The game feels claustrophobic, suspension of disbelief is lacking, no

[Robinmagus]

Originally posted by Bnm85 I addressed the comparrison issue in my post but it said it was too long, so I had to remove it. I will clarify it now though. I am NOT comparing a free tech demo to a commercial game like WoW. WoW just happened to be the game I used for sky, forest and the like screenshots and approaches. There are non-MMO games that have it done nicely as well. Never would I compare PS and WoW overall as MMOs, I was strictly taking geometrical and cosmetical approaches in two games, ignoring the rest. But if you want to compare freebies, the sky in \"Knight Online\", which is a complete free MMORPG feels less limiting, and the game feels much less claustrophobic too. Not to mention without such crazy non-stop relief changes without a \"flat\" surface \"breather\". Here are example screenshots: http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/pianavillage.jpg http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/Untitled-1.jpg http://www.knightonlineworld.com/download/images/Untitled-4.jpg

You do realize that knight online is actually a p2p commercial korean game that happened to get a free english server. and that its hit 1.0 a long time ago?

Just to point that out. As Karyuu said, nice organization and they are pretty decent ideas for something a bit later.

[leuxast]

Hey...I thought up an in-game reason for the wipe...How about this...

The sky is falling...thats why its so low.  The \"Powers that be\" hold the crystal up, but all the new GM\'s are sucking power from the higher powers powers to feed their own puny powers, making the \"Powers that be\" tired....They have decided that they need a weeks rest and so they are letting it drop...Mwohahaha

[Seytra]

There are underground streams that come out of the cavern walls. It is said they join at the bottom, but that does not mean that none of them flow through the higher levels. Therefore, I think ther indeed are several rivers on the various levels.
Rain, OTOH, is IMO very scarce, not to say impossible given the very limited air space, the matter-dissolving properties of the crystal, etc.. Also, some NPCs mention an \"emerald lake\", which must be near Hydlaa, so there is a lot of open water.

As for Vodul: I don\'t know. They wouldn\'t have had to agree to the trade, so it\'s their fault.
Also, both of them surely are fools. Laanx wasn\'t any better than Talad in that she messed around with things she, at best, had seen from a distance. So she was building her bomb in the building nextdoors instead of right in front of her friend, and with a little more clue. Still, both were grossly negligent IMO.

Anyway, I don\'t know of any occasion Vodun would have interfered with the life in Yliakum, so he\'s not the best villain.

Anyway, I see the remaining issues as rather obvious. My, IIRC, I have commented on them way back when the first screenies of CB were released! So I obviously agree, but by that time I was told that a change would not be to be expected anytime soon... and knowing the PS \"soon\", this will be years[/] from now. Still, it\'s a lot of better suggestions than the \"Armor should be visible\" ones.

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Robinmagus
You do realize that knight online is actually a p2p commercial korean game that happened to get a free english server. and that its hit 1.0 a long time ago?

Yes but it is possible to play it completely free and people continue to do so. But as a game itself, KO is crap, you can play without money but people that get real benefits are those who pay real cash for premium accounts. However, as I stated before, I am not comparing the games as a whole, just certain design approaches. There\'s nothing in PS engine that would make it purposely hard in archieving it. Besides, PS is striving to be the \"best MMO\" out there, isn\'t it?

As Karyuu said, nice organization and they are pretty decent ideas for something a bit later.

Thanks!

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Seytra
There are underground streams that come out of the cavern walls. It is said they join at the bottom, but that does not mean that none of them flow through the higher levels. Therefore, I think ther indeed are several rivers on the various levels.
Rain, OTOH, is IMO very scarce, not to say impossible given the very limited air space, the matter-dissolving properties of the crystal, etc.. Also, some NPCs mention an \"emerald lake\", which must be near Hydlaa, so there is a lot of open water.

As for Vodul: I don\'t know. They wouldn\'t have had to agree to the trade, so it\'s their fault.
Also, both of them surely are fools. Laanx wasn\'t any better than Talad in that she messed around with things she, at best, had seen from a distance. So she was building her bomb in the building nextdoors instead of right in front of her friend, and with a little more clue. Still, both were grossly negligent IMO.

Anyway, I don\'t know of any occasion Vodun would have interfered with the life in Yliakum, so he\'s not the best villain.

Anyway, I see the remaining issues as rather obvious. My, IIRC, I have commented on them way back when the first screenies of CB were released! So I obviously agree, but by that time I was told that a change would not be to be expected anytime soon... and knowing the PS \"soon\", this will be years[/] from now. Still, it\'s a lot of better suggestions than the \"Armor should be visible\" ones.

Hehe, I agree with most of your points. Both Laanx and Talad don\'t seem too smart. The history even said they often disregarded the warnings of wiser gods, so I\'m not surprised Talad went ahead and made a huge mess. Yes, it is partially their fault for agreeing to Vodul\'s \"proposition\" but it also shows that Vodul is anything but nice and kind. The whole thing seems rather messy. That\'s why I didn\'t pick to worship anyone with my character. I can\'t possibly worship gods like that, no matter the rewards.

They did mention other older gods. Heck, even Vodul might become more of a villain if he isn\'t now. Maybe he gets jealous of something, who knows. Perhaps he can start sending his own monsterous creations to conquer the crystal world. Maybe Laanx and Talad or the inhabitants of the world discover something valuable that Vodul will suddenly want. Or it can be some other unnamed older god.

I believe someone mentioned making a video that clearly shows the history or at least key moments for the game, and I think it\'s a great idea. I wish someone talented with CGI skills actually made an intro for the game, and some talented musician wrote a dramatic score for it.

