How much will I have to change my name?

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Karyuu
The rest of us? The rest of who, people who can\'t seem to understand rules and keep arguing for something they are not going to win anyway?

I understand the rules just fine. That is not the issue. The issue is about their aplication and better clarity for those starting out. IE the rest of us or those not to caught up in RP circles. I would think that is something that is very do-able and rather quick and easy.

Originally posted by Karyuu
What are we arguing for, again? I\'ve lost all track of this discussion. Are you arguing against the rules themselves, which have already been posted and are final, or arguing for their fine-tuning, or what?

No not against them. Perhaps a little fine tuning. But most definatly that they should be displayed somewhere a bit more prominently with clear explanation. Perhaps even in client at strategic areas.

Originally posted by Karyuu
I have very strong doubts that anyone here has such a giant colossal lack of creativity that they cannot think up a name suitable to Planeshift. They can look around the forums, they could peek inside the RP section, they can join IRC channels and ask the opinions of others (GMs included) - there is no such thing as an inability to think of a name. You can even get ideas from the generator, if you don\'t want to use it. I don\'t think there is any excuse whatsoever.

I don\'t think it is about a lack of creativity. Just about how that creativity will be interprited. And the desire for somethig a bit different and more persoanlly concrete.

Originally posted by Karyuu
If it was derived from medieval japan alone, I don\'t think it would\'ve been a problem. However, the anime really pushed it. I hope you don\'t think the decision to change it was unwarranted

The fact was that anime nowhere entered into the name. It was a romanji combination of two words not specific to any anime either popular or obscure. It was simply felt that it had something to do with some anime somewhere and thus was inapropriate. Honestly one of the words used is not refferenced much in japanese culture today outside of historical refferences or yes perhaps in a general refference in a manga or anime on the period as it is not actually a proper name in it\'s own right. I still question the decision to change it but I am adjusting otherwise.

[Teegress]

But Ms. Moderator you condone the ones who defend your position with their \"snidey\" remarks.  I do not think your action is fair.
I think this thread has gotten off track.  It started out about names, but our hard-liners get involved and start explaining what their idea of a perfect RP game is and how Plane Shift will be that game, and how n00bs will make their efforts to spoil the game and so forth.
Whether you want to admit it or not, things are and should be based on some realities.

What we have here is an example of a person with a possibly warped and overly idealistic view of what roleplaying should be. No offense intended. But honestly. Take a step back and remember here that this is a comunity that is accessable to a wider comunity of people than your traditional roleplaying clubs offer. It is avalible to anyone on the internet. And I bet among them you can find thousands of definitions about what roleplaying should be that will not agree with the one you hold. So who\'s wrong? Is anyone wrong? Wouldn\'t time and effort be better spend finding a happy medium? Where the hardcore RPers who dress up as their character on a regular basis, can co-exist with those of us that simply create characters as personifacations of aspects of ourselves?

\'nuff said

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Teegress
But Ms. Moderator you condone the ones who defend your position with their \"snidey\" remarks.  I do not think your action is fair.

Who has done that? On this thread? I don\'t see that, but obviously, judging from your other post in another thread, you are implying that I suck up or something, anyway, so whatever I say will not be good.

Originally posted by Teegress
I think this thread has gotten off track.  It started out about names, but our hard-liners get involved and start explaining what their idea of a perfect RP game is and how Plane Shift will be that game, and how n00bs will make their efforts to spoil the game and so forth.
Whether you want to admit it or not, things are and should be based on some realities.

Not to mention the hard-liners of the \"Anything goes!\" side explaining why they think RP is basically a definitionless thing and names are not important at all, and that naming rules in general are lame.

Originally posted by Teegress

What we have here is an example of a person with a possibly warped and overly idealistic view of what roleplaying should be. No offense intended. But honestly. Take a step back and remember here that this is a comunity that is accessable to a wider comunity of people than your traditional roleplaying clubs offer. It is avalible to anyone on the internet. And I bet among them you can find thousands of definitions about what roleplaying should be that will not agree with the one you hold. So who\'s wrong? Is anyone wrong?

That is the problem, aye. It is accessible to people who don\'t know about RP, and who don\'t give a carp about RP. If you are not willing to roleplay, then get the heck off any roleplaying game!

Wouldn\'t time and effort be better spend finding a happy medium? Where the hardcore RPers who dress up as their character on a regular basis, can co-exist with those of us that simply create characters as personifacations of aspects of ourselves?

I doubt anyone here dresses up as their chars IRL at all... I don\'t do it, anyway. I also don\'t confuse my RL with that VL of my char. However, creating a char as personification of aspects of yourself is not a good thing, either, but do whatever you like as long as you roleplay well and consistently.

By the way, if your name was \"Neo Neko\", then it is not just a little anime. It smells quite a lot of a cross between \"The Matrix\" and the anime genre.

The \"the desire for somethig a bit different and more persoanlly concrete\" itranslates to
\"something that doesn\'t fit within the general context and basically is an expression of personal, completely OOC, likings\". Not at all acceptable.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
So what you are saying is that if we don\'t want to use the random generator. But are still unsure whether anything we could cobble together on our own would be acceptable. Is that we should just steer clear of Planeshift all together. Kinda short sighted or myopic isn\'t it?

Precisely. If you are unwilling to have a name that will fit into the setting, then you obviously are not interested in good roleplay at all. Therefore, yes, you should steer clear of any roleplaying game, because they are not what you want.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Seriously for everyones sake stop thinking you are better than everyone else. Come down of your high horse and join the rest of us to build a better comunity/program.

I am already doing that by trying to explain what a good MMORPG is.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Again overly simplistic. And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members. Frankly majic in all the varrious forms it has appeared in human history easily covers parallels to those in Planeshift and alot more. Hell advanced technology is magic to someone who does not understand it. Personally I have always been a fan of archaeic universes.

So what is your point, other than the first sentence that is trying to insult me?

Originally posted by Neo Neko
And medieval? Medieval what? Brittan? Europe? Asia? Medieval covers alot of ground that would not I suspect be tollerated in the game ATM.

If you would have bothered to look at the screenshots, and the setting, you would have seen what the precise genre of PS is.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
But most definatly that they should be displayed somewhere a bit more prominently with clear explanation. Perhaps even in client at strategic areas.

I totally agree, and I already have submitted a feature request.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Seytra
I doubt anyone here dresses up as their chars IRL at all... I don\'t do it, anyway. I also don\'t confuse my RL with that VL of my char. However, creating a char as personification of aspects of yourself is not a good thing, either, but do whatever you like as long as you roleplay well and consistently.

