Author Topic: a thought about that hurricane  (Read 12055 times)

ramlambmoo

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« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2005, 03:15:14 pm »
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Sure, but you don\'t get leaders that have evil intentions but end up doing intelligent, good things. I don\'t think Bush is a great president, but he was better than anyone else running. I just hope that there\'s better candidates next elections.


Yes, well I was just saying that to point out that intentions mean nothing.  I would have voted for Gore or Kerry any day over Bush, because I think they would have easily made a better president.  But thats conjecture and opinion, so Im not really going to argue about it.  If Bush was the best america could come up with, then I honestly feel sorry for them.

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Care to elaborate on this?


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(From Amnesty International)
Hundreds of detainees continued to be held without charge or trial at the US naval base in Guant?namo Bay, Cuba. Thousands of people were detained during US military and security operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and routinely denied access to their families and lawyers.

Military investigations were initiated or conducted into allegations of torture and ill-treatment of detainees by US personnel in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and into reports of deaths in custody and ill-treatment by US forces elsewhere in Iraq, and in Afghanistan and Guant?namo. Evidence came to light that the US administration had sanctioned interrogation techniques that violated the UN Convention against Torture. Pre-trial military commission hearings opened in Guant?namo but were suspended pending a US court ruling.


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In August, the Independent Panel to Review Department of Defense Detention Operations, appointed by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld following the publication of photographs of torture and ill-treatment committed by US personnel in Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq (see below), reported that since the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, about 50,000 people had been detained during US military and security operations.

US forces operated some 25 detention facilities in Afghanistan and 17 in Iraq (see below). Detainees were routinely denied access to lawyers and families. In Afghanistan, the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) had access only to some detainees in Bagram and Kandahar air bases.

Detentions in undisclosed locations

A number of detainees, reported to be those considered by the US authorities to have high intelligence value, were alleged to remain in secret detention in undisclosed locations. In some cases, their situation amounted to ?disappearance?. Some individuals were believed to have been held in secret locations for as long as three years. The refusal or failure of the US authorities to clarify the whereabouts or status of the detainees, leaving them outside the protection of the law for a prolonged period, clearly violated the standards of the UN Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance.

Allegations that the US authorities were involved in the secret transfer of detainees between countries, exposing detainees to the risk of torture and ill-treatment, continued.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2005, 03:22:24 pm by ramlambmoo »

Platyna

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« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2005, 03:17:01 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by derwoodly
Quote
Originally posted by Platyna
Surely that
what American soldiers are doing with Iraqis is below humanity and no soberly
thinking persons will accept it.


Care to elaborate on this?


Sure, CNN and NBC published kinda not nice photos...posting direct links here
is not a good idea though, considering there are underages reading it so
I suggest Google.


Regards.
Zuzanna K. Filutowska
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\"The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.\" -- Edward Burke

Xordan

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« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2005, 04:31:23 pm »
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Originally posted by ramlambmoo
If Bush was the best america could come up with, then I honestly feel sorry for them.


Agreed.. and I feel sorry for them.

Remember than _some_ of the soldiers were doing those things. I don\'t think you can look at what the few were doing and put a bad stamp on them all.

zanzibar

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« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2005, 04:33:33 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by steuben
i was thinking about this earlier today.

that hurricane was a little bit convient. it is exactly what the bush government needed to distracted the populace from the quagemire that is iraq. the us military spawned that storm. the then directed it to a plausible, but rarely hit, location.

presto, instant distraction. americans are no longer thinking about iraq. they now see bush and the republicans as rescuers that helped to rebuild new orleans and the area.

*removes tin foil hat*




If it was an election year, Katrina would have cost Bush the White House.  This is one disaster they can\'t blame on Clinton or CNN.
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Immaturity is FTW.

Xordan

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« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2005, 05:14:12 pm »
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Originally posted by zanzibar
If it was an election year, Katrina would have cost Bush the White House.  This is one disaster they can\'t blame on Clinton or CNN.


Um, I don\'t think you can blame a hurricane on anybody...

DepthBlade

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« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2005, 09:49:11 pm »
Shush Xordan don\'t you know anything? You can blame anyone for anything, without proof or regard on the internet.

derwoodly

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« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2005, 12:17:07 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Platyna
Quote
Originally posted by derwoodly
Quote
Originally posted by Platyna
Surely that
what American soldiers are doing with Iraqis is below humanity and no soberly
thinking persons will accept it.


Care to elaborate on this?


Sure, CNN and NBC published kinda not nice photos...posting direct links here
is not a good idea though, considering there are underages reading it so
I suggest Google.


Regards.


You say American Soldiers are \"below humanity\", and what do I get as proof, \"kinda not nice photo\'s\" and some other random posts about Abu Ghraib.  

What kind of interigation should we use on combatants?  Of all the horrors that humans have done to each other, why are the ones that the US does, more criminal than what every one else does.  

What country *has* complied with UN rules? None, so why should we be any different.

I am not suggesting that We get a free pass on human rights.  What I would like to see is an end to the wild overstated acusations flung at the USA like monkey poo from wild caged monkeys.

ramlambmoo

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« Reply #82 on: September 12, 2005, 12:45:26 am »
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You say American Soldiers are \"below humanity\", and what do I get as proof, \"kinda not nice photo\'s\" and some other random posts about Abu Ghraib.  


Read my post then.  There is your proof.  Or go to Amnesty International and read their Yearly report on the U.S. (Its avaliable from their website).  

