sense.  Different people see the world differently and what you call common sense might be just what you want to hear.  What you call common sense is easily distorted.  I can call anything common sense, and so can you.

I had planned to argue you into submission because you\'re just spewing worthless anti-republican rhetoric.
But, I\'m going on vacation and don\'t want to have to think about what might be said in my absence.  It rather nags me to leave an argument unfinished.

\"if i cant win i wont try...\"  I would win, but like I said, it nags me to leave an argument unfinished and I\'m leaving on vacation.

way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\" oh well this forum still has a good percent of not what i call \" modern americanistic\"s

Your assumptions about americans disgust me.  You are guilty of intolerance and unjustified hate.  In other words, you are one of the vast population of \"Ignorant Liberals\" that exist to match the vast population of \"Ignorant Conservatives.\"  I\'ve seen them both, and both annoy me.

Don\'t expect a reply for a while.

Edit: And...

way to go acting like the average american \"if i cant win i wont try.. you are dumb i am smart so na-na-na-boo boo\"

if you dont have enough common sense to notice these things then id rather not deal with you anyway

[Foresteer]

I am american.. its not an \"assumtion\" its my day to day life throughout SEVERAL states are all americans bad? nope.. are most.. again no, they still can be intolorent, unwilling to change OR think outside the box... hence \"MODERN americanism\"

\"old\" americanism is probably the best thing to happen to the world has a whole.. refer to FDR\'s presidency (not truman though talk about riding the coat-tails of anothers sucess)

\"\"if i cant win i wont try...\" I would win, but like I said, it nags me to leave an argument unfinished and I\'m leaving on vacation. \"

\"I had planned to argue you into submission because you\'re just spewing worthless anti-republican rhetoric.\"

wow for never saying anything to me that abouts to more then \"OMG i r0xx0rz j00 suxx0rz\" you sure are confident O.o

\"Don\'t expect a reply for a while.\"

cool then maybe i can have a good disscussion in you absence

also your edit must have seemed cool when you wrote it but it actualy proves what i just said.. you used your original quote in EXACTLY the context that my quote countered.. in the buisness thats what we call \"Self-Ownage\"

Also funny how you never admited there could be a flaw in YOUR common sense.. i will openly admit 8 days a week my judment, mental state/health and sense could be full of holes XD

Also \"you are one of the vast population of \"Ignorant Liberals\"\" i am a libertarian who sometimes goes green.... thats a moderate dumbass :/ i loathe republicans and the right wing only some (ok quite a bit more but whatever) more then i hate the far left wing.. once i see the right fascism in smolders the left commy one will be next in ye \'ol tyme crosshairs (still if i had to pick i\'d pick a stalin over a hitler any day)

Anyhowdy i lost the link but i found something about wireless transmission of electricity and how tesla found some kinda \"electric feedback\" from that form of transmission that created more energy then he sent originaly, that sounds like the most plausible form of a free energy device i\'ve found so far

[Seytra]

Alright, let me state first that I don\'t believe in this stuff. Not that I wouldn\'t want to, but my problem with these alwaysis that these websites are always the same.

Claim:
1) I have this and that, and it produces free energy.
2) I am even usung it, it works flawlessly
3) There have been several people to reproduce it, it works for all
4) I\'m going to market it in one or two years
5) Sorry, I can\'t tell anyone because (govenment/patents/I died/whatever)

We see that this is just like the usual SPAM mail. I\'d be more than happy to test one of these things, under conditions that I impose, in order to exclude fraud. Obviously, I\'d be really surprised if anyone would actually allow me to do so.

Therefore, if you get this thing (or any other such machine) working, please do the following:

1) post detailed construction diagrams, assembly instructions and photos of the work in progress.
2) post them to me and others via PN, and only then on the net, just in case the conspiracy theory is true (After all, governments constantly prove that they can\'t be trusted).
3) produce a film of it working, at full load, for an extended duration, ensuring that all possible questionable circumstances are removed, though a movie can be easily manipulated.
4) produce as many copies of the device as possible, and get others to use them. That way, the worlsd would become a betterplace immediately and one will reach me eventually so thatI can see for myself.