I think you might be surprised. But the fact you don\'t is a good sign in my book. And what exactly is wrong with creating a character that personifies aspects of a person that for whatever reason may be downplayed or even repressed in day to day life?

Originally posted by Seytra
By the way, if your name was \"Neo Neko\", then it is not just a little anime. It smells quite a lot of a cross between \"The Matrix\" and the anime genre.

No that was not the character name. It appears as if someone is already using neo in game anyway. And perhaps this quote from earlier in the thread would be of interest to you.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Heck I bet right now there are all sorts of people who think they know what my nick means and are totally wrong. No I am not a big fan of the matrix. And I have never owned or are very fond of cats. To be quite sure the meaning is rather deep and obscure. But somehow unnacceptable none the less.

It has nothing to do with either one. But due to being tainted by a mediocre cultural icon an otherwise acceptable submission becomes unacceptable because people automatically assume the wrong meaning. Neo\'s name in the movie had a hidden meaning I doubt most people got. Still it does not make it much more than a half arsed attempt at a name. Since Neo is the new incarnation of \"the one\" his name is simply is \"new\". Original eh? Only to be cutsy they put it in a different language. Now that was creative.

Originally posted by Seytra
The \"the desire for somethig a bit different and more persoanlly concrete\" itranslates to
\"something that doesn\'t fit within the general context and basically is an expression of personal, completely OOC, likings\". Not at all acceptable

Only because some people deem it so. Not because it is.

Originally posted by Seytra
Precisely. If you are unwilling to have a name that will fit into the setting, then you obviously are not interested in good roleplay at all. Therefore, yes, you should steer clear of any roleplaying game, because they are not what you want.

What will fit is not totally clear. And again you are being quite short sighted and elitist here.

Originally posted by Seytra
I am already doing that by trying to explain what a good MMORPG is.

With an elitist I am better than you somehow attuitude? Indeed. Seems rather unconstructive or perhaps even destructive.

Originally posted by Seytra
So what is your point, other than the first sentence that is trying to insult me?

Really? There was not anything that insulting there at all. And if it was somehow insulting perhaps it is because you identify with it in a bad or painfull way. Anyhow I am not going to deconstruct your psyche to try and understand you on this. Whatever hidden issues you have they are yours on that point and not really fodder for the thread.

Originally posted by Seytra
If you would have bothered to look at the screenshots, and the setting, you would have seen what the precise genre of PS is.

No not really. Some of the houses on the square have a medeval england look. But then again there are buildings there that don\'t fit that theme at all. And in the next town over it looks like some sort of native american settlement. And what medival lore was heavy with humanoid cats, rock people, and what look like gargoyls that can wander around in daylight? To me the games setting seems alot more diverse than you are implying. But perhaps you are just putting your construction on it. Seeing it as what you preffer to see it as. When clearly to alot of us it is not as black and white as it is to you.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Neo Neko
It has nothing to do with either one. But due to being tainted by a mediocre cultural icon an otherwise acceptable submission becomes unacceptable because people automatically assume the wrong meaning.

Exactly. The actual meaning does not matter, the association does. Whether the association ireflects the actual / intended meaning is not important, the fact that there is one is.
What happens if you have a name that was constructed from a language you have invented, to mean \"smith\", when suddenly someone slaps together some letters, arriving at the same name and happens to include it in some movie that becomes famous? Exactly, the name is associated with the char in that movie, which makes it unusable, literally overnight.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
So what is your point, other than the first sentence that is trying to insult me?

Really? There was not anything that insulting there at all. And if it was somehow insulting perhaps it is because you identify with it in a bad or painfull way. Anyhow I am not going to deconstruct your psyche to try and understand you on this. Whatever hidden issues you have they are yours on that point and not really fodder for the thread.

Actually, I made a mistake in that I took the period for a comma. It was intended to comment on

And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members.

, which would have been the second sentence.
However, I find it quite interesting that you play with pseudo-psychological statements in order to take away credibility from me, divert attention from points I may have, and make me look bad.
Are you, perhaps, a politician IRL?

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
If you would have bothered to look at the screenshots, and the setting, you would have seen what the precise genre of PS is.

No not really. Some of the houses on the square have a medeval england look. But then again there are buildings there that don\'t fit that theme at all. And in the next town over it looks like some sort of native american settlement. And what medival lore was heavy with humanoid cats, rock people, and what look like gargoyls that can wander around in daylight? To me the games setting seems alot more diverse than you are implying. But perhaps you are just putting your construction on it. Seeing it as what you preffer to see it as. When clearly to alot of us it is not as black and white as it is to you.

This is precisely what I meant, though: the screenshots clearly show that PS is not exactly as any medieval time in any country in the real world! They also show that there are certain elements that are clearly fantasy. They furthermore show what kind of fantasy elements are there, and which are not.
This statement of yours has proven that I was perfectly correct in saying that looking at the screenshots and the settings gives a very clear understanding of the world of PS. There can be no misconception on major things, not even the us(ual|less) \"It says \"fantasy\" so anything goes!\" argument can be tried to be used anymore.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Seytra
Exactly. The actual meaning does not matter, the association does. Whether the association ireflects the actual / intended meaning is not important, the fact that there is one is.

An association from the real world that does not exist in the virtual world matters because? Seriously I doubt that anyone in the planeshift world has seen the matrix. I have not seen any theaters around. I concede that someone walking around using \"luke skywalker\" or \"ranma sautome\" is a bit blatant and not acceptable. But I would not see a problem with a mixture of the two. Ranma Skywalker or Luke Sautome anyone? I don\'t see a real problem. I have already discussed the problem inherant with trying to avoid constructing a name that could be construed as having some sort of unintended meaning. It\'s just not possible to do often or with any real consistancy. And on the off chance you suceed it is often not very interesting.

I think if you are spending time trying to construe a specific meaning to a name which has no real relation to said meaning. Well then to craft a response one might expect from you. You are wasting time that would be better spent roleplaying. And are therefore the type of people we don\'t want in game. No not really. Because honestly it takes all types. And more people of all types using planeshift will make it that much more interesting and compelling. Running off those you feel are not worthy etc will only ultimatly hurt you in some way. Not them.

