I want a Guild Chest! (Lockpicking)

[Araye]

I think that is taking it just a tad out of the \"planeshift concept\":

\"WHAT IS PLANESHIFT?  The objective of the PlaneShift is to create a virtual fantasy world in which a player can start as a peasant in search of fame and become a hero. First of all PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game. Be sure to read our Roleplay guidelines or you will not be able to play this game. We will focus our efforts in the reproduction of a real world with politics, economy, many non-player-characters controlled by the server that will bring to life our world even without players connected!\"

In my opinion, the peasant to hero quest, does not include having to sit in the plaza each day selling the apples we\'ve harvested.  That\'s a farmer.  Period.

Peasant to hero, is the guy/gal who crawled out from under the cow and thought, \"you know, there must be something better than this.  There must be MORE to life.\"  

Now I\'m not against those of you who want to role play a farmer.  Great!  I\'ve got some apples I\'d like to sell you, but I am role playing the peasant to hero as defined by the objective.  I expect NPC\'s to \"bring to life our world even without players connected!\"

And that\'s what I have to say about that.

[zorbels]

Well I think that a place, person or thing to hold guild members items is a great idea. It would do wonders for the role play of planeshift.  I also think it would add to the realisim of planeshift if the chests could be picked.

[Stronith]

A chest that could be purchased by anyone, or by a guild that could be locked, stashed away and vulnerable to sneaky lockpickers who may stumble across  it is a great idea.  

To deny lockpickers the opportunity to loot your stash would be ... silly.  The chest would not be manditory, and if a guild chose to use one - they could choose to protect it too.  

Being able to bury it would be neat if anyone could pick up the shovel.

[Karyuu]

Before there can be actual chests, there needs to be a place to put the chests ;) Otherwise this is all moot.

[Bereror]

Originally posted by Araye
I think that is taking it just a tad out of the \"planeshift concept\":

You took everything I said literally, did you? Ok, I will try to do the same:

\"WHAT IS PLANESHIFT?  The objective of the PlaneShift is to create a virtual fantasy world in which a player can start as a peasant in search of fame and become a hero. First of all PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game. Be sure to read our Roleplay guidelines or you will not be able to play this game. We will focus our efforts in the reproduction of a real world with politics, economy, many non-player-characters controlled by the server that will bring to life our world even without players connected!\"

Players start as peasants and become heroes. It is a long long search of fame before they can become heroes. In meantime they sit on the Plaza and sell apples

Back to the original topic. In addition to the \"WHY\" Rule I would have another rule: \"How does your wish or idea benefit role-playing?\". The original wish posted by Sisilam answers to both questions:

Why?
I noticed that hundred of rubys will consume a lot space

How does it benefit role-playing?
in fact of the new Lockpicking skill it might be interesting for others to lockpick such Chests to get the Loot. That way also Guild Members have the purpouse to watch their Chest! One more purpouse what Guild members may do/work.

[Araye]

What\'s not to take literally here:

\"I think Plaza should be packed with characters trading rice, eggs, fish, whatever and not NPCs  This is a roleplaying game and anything that can be done by players should be done that way. Game mechanics, NPCs etc. are needed to support roleplay, but not for anything else.\"

I don\'t care to fight about this, so if you don\'t mind, I will not respond to this off topic noise.  If you want to continue the debate, pm me, my mailbox is empty.

[Induane]

Actually it isn\'t necessarily out of realism in the PS world to have locks that can\'t be picked...

You make your payment to Talad to start your guild.  He provides you with your storage area and protects teh lock with the hightest magic in the land.  Even the greatist mortal mages would be unable to unlock it.


A key is fine, but risky, in that keys can be lost.  I don\'t see how getting an entire guilds stronghold stolen is a good thing, and I don\'t think it makes the game much fun.  A few statics and certanties in a game don\'t necessarily provide for good rp.  If we can pick and loot a chest of a guild then how come we can\'t steal every belonging on a person if he/she dies?