I\'ve seen too much of this stuff on the net to be inclined to believe anything anymore without me actually using the thing for some days (not that this has ever happened. ). We all know how very easy it is to post junk on the net that sounds somewhat reasonable.

Let\'s face it: if the government would really conficate the thing if he turned it on, why wouldn\'t they confiscate it just to make sure, as they do with everything else? Additionally, with all that censorship going on on the internet, why wouldn\'t they have taken down that website if they indeed were conspiring?

[Xantam]

Originally posted by Pogopuschel

Originally posted by steuben
here\'s the oddness. he claims that it isn\'t perpetual energy, energy from nothing. he claims that it produces five times the energy than is put in. now what is to stop you from take twenty percent of the out and channeling it back into the device [...]

This is the argument to prove that the whole article is a hoax.

Don\'t be so sure.

If, in an experiment, energy within a closed system appears out of nowhere, or multiplies, you haven\'t defined this \'closed system\' correctly.

Not necessarily.

The article is so crude it\'s not even worth discussing really.

The article may not be, but the subject it brings up is.

If that\'s not enough, lets see what other people on other forums wrote about it:

Appeal to authority/popular opinion: Strike 1

Let\'s see:

\"Physicist Bruce DePalma has a 100 kilowatt generator, which he invented, sitting in his garage. It could power his whole house, but if he turns it on, the government may confiscate it.\"

It can\'t be produced because of a conspiracy. Strike 1.

Haven\'t read the article yet, but the claim that it would be confiscated has nothing to do with conspiracy. It\'s what would likely happen conspiracy or not. Use of straw man: Strike 2.

\"His N machine, as it is called, is said to release the \"free energy\" latent in the space all around us.\"

Reference to \"free energy\". Strike 2.

A reference to free energy is an alarm, but not a strike.

\"The DePalma generator is essentially a simple magnetized flywheel, ie a magnetized cylindrical conductor rotating at high speed with the help of a motor. His astonishing claim is that the present versions of the N machine can generate up to five times more power than it consumes.\"

It uses magnets to violate a fundamental law of physics. Strike 3. And that\'s just the first few paragraphs.

Which fundamental law is that? Nothing in the laws of nature precludes the creation of matter/energy so long as there is conservation.

If it is in fact not a deliberate hoax, it\'s at least BS.

Try looking up the Casimir effect, zero point energy, and quantum foam or Hawking radiation.
Based on what we know and some of the more advanced models in theoretical physics it is entirely possible to have such \"free energy.\" The trick is exploiting this knowledge with technology.

[steuben]

Quote:
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If, in an experiment, energy within a closed system appears out of nowhere, or multiplies, you haven\'t defined this \'closed system\' correctly.
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Not necessarily.

yes, necessarily, simply by the definition of closed system. a closed system is zero sum in terms of mass and energy in chemical terms, and mass-energy in relativitic terms. if you have energy or mass appearing it must have a source. and that source must be included to close the system.

actually it isn\'t possible to have \"free energy\". the debt must be paid. either with matter or energy. and there is an interest cost as well. i\'ll dig up the sci-am article that explains it. i\'ve got it somewhere in my library.

[Xantam]

yes, necessarily, simply by the definition of closed system. a closed system is zero sum in terms of mass and energy in chemical terms, and mass-energy in relativitic terms. if you have energy or mass appearing it must have a source. and that source must be included to close the system.

Even in a closed system there is the creation of matter from nothing (see quantum foam), though it is balanced (I think gravity is what balances it, IIRC).

actually it isn\'t possible to have \"free energy\". the debt must be paid. either with matter or energy. and there is an interest cost as well. i\'ll dig up the sci-am article that explains it. i\'ve got it somewhere in my library.

If it had to be repaid with matter or energy the quantum foam wouldn\'t exist, and there\'d be no Hawking radiation. Likely your Sciam article is outdated.