Originally posted by Seytra
What happens if you have a name that was constructed from a language you have invented, to mean \"smith\", when suddenly someone slaps together some letters, arriving at the same name and happens to include it in some movie that becomes famous? Exactly, the name is associated with the char in that movie, which makes it unusable, literally overnight.

No not at all. What if I had it first? I am supposed to change it because someone somewhere else at some other time may have used it in a different context long after I came up with it? That is BS. But it would be a fun way to get revenge on you if I were a vengefull person. Simply take your in game name and create a character or persona that while being totally unrelated becomes famous/infamous. Either one will do. And it would not be especially hard. You would then be \"FORCED\" to change it. Then I would just wait till I found out your next one and cybersquat again adnauseum.

Originally posted by Seytra
Actually, I made a mistake in that I took the period for a comma. It was intended to comment on

And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members.

, which would have been the second sentence.

In what way is that offensive? I was only using your words for the most part. Oh wait....... I get it. You are reading more into it than is really there. Much like names. If that is all you have to be offended at in life count yourself lucky and admit to yourself you may have been sheltered.

Originally posted by Seytra
However, I find it quite interesting that you play with pseudo-psychological statements in order to take away credibility from me, divert attention from points I may have, and make me look bad.

When you get a point I\'ll let you know. Till then feel free to bable on and wax quixotic. You only make my part that much easier.

Originally posted by Seytra
Are you, perhaps, a politician IRL?

No. To be brutally honest I am a highly self/college educated, computer skilled, fishmonger. Funny how life works out. I work with a psychology major. Some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet. I really don\'t care for politics that much. As both republicans and democrats are both delusional and full of themselves. The only difference being that republicans are currently much more dangerous than democrats.

Originally posted by Seytra
This is precisely what I meant, though: the screenshots clearly show that PS is not exactly as any medieval time in any country in the real world! They also show that there are certain elements that are clearly fantasy. They furthermore show what kind of fantasy elements are there, and which are not.
This statement of yours has proven that I was perfectly correct in saying that looking at the screenshots and the settings gives a very clear understanding of the world of PS. There can be no misconception on major things, not even the us(ual|less) \"It says \"fantasy\" so anything goes!\" argument can be tried to be used anymore.

Ummmmmmmmmm incorect. It does nothing to prove your statement. At best all that goes to show is what it isn\'t. Not what it is. If we were to get deep into psycho-political babble what you have attempted is basically an example of circular reasoning IIRC. At any rate it is fun to watch you try and imply that because something is \"fantasy\" it must be limited. I think the general consensus of the concept of fantasy is that it is rather limitless or unlimited. Not as you imply.

Strict genera-ism is so passe and booring. Especially when you have the ability to draw inspiration from a community as wide as the internet. Fantasy is what you make of it. Leave yourself open and your fantasy will flourish and grow. Shut yourself off and it will wither and die.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Exactly. The actual meaning does not matter, the association does. Whether the association ireflects the actual / intended meaning is not important, the fact that there is one is.

An association from the real world that does not exist in the virtual world matters because? Seriously I doubt that anyone in the planeshift world has seen the matrix. I have not seen any theaters around. I concede that someone walking around using \"luke skywalker\" or \"ranma sautome\" is a bit blatant and not acceptable. But I would not see a problem with a mixture of the two. Ranma Skywalker or Luke Sautome anyone? I don\'t see a real problem.

I seriously hope you are joking! Because if not, you obviously have absolutely no clue what I am talking about.

You do realize that the association is performed by the player, not the character, yes? And as such, the player will have a hard time ignoring the dumb name. Thus, it makes the player lose immersion, the feeling of baing inside a real, consistent world (the game world), by being reminded of things outside that world. Thus, it does matter a whole lot. The sole presence of \"Skywalker\" in the name will surely trigger an association with a large percentage of PS players.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
 I have already discussed the problem inherant with trying to avoid constructing a name that could be construed as having some sort of unintended meaning. It\'s just not possible to do often or with any real consistancy. And on the off chance you suceed it is often not very interesting.

Yes, it may be hard to get a name without meaning in any language. However, this is absolutely no reason to not even try to cover the major languages. Furthermore, what you consider uninteresting may be interesting to someone else. Also, how interesting is your RL name, anyway? Why would a PS name have to be interesting, or even be allowed to be interesting? Your definition of \"interesting\" seems to be glued to what you like OOC-ly. Since OOC things have no playe in PS, your definition of \"interesting\" equates to \"inacceptable\" IMNSHO.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
I think if you are spending time trying to construe a specific meaning to a name which has no real relation to said meaning. Well then to craft a response one might expect from you. You are wasting time that would be better spent roleplaying. And are therefore the type of people we don\'t want in game.

Not at all. The name is the very first part of RPing. Thus, chosing a bad name is already bad RPing. The time used to create a name therefore is well spent.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
No not really. Because honestly it takes all types. And more people of all types using planeshift will make it that much more interesting and compelling. Running off those you feel are not worthy etc will only ultimatly hurt you in some way. Not them.

I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just trying to prevent fools who don\'t grasp what RPing takes from destroying PS for the real RPers.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
No not at all. What if I had it first? I am supposed to change it because someone somewhere else at some other time may have used it in a different context long after I came up with it? That is BS. But it would be a fun way to get revenge on you if I were a vengefull person. Simply take your in game name and create a character or persona that while being totally unrelated becomes famous/infamous. Either one will do. And it would not be especially hard. You would then be \"FORCED\" to change it. Then I would just wait till I found out your next one and cybersquat again adnauseum.

No offense, but I highly doubt that you will manage to produce something that can contain my name and still has any chance of getting famous or even well known. But should you manage, I indeed would change my name, because I do not want to be associated with anything besides the char I have created. I do expect the same off any RPer, yes.
That I had the name before doesn\'t matter, because it will not get rid of the association, i.e. the damage is done. The only thing I can do is to change my name.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Actually, I made a mistake in that I took the period for a comma. It was intended to comment on

And you are not going to have an easy time limiting this community to those ideal RP-circle knowing members.

, which would have been the second sentence.

In what way is that offensive? I was only using your words for the most part. Oh wait....... I get it. You are reading more into it than is really there. Much like names. If that is all you have to be offended at in life count yourself lucky and admit to yourself you may have been sheltered.

You might have used my words, but you most definitely have not used my meaning. The way you put it is meant to imply a negative meaning, and I am 100% sure you knew and intended that. It is common knowledge that people read more into words than is actually written. The text is always read within a context, and this context was highly negative regarding me and the \"ideal RP-circle\", thus it can safely be concluded that you are using it in a disrespectful way.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
However, I find it quite interesting that you play with pseudo-psychological statements in order to take away credibility from me, divert attention from points I may have, and make me look bad.