[Bereror]

Originally posted by Induane
You make your payment to Talad to start your guild.  He provides you with your storage area and protects teh lock with the hightest magic in the land.  Even the greatist mortal mages would be unable to unlock it.

Maybe Laanx could offer some help when unlocking the lock? I guess they both are equally good in magic

A key is fine, but risky, in that keys can be lost.  I don\'t see how getting an entire guilds stronghold stolen is a good thing, and I don\'t think it makes the game much fun.  A few statics and certanties in a game don\'t necessarily provide for good rp.  If we can pick and loot a chest of a guild then how come we can\'t steal every belonging on a person if he/she dies?

I love the idea about chests both for guilds and for individuals. And I also see a potential in lockpicking and stealing items from chests. And I do see a lot of pros and cons. Before it can be implemented, at least the following needs to be solved:
* A way to protect the chest, like by guarding it or something similar.
* A way to find the thief, because every thief leaves at least some leads.
* A way to punish the thief when caught and get your items back.

So a lot of unsolved issues, but hey, this is a discussion board and the community is here to come out with greatest ideas

[Sisilam]

ahhh ... very fine discussion :-)

yes .. I got thought about the lockpicking problem twice before I post it.

1.) First of all I think everyone of us agree with me that a chest will be very usefull and also that it will be easyer to only give it to guilds in the first step.

2.a) Where to put the quest while guilds still have no home place? Maybe the guild Master might move it like a bag and could drop it where he thinks will be a good place for the quest. So it have to be an object that is unmoveable for other members as the guild leader who owns it. This is not difficult as some of you know the floating mugs which also can\'t be moved.

2.b) In result of that you are in need of such chest box. So you might be able to buy one from a smithy if you are a guild leadeer. Than you can buy one and move it anywhere you like it.

3.a) Locks. I guess as like the lock on the floating mugs, that each chest will have its individual lock. Maybe you might lock it with a keyword instead. So you could tell some of your guild members that keyword like giving them a key. Like a magic Lock of sort of \"Open Sesame!!\" of the story \"1001 Night\".

3.b) Lockpicking will able to let someone steel your stuff. so some guys are fear of being robed. Yes this is problematic  but think of that.
- A Masterlock need one with Mastelockpicking abilitys to lockpick
- One who has Masterlockpicking ablilitys might be a member who is in this game for quite a long time
- Someone who is in the game for a long periode of time still have good weapons and stuff. So it might be easier to loot an NPC instead of using couple of hours to spend trieng lockpicking.

4.) You might prevent from being lockpicked by installing a trap to your chest. So you might be combine that lock with a powerfull glyph of fireball. If someone will fail to lockpick he might be killed by a fireball or lightning flash. If you ever tried to dig ore you know how often you are unsuccessfull on digging ore. While ore digging won\'t harm you if you fail, a trap might harm you badly. So that way other players might think twice if they try to lockpick, will be killed and maybe the chest ist still empty or only has 2 small daggers in it.

5.) Guarding a Chest. Yes it might be impossible to guard your Chest all the time, but in that case you have still the possibility to empty that chest and put everything you need your inventory and than logging off! Anyhow it is still some kind of work you might do if you are in a guild and you might use the time to play advisor ;-)

So with the combination of trap and lock this chests might be pretty save. On the other hand it will be still possible to interact and use that for a quest between some guilds, if you are searching for a special item. The complexity to lockpick and remove the trap will limit those thing to some rare special cases.
Anyhow a dead guild which has consumed a lot of items and dropped that in the chest box and then did not log in for several weeks/months don\'t need to wonder if something might be stolen.

[Araye]

I like number 4!  Bam! DR for you!

[white_slayer]

about the guilds having there own npc it is a good idea but ud need a special place to have it like a guild registering place could have a big room full of them i dunno or u could just have 1 chest in a bank and when u open it ur guild stuff is i nthere but other guilds can use same chest but wen they open it there guilds stuff (magic chest)

[Rheos]

*Rheos rummages deep down in the wishlist and pulls out a dusty old thread, gives it a careful clean and puts it out in the light again*

All of that talk about "I want a lock that can't be picked" etc is irrelevant to me (and probably somewhat irrelevant now guild houses are in game anyway), I just want a chest in game that I can put in the guild house and put my stuff in so I don't cause lag in the GH, A sack simply doesn't hold enough.