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What kind of interigation should we use on combatants? Of all the horrors that humans have done to each other, why are the ones that the US does, more criminal than what every one else does.  


What the U.S does to its prisioners is no worse then what Sadaam Hussien did, granted.  But Sadaam Hussien is being held for war crimes and will most probablly be sentenced to death for what he did.  

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What country *has* complied with UN rules? None, so why should we be any different.  


This is an ignorant, stupid view.  You are saying that because everyone breaks some rule, then you should be allowed to do what you want?  True, nearly all countries have broken some rules at some point- but they are all subseqently critisied for it, and in some cases, the Governments are deposed and the leaders sentenced.  Furthermore, there are very few countries that are accused of such serious crimes as contravening the Geneva Convention, UN Convention against Torture and the UN Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, to name a few.  The U.S invaded Iraq on the pretext of disposing of a regime that had committed crimes against humanity against the people of Iraq (since the WMD charge was false), and so to say \"Well they did It so we can\" is just ridiculous.

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I am not suggesting that We get a free pass on human rights.


On the contrary, you are saying that you should get a free pass on human rights.  Your previous paragraph said \"What country *has* complied with UN rules? None, so why should we be any different. \"  You just said that your country should be \"no different\" in not having to comply with UN rules.  UN rules cover human rights.  You are, effectivly suggesting with that statement, that the Human rights abuses of the U.S be overlooked.  I do not think the Human Rights abuses of any country should be overlooked, regardless of wether \"everybody else is doing it\" (which they aren\'t).

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What I would like to see is an end to the wild overstated acusations flung at the USA like monkey poo from wild caged monkeys.


And i\'d like to see an end to the ridiculous attempts at justifying the wrongdoings of some people in the american administration and army.  But it obviously isnt going to happen.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 12:47:12 am by ramlambmoo »

Xordan

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« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2005, 01:25:08 am »
Quote
Originally posted by DepthBlade
Shush Xordan don\'t you know anything? You can blame anyone for anything, without proof or regard on the internet.


Oh yeah
<.<
>.>
:P


And when nobody can stop a country doing what it wants to do, then that country can technically do what it wants to do. :) We can\'t have all these laws and stuff when there\'s no penalty for breaking them. There\'s no country in the world that can stop the US from doing what it wants, same goes for the UK.

derwoodly

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« Reply #84 on: September 12, 2005, 05:16:34 am »
Your idea of below humanity is different than mine.  Perhaps that is because my opinions are ignorant and stupid as you say.

    \"What country *has* complied with UN rules? None,
      so why should we be any different.\"

Since you quoted this twice, I seem to have hit on some sort of nerve, I apologize.  It was a rather flipent remark.

My question to you then is.  How do you propose we capture and question Terroists? From my point of view it looks like were are the only ones who are even trying to uphold the Geneva conventions.  When our humanity was called into question we changed our procedures, we have allowed Guant?namo to be inspected.  That is certainly more than anyone else has done.

davo

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« Reply #85 on: September 12, 2005, 06:49:44 am »
the good old take the piss outa everyones country.

remeber guys.  do not let people, the government or other crap speek for the people in the country. *dont quote me on this one, im defending general views, even if its not evident here*

remeber cyclones are random natural events.

i feel sorry for the people there and im amazed the water leves are still high.

whats done is done, and on a positive note the world can learn from it.

on a random note, what is with alot of american talk about bush ?, im not an american so i wouldent know.

anways, good luck to you america.
in game name : davoid

derwoodly

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« Reply #86 on: September 12, 2005, 07:20:22 am »
Here is a recap:

New Orleans is below sea level, protected by 100 year old levys

Cat 4/5 Huricane ran right over the top of the city

Levy broke the next day, flooding the city.

1000\'s of poor, mosty black, citizens were stuck in the city for days.

Many people are now pointing fingures at who is to blame for the levy\'s failure, and the slow response from the government in evacuating the remaining citizens.

Most of those fingures are aimed at the President, Mr. Bush.

The orginal poster thought that this disaster some how took the presure off Bush and that he somehow had something to do with it.

The thread is now about how Bush is evil, and the USA is full of morons, not excluding the author of this post.

Xordan

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« Reply #87 on: September 12, 2005, 01:22:43 pm »
Evacuating an area larger than the whole UK... yeah that\'s a easy 2 day job....  :D
« Last Edit: September 12, 2005, 01:23:02 pm by Xordan »

derwoodly

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« Reply #88 on: September 12, 2005, 01:48:25 pm »
I am sure Bush will not escape without mud on him.  I read an artical by Kathleen Parker about what mistakes Bush made, and I would have to agree with her.  His \"folksy\" speaches do more harm than good.  

I am only defending Bush against wacky, he caused the huricane arguements.

Black_rose

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« Reply #89 on: September 12, 2005, 09:07:25 pm »
wow, that theory is so great that i laughed my arse off at the utter stupidity of the idea...


although i am against the government and i do know it covers things up, i dont think we have the capasity to control the weather, personally i haven\'t payed crap for attention to that place.. im sorry but im fed up with the drama of this country, but the thing is, i feel for the human and animal life, but the not the material loss. and further more if we wanted a distraction we would have nuked the city and blamed it on korea

[ Edited for language. --Karyuu ]
« Last Edit: February 26, 2007, 01:20:00 am by Karyuu »
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