When you get a point I\'ll let you know. Till then feel free to bable on and wax quixotic. You only make my part that much easier.

ROFL! I do not need you to tell me when I have a point, TYVM.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Are you, perhaps, a politician IRL?

No. To be brutally honest I am a highly self/college educated, computer skilled, fishmonger. Funny how life works out. I work with a psychology major. Some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet. I really don\'t care for politics that much.

Well, AMOF, I don\'t actually care about what you do IRL. After all, you could be telling anything here, without risking to be found out. No use in bragging. But you might well wish to consult your \"psychology major, some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet\" on the names and immersion thing, I am sure that he / she will be able to tell you how association works and how it can break immersion. If he / she decides to do a scientific research paper on that subject I will gladly read it.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
As both republicans and democrats are both delusional and full of themselves. The only difference being that republicans are currently much more dangerous than democrats.

This applies to almost all politicians in any and all countries in the world.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
This is precisely what I meant, though: the screenshots clearly show that PS is not exactly as any medieval time in any country in the real world! They also show that there are certain elements that are clearly fantasy. They furthermore show what kind of fantasy elements are there, and which are not.
This statement of yours has proven that I was perfectly correct in saying that looking at the screenshots and the settings gives a very clear understanding of the world of PS. There can be no misconception on major things, not even the us(ual|less) \"It says \"fantasy\" so anything goes!\" argument can be tried to be used anymore.

Ummmmmmmmmm incorect. It does nothing to prove your statement. At best all that goes to show is what it isn\'t. Not what it is. If we were to get deep into psycho-political babble

Are we? I didn\'t notice that, but whatever.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
what you have attempted is basically an example of circular reasoning IIRC. At any rate it is fun to watch you try and imply that because something is \"fantasy\" it must be limited. I think the general consensus of the concept of fantasy is that it is rather limitless or unlimited. Not as you imply.

Hmm, you must have a real lot of fantasy to be able to get that meaning into my sentences.
I was not saying that \"fantasy\" means \"limiting\". In fact, I was saying that \"the established context and content of the environment (background and setting) define which subset of \"fantasy\" is appropriate for PS\", and that therefore \"the extremely vast meaning of \"fantasy\" is severely narrowed down in it\'s applicability to PS\".

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Strict genera-ism is so passe and booring. Especially when you have the ability to draw inspiration from a community as wide as the internet. Fantasy is what you make of it. Leave yourself open and your fantasy will flourish and grow. Shut yourself off and it will wither and die.

Ignoring the very emotional lines of \"wisdom\" at the end, it is my impression that you are trying to use the extremely overused \"it\'s fantasy so anything goes\" argument in order to justify your unwillingness to accept the limitations that have been set by the PS team.
You have already indicated that you have never played any PnP RPG, and that might be your problem. If you had, you would know that, while they all are \"fantasy\", they still have a very limited subset of what might be thought up. The reason is simple: they are trying to form a believable and consistent virtual environment, just like PS. Therefore, while you could think of flying microwave ovens that talk, they are not appropriate in a serious setting, not even a sci-fi one. Therefore, there are and never will be lightsabers or doom stars in PS.

as I said, the \"fantasy\" argument becomes useless the very instant the background and settings have been defined, because from that point onwards anyone who connects to the created reality will have to accept it\'s limitations. Not doing so is not creativity or fantasy, it is simply unwillingness to adhere to given rules and inability to act within a defined context, proving the person not a brilliant artist, but an utter fool.

[Teegress]

Originally posted by Seytra
That I had the name before doesn\'t matter, because it will not get rid of the association, i.e. the damage is done. The only thing I can do is to change my name.

And you are going to be happy about it?  I do not believe you would do it as easy as you make out here.

Originally posted by Seytra
Ignoring the very emotional lines of \"wisdom\" at the end, it is my impression that you are trying to use the extremely overused \"it\'s fantasy so anything goes\" argument in order to justify your unwillingness to accept the limitations that have been set by the PS team.

You mean, the limitations set by the PS team as seen by you.  
Which is back to the root of the name problem.  Perceptions.  And some of these perceptions are people the \"PS team\" has picked up along the way.  I\'m sure the original people did not have everything etched in stone when they started.  They should have known things have to adjust.  Just look at the original drawings of the characters; very different in the current build.
If this game is going to be open to the people of the world, and the artists and developers are doing this, \"in the name of heaven,\" then RPers should not have to conform to a rigid set of rules developed by a few self-glorified, and calling themselves ideal.  If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so.  Kick us all out.   But do not claim yourselves as part of the \"open source\" community.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Teegress
If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so.  Kick us all out.

:rolleyes: Will do.

Originally posted by Teegress
But do not claim yourselves as part of the \"open source\" community.

I don\'t see how the term \"open source\" has anything to do with naming rules. I was under the impression that it referred to any program whose source code is made available for use or modification as developers see fit? Maybe you and your cronies can explain this to me?


To state that fantasy should not have any limits is hogwash, frankly. There will always be limits, because a limitless world will not make sense. Names must fit the setting, as Seytra pointed out too many times to count, and names must not have too many obvious OOC connotations. How is this even a problem?

I\'m also rather amused at how only two players are complaining at the moment. Two players, and my my, these strict rules will be the death of Planeshift completely.

[Darkblade]

Originally posted by Teegress
You mean, the limitations set by the PS team as seen by you.  
Which is back to the root of the name problem.  Perceptions.  And some of these perceptions are people the \"PS team\" has picked up along the way.  I\'m sure the original people did not have everything etched in stone when they started.  They should have known things have to adjust.  Just look at the original drawings of the characters; very different in the current build.
If this game is going to be open to the people of the world, and the artists and developers are doing this, \"in the name of heaven,\" then RPers should not have to conform to a rigid set of rules developed by a few self-glorified, and calling themselves ideal.  If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so.  Kick us all out.   But do not claim yourselves as part of the \"open source\" community.

*Ahem*
Guildeline:  a line by which one is guided : as
A: a cord or rope to aid a passer over a difficult point or to permit retracing a course
B : an indication or outline of policy or conduct

I\'m not sure where you got the idea that the rules about names are set in stone, but I\'m sure that is not the case.
Planeshift is comprised of Roleplaying as that is the main part of the game, which I believe we agree on.