[Robinmagus]

Originally posted by Bnm85

Originally posted by Robinmagus You do realize that knight online is actually a p2p commercial korean game that happened to get a free english server. and that its hit 1.0 a long time ago?

Yes but it is possible to play it completely free and people continue to do so. But as a game itself, KO is crap, you can play without money but people that get real benefits are those who pay real cash for premium accounts. However, as I stated before, I am not comparing the games as a whole, just certain design approaches. There\'s nothing in PS engine that would make it purposely hard in archieving it. Besides, PS is striving to be the \"best MMO\" out there, isn\'t it?

As Karyuu said, nice organization and they are pretty decent ideas for something a bit later.

Thanks!

\"MMORPG\" actually. forgeting the rp in PS is equivelant to first degree murder

Oh and your welcome

[Efflixi Aduro]

I get that closed in feeling too when I play ps. I don\'t feel it so much outside but in buildings I get it a LOT. I actually like to stay outside because of it. Unless im in somthing like the tempel. Oh and, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!! 8o

You shouldn\'t be able to see such a curve in the sky like that. It makes it look solid.

To tell the truth actually, when I first read about ps I was hoping that when I looked up I would see the massive ceiling of the cave with a bright light in the middle, that would be ausome.

Or even better, were in a cave! Lose the crystal and make it dark 24/7! Wow that would add such a dark feeling to ps, I LOVE IT!!!!!!!

[Myrddin]

Yay someone with clear and concise suggestions for further development. I do think it?s a little unfair to put in the WoW screenshots but as you say it\'s not a comparison but an example. The only thing is it does come across as more of a critique than suggestions that you would like to see implemented.

I may not agree with all of what you say but it\'s so nice to see someone that can articulate their grievances without resorting to three word statements and unjustified comments of \"This game is c**p\".

Some of the best input and I have seen.

[Androgos]

Too many posts, don\'t have time to read them all..

Anyway, I fully agree with you, the sky.. .sucks..
About the forest path, that will change, it\'s marly a transition map atm.

Everything will be improved in time, we just focus on stuff to keep the players busy for a time (quests and stuff) before we look into fixing maps. For example, we need to do the wipe before we can start fixing on more non-important things

[Cyl]

about the elevation inside Hydlaa; looking as the city is quite limited in space, looking at the cliffs on one side; the river on the second one and the forest on the third, and it is obviously a \"grown\" city it is somewhat logic that they used any space somewhat useable to build their city on. Just a thought.

If it comes to Odjaroad, I actually liked it there, but I would appreciate it more if it was actually some kind of mountainrange. Also all those hills somehow encourage a system of tunnels.

[Moogie]

Seytra\'s post a while back confused me. Hydlaa is on the First Level. So if you\'re travelling down to other levels, how is the sky possibly coming closer...? We are closest to the sky at the moment. Other levels will show a sky far higher than that seen anywhere on the First Level.

[Wired_Crawler]

That\'s funny. I can\'t explain why, but I always thought, that every level has its own ceiling (which acts as floor for higher level)... Moogie, are You trying to tell, that every level (but lowest) has the shape of flat donut ? Wow. First level will be big... We can\'t even see the central shaft now... Or can we ? Is the current end of the world the edge of the first level ? And this explains all confusion about directions (where is east, where north). We should rather use \"Disc World\" method of defining directions.

[Keyaz]

i suppose each level is donut shaped, until the bottom one, directions though.

from what i remember the slops going up towards the windowless tower is north, laanx statue faces south south west or someting similar to that :\\

[Moogie]

Sorta, but only half. The roofs are sloped in order for light to reach the lower Levels, otherwise they\'d be in darkness.

http://www.albinomoogie.net/images/yliakummoogie.jpg

[Nikodemus]

Originally posted by Bnm85
Last but not least - where\'s the sense of danger in the game? When a new visitor comes to the site, they see a cozy tavern and a dwarf, that\'s it. Every interesting MMO out there has some kind of struggle or conflict or a sense of danger, be it different factions or some new enemy trying to conquer the innocent folk. Is the real conflict between Laanx and Talad? Or is Vodul the real villain here that will show his \"face\" eventually? I can\'t really hate Laanx or see her as evil, since from the story Talad stupidly used crytal powers without knowing how to properly use it first. But yet, he doesn\'t seem especially evil either. The only one that I see as evil is Vodul because he tried to make Laanx give him special umm \"favors\" (you know what I mean). There doesn\'t seem to be any independant conquering race. They all seem to live together fairly happily and the only goal to reach is to become a hero. But how can you become a hero without a serious danger or villain to defeat? Random ungoverned monsters or even small goverened enemies here and there, just for the sake of being in the game, doesn\'t quite pass up as \"glooming danger\" in the bigger picture/story of the game. Of course, this is only a tech demo, perhaps the real danger will come in the full game.

I can\'t describe how happy I em that someone wrote about it.
It makes me wonder all the time if Yliakum will be ever a bit dangerous. With all those people screaming \"he have stole my kill. Ban him, ban him!\" or \"You are being rude and selfish which is no roleplaying at all because roleplaying is only when everybody are happy\"
I don\'t know how others, but I would hate to live in world where everybody love each other and those who don\'t are banned.
Maybe it is only me, but I truly wonder what is the goal of GM\'s.  Especially that any discussion about GM\'s work are closed and there is not much to learn about how problems are solved and if it is always the right way.
Just my few tria, I hope nobody will hang me for that.