On thinking about it, a thief trying to steal a heavy chest by the pickup and drop method would be a highly amusing sight. 

Rheos

[Zan]

I'm certain it's on its way.

[MrGadget]

I've said this before in other less-active threads...

Law enforcement first, crime second.  Right now a player can swipe something and log out and face no penalty whatsoever.  Log files are not evidence, and the server (if it even records every action) logs aren't accessible.

I can live with the occasional mugging through good RP for a circle in the wilderness, or even a dark alley I chose as a shortcut at my own peril.  Seedy neighborhoods that might be known to avoid at night...again...good RP and I can deal.

Lockpicking is just an exploit.  It also requires tools, which are not in game.  It also requires time...lots of it.  Really good locks cannot be "picked" but must be drilled out or the lock cylinder replaced using a special master and tools, or must be destroyed in some fashion, often with damage to the container in the process, and possibly to the contents as well.

Merchants have been begging for large locking chests because their on-hand inventory far exceeds character inventory and sacks due to volume and size constraints.  We want to be able to drop several locked chests (big ones) at the place where we sell our goods and be able to put and take items to and from them at will as long as we remain in guarding range of them.  A single large chest may have a few hundred thousand tria worth of inventory, and having that just disappear in the blink of an eye with no recourse is just not going to be acceptable.  We're using alts now, and those are extremely inconvenient.  Running multiple clients without crashing them all is a delicate operation, and can require multiple computers to manage and requires a bunch of separate accounts (not characters) to work.  Using them requires being able to trade among them before trading with the PC who wants to buy something, and that's not convenient either.

Yes, please - large portable locking chests, that any player can buy from an NPC as soon as feasible would be wonderful.  A lot of alts could be eliminated, and game play would be much enhanced.

If Lockpicking is to exist, I would expect the following:

• guarded containers should be impervious
• each attempt should take many -minutes- without moving
• the picker should have tools equipped for the task
• such tools, being rather delicate, should have a high probability of breaking in the attempt
• the picker must be in touch range of the lock
• the success probability must be very low
• anyone within sight of the picker should have an excellent chance of noticing the activity with a prompt message in middle of the screen "You observe that _____ is trying to pick a lock..raise the alarm? Yes / No", and if Yes is clicked a Shout is generated for all in the vicinity to hear
• the discovered picker would be in auto-accept of multiple-concurrent-attack PVP by everyone nearby if the alarm is raised, or by the discoverer if the alarm is not raised
• if the container is successfully opened anything taken would be returned to the container immediately upon discovery to prevent escape by quick logout
• any guards in the area would be alerted
• guard presence would secure the container as guarded until the owner returns to guarding range to lock it again

Yes yes, this is all may seem extreme.  Consider that without the above, a lock picker could effectively clean out every merchant and every guild house in a matter of hours, and there would be absolutely nothing anyone could do about it...they'd get away with it completely.

How does such a scenario enhance the experience for the whole community?

MrG

[Prolix]

That does not seem practical. Need tools? Depends on the lock. Combination locks can be manipulated, it takes time yes but it can be done. In a game with magic the proper glyph might be all that is needed.

Why do you need to trade between you alts to serve a customer? Can't your alt be trusted to handle the transaction?

Many minutes in game time adds up to many seconds of real time.

A good smith could knock out a tool in a flash from materials at hand.

If I see someone fussing over a lock box do I know that he is picking it or if his key is damaged? Therefore your yes/no alarm should always be in effect.

If you can carry that heavy a chest so can I and I'll pick your lock where there are no eyes to see.

Mostly pvp is annoying but thievery is not always pvp. It is these kinds of considerations that hold back the development of such abilities. Lock picking has been functional for at least the past two versions but there has been nothing to practice it on for players. I have heard a rumor there is a lock that can be picked currently but I have never seen it or heard where it might be.