As for conforming to this environment, yes, you\'ll have to accept that.
As for this little part here: \"If you and your cronies want your own environment, then make it so. Kick us all out.\"
I\'m in disagreement.
Planeshift was not created by the Rpers, yet, when we decide to play by it, we play by the context of the world set by the developers, because we chose to, by going into this world.

That applies to names too.


If you\'re disappointed about this context, nothing is keeping you here, surely?

The PS team, have only given guildlines towards names. Now, I know there is a fine line between \"acceptable\" and \"non-acceptable\" but we\'re all human beings IRL aren\'t we?
And, I\'d say that is part of the problem in general, except we can\'t help about being who we are.

To state that fantasy should not have any limits is hogwash, frankly. There will always be limits, because a limitless world will not make sense. Names must fit the setting, as Seytra pointed out too many times to count, and names must not have too many obvious OOC connotations. How is this even a problem?

Agreed.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Teegress

Originally posted by Seytra
That I had the name before doesn\'t matter, because it will not get rid of the association, i.e. the damage is done. The only thing I can do is to change my name.

And you are going to be happy about it?  I do not believe you would do it as easy as you make out here.

Did I say I would be happy about it? No, I didn\'t, because I wouldn\'t. However, yes, I would change my name. The fact that some people know I had the name before doesn\'t mean that others know. Even if, everyone would still be reminded of the other association, thus the name must be changed.
Apart from that, I do not want to look like a cheap rip-off or imaginationless fool who uses a name from somewhere else. Because this is the way one looks to people.

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Seytra
I seriously hope you are joking! Because if not, you obviously have absolutely no clue what I am talking about.

No I am seriously not joking. And yet I fully understand what you are talking about. I think the lack of understanding does not originate on my end.

Originally posted by Seytra
You do realize that the association is performed by the player, not the character, yes?

No. Not strictly. The association to the chosen name I had was not implied or intended by me. Me being the player. It was some other character that assumed that it must have a simple/popular meaning. When it didn\'t. It was a concatonation of two non english words which even in their english forms would not be strictly unnacceptable in game.

Originally posted by Seytra
And as such, the player will have a hard time ignoring the dumb name. Thus, it makes the player lose immersion, the feeling of baing inside a real, consistent world (the game world), by being reminded of things outside that world. Thus, it does matter a whole lot. The sole presence of \"Skywalker\" in the name will surely trigger an association with a large percentage of PS players.

If they are that boored that they have ample time to not only make up non-existant external associations to names, but also get miffed about it. Something tells me they are not all that serious about roleplaying. Seriously. I am with you when someone uses a non-abstract famous name verbatum. Where you loose me and others is with this obsession of finding non-existant inapropriate external name associations. I think you are trying to hard to be offended.

Originally posted by Seytra
Yes, it may be hard to get a name without meaning in any language. However, this is absolutely no reason to not even try to cover the major languages.

So you mean we have to put in some serious linguistic R&D before we join to play? Wait are we getting paid for this? Major languages? Which ones? What about most of the world who does well to know one? There are people who live not that far from myself who butcher the english language awfully. And they don\'t know any other language. I mean it is one thing for an immigrant to butcher it after speaking another language all their lives. Seriously how many languages do you think most people know? I am fairly educated and I really only considder myself to know one. Outside of programming languages. The sum of all my other spoken language knowledge could barely form a few cogent pharases outside of hello. Though many times I can pick up the general meaning of a few phrases in german, japanese, spanish, french, and even icelandic that isn\'t the same thing as really speaking/knowing them.

Originally posted by Seytra
Furthermore, what you consider uninteresting may be interesting to someone else.

I am willing to aknowledge that. Here is the issue you are missing. It is going to be \"my\" name. \"Not\" theirs.

Originally posted by Seytra
Also, how interesting is your RL name, anyway?

Actually to me it is very. At the basic level it \"is\" me. On a deper one it speaks to part of my history and heritige. And frankly if I had real issues with my name I could change it to anything I want.

Originally posted by Seytra
Why would a PS name have to be interesting, or even be allowed to be interesting?

Why should it not be interesting? Seriously. What rule is there that says it can\'t/shouldn\'t be? Honestly if you were right and we really wanted to solve this issue we would create a language composed of unique unpronounceable ideograps. And then limit people to composing their names from that. Simple. Easy. Fair. No fuss no muss. No one can get offended in uncalled for manners.

Originally posted by Seytra
Your definition of \"interesting\" seems to be glued to what you like OOC-ly. Since OOC things have no playe in PS,

ichi: Not all of us are blessed with multiple personalities. There is generally bound to be some overlap.

ni: There is no rule that says \"OOC\" things have no place in PS. Simply that \"some\" things don\'t.

san: It is people like you who behave like rule nazis that are really the problem. No that is not sufficient to invoke Goodwin\'s law.

Originally posted by Seytra
your definition of \"interesting\" equates to \"inacceptable\" IMNSHO.

That\'s the real problem. You are not humble in any way. Your holier than thou attitude gets in the way of any possible point that you might someday hope to make. It\'s your way or the highway. And what\'s really sad about all of this is that you\'ve no reason to be that way. You are clearly taking major liberties with your interpritation of the rules. And you are not in any real position to \"set\" the rules. No more so than any of the rest of us.

Originally posted by Seytra
Not at all. The name is the very first part of RPing. Thus, chosing a bad name is already bad RPing.

That is the whole point. There is nothing \"bad\" about the names in question. Other than you \"feel\" they were bad. Which is funny considdering you don\'t even know what they were.

Originally posted by Seytra
The time used to create a name therefore is well spent.

I agree. Which is why it is a problem when those like yourself act as you do after someone spends all that time. Just because you \"feel\" it means something it does not.

Originally posted by Seytra
I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just trying to prevent fools who don\'t grasp what RPing takes from destroying PS for the real RPers.

And it\'s just those kind of hurtfull words I am talking about. You act as if you are some sort of authority. You are not. Then to add insult to injury you insist on name calling in conjunction with blanket accusations/assumptions. In using the word \"fool\" did you even bother to evaluate your position? Quite frankly if you have this same attitude in game I think you are far more responsible for ruining the game than any of your so called fools. The difference being that you not only ruin it for real RPers but for everyone  in general.

No offense, but I highly doubt that you will manage to produce something that can contain my name and still has any chance of getting famous or even well known.[/QUOTE]

There are different degrees of fame you gloss over. Anything is equally bad to you. You seriously missunderestimate my abilities legal and illegal. And all the creative ways a creative person like myself could use them. I am rather internet adept.

Originally posted by Seytra
But should you manage, I indeed would change my name, because I do not want to be associated with anything besides the char I have created. I do expect the same off any RPer, yes.

Good for you. You have at least the integrity and courage to stand against a non-threat. And thank your lucky stars that you will not have to worry as far as I am concerned about prooving you a hypocrit.

Originally posted by Seytra
You might have used my words, but you most definitely have not used my meaning. The way you put it is meant to imply a negative meaning, and I am 100% sure you knew and intended that.

Negative? There is nothing there that couldn\'t have been said in a neautral way as it was intended.

Originally posted by Seytra
It is common knowledge that people read more into words than is actually written. The text is always read within a context, and this context was highly negative regarding me and the \"ideal RP-circle\", thus it can safely be concluded that you are using it in a disrespectful way.

No it was a hypothetical way. Because your RP circle is not my circle it is safe to say that one or both of us has idyllic visions of what such a circle should be. I can\'t use those words in a negative fashion which would totally exclude myself. Now can I?

Originally posted by Seytra
ROFL! I do not need you to tell me when I have a point, TYVM.

The point on your head does not count. \"YOU MAY NOW BE MILDLY OFFENDED\"

Originally posted by Seytra
Well, AMOF, I don\'t actually care about what you do IRL.

Why ask then? Someone might think you were being disingenuous.

Originally posted by Seytra
After all, you could be telling anything here, without risking to be found out. No use in bragging. But you might well wish to consult your \"psychology major, some of the most highly educated fishmongers on the planet\" on the names and immersion thing, I am sure that he / she will be able to tell you how association works and how it can break immersion. If he / she decides to do a scientific research paper on that subject I will gladly read it.

First I was not aware that being a fishmonger was something to brag about. Because seriously you have to be college educated to work at mcdonalds these days. Second we did actually discuss this. He was rather of the oppinion that you might be the problem. Take it for whatever it is worth.

Originally posted by Seytra
Hmm, you must have a real lot of fantasy to be able to get that meaning into my sentences.
I was not saying that \"fantasy\" means \"limiting\". In fact, I was saying that \"the established context and content of the environment (background and setting) define which subset of \"fantasy\" is appropriate for PS\", and that therefore \"the extremely vast meaning of \"fantasy\" is severely narrowed down in it\'s applicability to PS\".

No the meaning was clearly intended by your statements. You imply that the content of limited screenshots limit the scope of the setting and background of an \"incomplete\" game.

Originally posted by Seytra
Ignoring the very emotional lines of \"wisdom\" at the end, it is my impression that you are trying to use the extremely overused \"it\'s fantasy so anything goes\" argument in order to justify your unwillingness to accept the limitations that have been set by the PS team.

You are not the PS team. Neither are the GMs. They are appointed representatives. I could someday even become a GM. And I am more than willing to accept the limitations set by the PS devs etc. I accepted a false assumption about my chosen moniker on the part of a GM rather than argue about it at that point. I felt it would be far more constructive to debate the topic somewhere else. Somewhere more apropriate. And here we are. But why are you here?

Originally posted by Seytra
You have already indicated that you have never played any PnP RPG, and that might be your problem.

Excuse me? When was PS ever a PnP RPG? Ok I admit I did toy with using my wacom pad and stylus with the game but it is hardly a pen and paper.

Originally posted by Seytra
If you had, you would know that, while they all are \"fantasy\", they still have a very limited subset of what might be thought up.

Untill I see official corroberation of that I am sorry I can\'t accept it.

Originally posted by Seytra
The reason is simple: they are trying to form a believable and consistent virtual environment, just like PS.

A believable fantasy? Almost an oxymoron. Yet it is what you imply. And consistant? I believe that is up to the official team to decide. Not you. You are as ill equiped to decide that as the rest of us are seing the incomplete nature of things.

Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, while you could think of flying microwave ovens that talk, they are not appropriate in a serious setting, not even a sci-fi one.

LOL. I have seen similar and stranger things in sci-fi settings. For peets sake the transformers had vehicle and animal forms. It is not out of the question to consider that there were some with household appliance forms.

Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, there are and never will be lightsabers or doom stars in PS.

First no one was advocating either. Second it is a \"deathstar\" (TM) .

[Neo Neko]

Originally posted by Seytra
Did I say I would be happy about it? No, I didn\'t, because I wouldn\'t. However, yes, I would change my name. The fact that some people know I had the name before doesn\'t mean that others know. Even if, everyone would still be reminded of the other association, thus the name must be changed.
Apart from that, I do not want to look like a cheap rip-off or imaginationless fool who uses a name from somewhere else. Because this is the way one looks to people.

People being you and not any general representation of a grouping of reasonable people.

1. The game is incomplete. By basically everyones admission. Which means things are subject to change. Including the possibility of rules as well as everything else. Don\'t try jumping on your high horse in mid gallop

2. Chances are the devs get more out of people playing the game than most people get playing it. Which means that the more people who play it the more the devs are likely to get out of it. So it is in their interest to attract as many users as possible. Which would ultimatly make it in your intrest as well.

3. Seeing as the whole thing is beta and there will be a character \"wipe\" soon where exactly is your axe to grind in all this. If this ever gets to the point where clarrifying information contrary to your personal beliefs is planned to be added to the official guides. And you can indeed phrase it in a non-childish etc way you are more than welcome to present your point of view. Otherwise I fail to see what you have constructive to offer.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Neo Neko
1. The game is incomplete. By basically everyones admission. Which means things are subject to change. Including the possibility of rules as well as everything else. Don\'t try jumping on your high horse in mid gallop

The naming rules will not change, that I can say with near certainty. There will be no Ranma Skywalkers in Planeshift. They may be fine-tuned and added to so that problems like these will not arise (i.e., the rules will be more detailed with time), but your proposal of an \"open\" fantasy will not take place, because that is not what Planeshift is. Your immediate response, of course: Who the hell am I to stay what Planeshift is or isn\'t. Yet some have been here a \"little\" longer and have become aware of the way Planeshift works. And this is how it works. As it has been stated before - uncomfortable with the rules? Feel free to spend your time elsewhere. This has been told many times to many different people, and all without any problems or regret.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
2. Chances are the devs get more out of people playing the game than most people get playing it. Which means that the more people who play it the more the devs are likely to get out of it. So it is in their interest to attract as many users as possible. Which would ultimatly make it in your intrest as well.

This does not mean that it is in the interest of the devs (and the Planeshift world) to attract all types of users. Hack\'n\'slash users will not be welcome, nonRP users will not be welcome, etc., etc.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
3. Seeing as the whole thing is beta and there will be a character \"wipe\" soon where exactly is your axe to grind in all this. If this ever gets to the point where clarrifying information contrary to your personal beliefs is planned to be added to the official guides.

Pre-alpha, actually. There will indeed be a character wipe \"soon,\" and by that time hopefully the rules will be made clearer within the client itself. I, personally, don\'t see the point of you arguing in all this :)

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
You do realize that the association is performed by the player, not the character, yes?

No. Not strictly. The association to the chosen name I had was not implied or intended by me. Me being the player. It was some other character that assumed that it must have a simple/popular meaning. When it didn\'t. It was a concatonation of two non english words which even in their english forms would not be strictly unnacceptable in game.

You are deliberately misunderstanding everything I say. Isn\'t it obvious that I did not refer to the player who chose the unfitting name? Instead I obviously referred to the player seeing the name. Furthermore, your wording of these things

Me being the player. It was some other character that assumed

makes it painfully obvious that you don\'t even grasp the conceptual distinction between \"player\" and \"character\". With that established, there is absolutely no point in arguing any further, because this understanding you have proven yourself to be lacking is fundamental for RP.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Yes, it may be hard to get a name without meaning in any language. However, this is absolutely no reason to not even try to cover the major languages.

So you mean we have to put in some serious linguistic R&D before we join to play? Wait are we getting paid for this? Major languages? Which ones? (...)

Well, isn\'t it funny that you actually put in linguistic knowledge to arrive at the name? Isn\'t it true that you made the name up of words you knew the meaning of in another language, and that you chose them for that exact reason?
All I am asking is that you do exactly the opposite: avoid the words you know that have a meaning in the languages you know. Simple, no?

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Furthermore, what you consider uninteresting may be interesting to someone else.

I am willing to aknowledge that. Here is the issue you are missing. It is going to be \"my\" name. \"Not\" theirs.

The point you are missing is that everyone will have to see your name, a lot more often than you. Therefore, your name affects everyone else more than it does you.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Also, how interesting is your RL name, anyway?

Actually to me it is very. At the basic level it \"is\" me. On a deper one it speaks to part of my history and heritige.

Hmm, I am actually a but surprised by that. I consider RL names to be random at best. Sure, some name might sound more pleasant to me than others, but frankly, I don\'t give a carp about heritage. After all, it isn\'t as if you or me had ever done anything to make our heritage the way it is. We weren\'t even there, so how can we identify with any of it, or even be proud / ashamed of it?

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Your definition of \"interesting\" seems to be glued to what you like OOC-ly. Since OOC things have no playe in PS,

ichi: Not all of us are blessed with multiple personalities. There is generally bound to be some overlap.

It desn\'t take multiple personalities to be able to abstract and differentiate character and player. Yes, there will be overlap, but not in having OOC things in names.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
ni: There is no rule that says \"OOC\" things have no place in PS. Simply that \"some\" things don\'t.

And conveniently the things that you want just happen to not be the \"some\", yes? Frankly, you\'re on thin ice there.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
san: It is people like you who behave like rule nazis that are really the problem. No that is not sufficient to invoke Goodwin\'s law.

Yeah, I have been called that before. You might even do a search for \"name nazi\", I\'m sure you will dig up my response to that.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
your definition of \"interesting\" equates to \"inacceptable\" IMNSHO.

That\'s the real problem. You are not humble in any way.

No, I am not, and have clearly said so. IMNSHO stands for \"In My Not So Humble Opinion\".

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Your holier than thou attitude gets in the way of any possible point that you might someday hope to make. It\'s your way or the highway. And what\'s really sad about all of this is that you\'ve no reason to be that way. You are clearly taking major liberties with your interpritation of the rules.

Indeed I am. I am taking away the liberties that are meant to be taken away. Rules are there for nothing other than taking away liberties.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
And you are not in any real position to \"set\" the rules. No more so than any of the rest of us.

Indeed I am not, and you can consider yourself lucky about that. Because if I were, the rules would be way more strict. It is no secret that I consider the rules, and especially the level of enforcement to be far too lax.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Not at all. The name is the very first part of RPing. Thus, chosing a bad name is already bad RPing.

That is the whole point. There is nothing \"bad\" about the names in question. Other than you \"feel\" they were bad. Which is funny considdering you don\'t even know what they were.

What the original name was is of no importance. We are discussing not a particular name, but improper names in general. Otherwise, you would have had to state what your name was in the beginning.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
The time used to create a name therefore is well spent.

I agree. Which is why it is a problem when those like yourself act as you do after someone spends all that time. Just because you \"feel\" it means something it does not.

How much time did you spend, anyway? I find it rather easy to copy a name off somewhere, or concatenate some words.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
I am not trying to hurt anyone. I am just trying to prevent fools who don\'t grasp what RPing takes from destroying PS for the real RPers.

And it\'s just those kind of hurtfull words I am talking about. You act as if you are some sort of authority. You are not.

Well observed. I am not, nor do I think / claim I am. Still, I do think that I have a lot more base than you. If anything, the fact that your original name has been changed, even by the lax rules and enforecemnt we are having here, shows that my interpretation of the rules is a lot closer to the intended one than is yours.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Then to add insult to injury you insist on name calling in conjunction with blanket accusations/assumptions. In using the word \"fool\" did you even bother to evaluate your position? Quite frankly if you have this same attitude in game I think you are far more responsible for ruining the game than any of your so called fools.

No, in PS, I prefer to roleplay, which is what PS is about, actually.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Neo Seytra
No offense, but I highly doubt that you will manage to produce something that can contain my name and still has any chance of getting famous or even well known.

There are different degrees of fame you gloss over. Anything is equally bad to you. You seriously missunderestimate my abilities legal and illegal.

Hmm, maybe I do, but it doesn\'t seem like it, actually.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
And all the creative ways a creative person like myself could use them. I am rather internet adept.

If \"Neo Neko\" is your level of creativity, I think noone has anything to fear off you.
As for you being internet adept... well, let\'s just say you might not be the only one, considering that this is the BBS of a game in very early development.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
ROFL! I do not need you to tell me when I have a point, TYVM.

The point on your head does not count. \"YOU MAY NOW BE MILDLY OFFENDED\"

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Well, AMOF, I don\'t actually care about what you do IRL.

Why ask then? Someone might think you were being disingenuous.

It was a rhetorical question, obviously. :rolleyes: I was trying to imply that your way of arguing had a lot of similarity with the mud-slinging politicians tend to do in order to denounce their opponent without having to argue on the basis of their points, for the simple reason that they don\'t have anything to counter them in the first place, thus resorting to making them unpopular.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Hmm, you must have a real lot of fantasy to be able to get that meaning into my sentences.
I was not saying that \"fantasy\" means \"limiting\". In fact, I was saying that \"the established context and content of the environment (background and setting) define which subset of \"fantasy\" is appropriate for PS\", and that therefore \"the extremely vast meaning of \"fantasy\" is severely narrowed down in it\'s applicability to PS\".

No the meaning was clearly intended by your statements. You imply that the content of limited screenshots limit the scope of the setting and background of an \"incomplete\" game.

Absolutely they do, but, as I said, in conjunction with the background and setting. They limit the scope of the subset of \"fantasy\" that is applicable to the game, not the scope of \"fantasy\" in general. To be as clear as it gets: they limit the scope of what you are allowed to create within the game.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
You are not the PS team. Neither are the GMs. They are appointed representatives.

Did I say anthing else? No, I didn\'t. Yet, the PS team has set the rules which the GMs are enforcing.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
I accepted a false assumption about my chosen moniker on the part of a GM rather than argue about it at that point. I felt it would be far more constructive to debate the topic somewhere else. Somewhere more apropriate. And here we are. But why are you here?

I am here to explain to you why it does not matter if the assumption of the GM was true or false.
(I am using \"Bill Gates\" as example to make things more clear)
Your argument is this:
\"I never heard of Bill Gates, or maybe I have, but I simply like the names \"Bill\" and \"Gates\", so that\'s my name ingame. Therefore, since I did not chose it due to that Microsoft guy, my name is acceptable.\"

My argument is this:
\"Even if you and maybe a select few other players know that you did not chose the name due to the Microsoft guy, everyone else will not be able to know that, and thus will assume that you did, and even if not, be reminded of him. This being reminded means that they are dragged out of the PS world, if even ever so slightly. Therefore, it hurts other people\'s immersion and thus is an unacceptable name.\"

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
You have already indicated that you have never played any PnP RPG, and that might be your problem.

Excuse me? When was PS ever a PnP RPG? Ok I admit I did toy with using my wacom pad and stylus with the game but it is hardly a pen and paper.

Another attempt to detract from the argument by deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of my words. :rolleyes:
Obviously, PS never was a PnP RPG. However, PnP RPGs are the only ones that have relatively good roleplaying standards. No computer game, be it MUDs or MMORPGs, has ever had these, save PS. Hence, had you been playing a good PnP RPG for some time, experience would have shown to you what I am trying to explain.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
If you had, you would know that, while they all are \"fantasy\", they still have a very limited subset of what might be thought up.

Untill I see official corroberation of that I am sorry I can\'t accept it.

You might want to look at the rules section on the main page for once. :rolleyes: That is an official document, and it even explicitely mentions names.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
The reason is simple: they are trying to form a believable and consistent virtual environment, just like PS.

A believable fantasy? Almost an oxymoron. Yet it is what you imply. And consistant? I believe that is up to the official team to decide. Not you.

Yes, and therefore it is also not up to you to decide if your name is proper or not. And AMOF, they have decided, long before you or I ever heard of PS.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
You are as ill equiped to decide that as the rest of us are seing the incomplete nature of things.

No, the incomplete nature does not mean that there can be any big changes without rewriting what is there. In fact, the outlines of what is intended to be in PS are very clear already, and leave very little room for doubt. At best, they leave room for the interpretation of minor details.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, while you could think of flying microwave ovens that talk, they are not appropriate in a serious setting, not even a sci-fi one.

LOL. I have seen similar and stranger things in sci-fi settings. For peets sake the transformers had vehicle and animal forms. It is not out of the question to consider that there were some with household appliance forms.

Oh, sorry, I was talking about serious roleplay settings, not about movies for children.

Originally posted by Neo Neko

Originally posted by Seytra
Therefore, there are and never will be lightsabers or doom stars in PS.

First no one was advocating either. Second it is a \"deathstar\" (TM) .

:rolleyes: It is obvious that it was an example. Take dragons and vampires, then, if you must.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
1. The game is incomplete. By basically everyones admission. Which means things are subject to change. Including the possibility of rules as well as everything else. Don\'t try jumping on your high horse in mid gallop

Well, while it might change, this possibility is vague at best. It is absolutely no basis for you to argue in favor of silly names. Should PS become a SCI-FI FPS one day, I will accept your reasoning, but I would be extremely surprised if I ever had to.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
2. Chances are the devs get more out of people playing the game than most people get playing it. Which means that the more people who play it the more the devs are likely to get out of it. So it is in their interest to attract as many users as possible. Which would ultimatly make it in your intrest as well.

The fact is that the devs have repeatedly stated that they do PS because they like to do it, not because of us. They also have stated that they would continue with it even if they were the only ones ever playing it. This basically means they don\'t need any of us, and they will shed not a single tear for any of us leaving. And they most definitely want to attract decent roleplayers, and by far not annyone.
Thus, their and my interst is a roleplaying game that is as good as it can become. Therefore, it is in my and their best interest to keep non-RPers of any kind out of the game.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
3. Seeing as the whole thing is beta and there will be a character \"wipe\" soon where exactly is your axe to grind in all this.

My reason is simple: the characters will be wiped, but not the playerbase. Thus, what we are doing in PS affects what PS will be like after the wipe, not only by (mis)shaping our characters, but also by attracting the wrong kind of player, or getting the wrong impression into the minds of new players. Therefore, it is mandatory to treat PS and anything that goes with it as if there would be no wipe, ever.

Originally posted by Neo Neko
If this ever gets to the point where clarrifying information contrary to your personal beliefs is planned to be added to the official guides.

Why would something that doesn\'t align with my beliefs have to be added to official documents in order to make the points I have stated valid in your opinion?

Originally posted by Neo Neko
Otherwise I fail to see what you have constructive to offer.

Indeed. You fail to see it because you are unable and unwilling to accept that your idea of PS is not only not mine, but also not the one of the PS team, which can be concluded from what they state on the mainsite.