Guild Size Control

[shorty13]

Originally posted by Sangwa
I think shorty\'s idea is really good! And oldbies can wait 5 days ^^.

Or better. If it\'s possible, once an account has its first character created, none of its characters can join a guild for a week
That way players with over a week of experience can create alts who can join guilds.

Hey, I think we\'re building up a nice idea here.

/me gives Sangwa a High-Five!

[Araye]

Look it\'s about personal responsibilty.  If you can /guildinvite then you have to take the responsibilty to train these people how to roleplay and make sure they\'re going to stay active in the guild.  

The way I recruit is: I will generally help someone new and add them to my buddy list.  Periodically I will check in on them and make sure they are still active and enjoying PS.  This gives me confidence that my effort to train this new person will not be wasted.  Then I roleplay directly with them.  I help give them advice on roleplaying.  After I\'m confident in them, then I invite.  After that you continue to encourage and lead by example.  

You, the invitation giver, must accept that responsibilty.

Power levelers will get tired of it and quit PS after a few weeks/months.

Araye

[defender43]

Well, this is slightly off-topic but kind of on-topic as well: Would a small, roleplaying guild like to recruit Crimsonn Draycko?

[Karyuu]

Crimsonn will have to do the searching - looking through the stickied Guild List may be a good first step in narrowing down the preferred purpose of the guild.

Concerning mass recruiting, I still like my old idea of reversing the process - meaning that players will have to send requests to join, and guilds accept. It will at least encourage guilds to hold conversations and try to catch the eyes of new players, instead of immediately inviting anyone willing to click \"Accept.\"

[goland]

Originally posted by Karyuu
Concerning mass recruiting, I still like my old idea of reversing the process - meaning that players will have to send requests to join, and guilds accept. It will at least encourage guilds to hold conversations and try to catch the eyes of new players, instead of immediately inviting anyone willing to click \"Accept.\"

This is a great system....if the guild leaders are responsible and discriminating in who they accept.  We currently have guild leaders that seem to want big guilds.  What would stop a guild leader who doesn\'t care whether the members RP or PL from amassing a hundred PLers?

Of course, if we have less PLers and more RPers then none of this would be an issue in the first place...like I mentioned in my last post.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by goland
What would stop a guild leader who doesn\'t care whether the members RP or PL from amassing a hundred PLers?

People interested in RP aren\'t likely to join a guild whose members are nonchalant about newcomers, or don\'t have anything interesting to attract them with besides numbers ;) And since newcomers will be the ones who will need to send applications, they\'ll have the chance to look around more and find something better.

If a guild composed of \"powerlevelers\" entirely forms, it will most certainly fall after a time - the community has very little tolerance for people who refuse to roleplay, and it\'s impossible for a large group to avoid contact with others for too long (thus running into roleplayers, not roleplaying, possibly messing up their RP and receiving warnings, etc.).

Anyway, I think this sort of reversal might encourage roleplay a bit more :>

[goland]

I like the idea, but we\'re assuming newcomers are going to be looking for a guild that roleplays.  This goes back to my first post.  Newcomers are introduced to hack and slashing before any roleplay usually.  I know I was.  Luckily I stumbled upon an rp event when trying to find a higher slash sword.  I didn\'t know rp events even existed until a bit into the game.  I\'m positive I\'m not the only person who this happened to.

Newcomers may welcome a guild who will accept anyone.  They\'ll have access to higher slash weapons and trias.  The guilds that will have the most money and higher slash weapons would be the PLers.  RPers might even be inclined to join such a guild as they wouldn\'t have to spend their time leveling in order to get weapons and trias.

Having to send an application doesn\'t nessecarily make newcomers \"shop around\" for guilds.  The first guild that comes to them and asks them to send them an application could recruit them.  What stops this?

[Karyuu]

You definitely raise good points, and this \"solution\" can\'t be the only one :) Many are necessary, including more RP events, more and better working NPC quests, more people willing to welcome newcomers through RP, etc. But it\'s one of the steps towards a better atmosphere.

[goland]

An NPC in view of the spawn point that gives you a quest the first time you play would be, IMO, good.  Of course, the vocabulary and AI of the NPCs would have to be better for this to work well.  If NPCs could initiate conversations then that would help.  I have a few ideas about this but I don\'t want to get the thread off-topic.

As far as the game mechanics of guilds go, I like Karyuu\'s idea a lot.  I don\'t think much needs to be changed in the game as far as guilds are concerned.  I believe the problem is newcomers not getting thrown into RP right off when they start the game.

If we recognize that newcomers draw their first impressions of the game within the first 5 or 10 minutes of playing and introduce RP actively within those first minutes of the game, I think RPing would increase greatly.

[shorty13]

I think that mine and Sangwa\'s idea + Karyuu\'s = somthing really good.

We should try it.

[Ecolem]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Edit:  Further, it\'s unrealistic.

BAH! What are you talking about it is the most realistic way...and remember were hear to ESCAPE from reality and all off its life stresses!

Originally posted by shorty13
I think that mine and Sangwa\'s idea + Karyuu\'s = somthing really good.

What you dont like my idea  

[goland]

Originally posted by shorty13
I think that mine and Sangwa\'s idea + Karyuu\'s = somthing really good.

We should try it.

I don\'t like the idea of raising fees to start guilds.  Like zanzibar said, it\'s counterproductive.

Say I want to start a guild that will focus on roleplaying and helping the community...non-income producing things for the most part.  Say the guild is successful and grew.  

With Sangwa\'s plan, I would be slapped with fees and in order to pay the fees I would either need to get trias myself or get everyone in the guild to contribute. Either way it would cause me or my members to have to go out and spend lots of time in the arena (ultimately PLing) to get enough money.

Or if we do the guild management skill thing, it would just take more time away from RPing to go towards PLing guild management in order to be able to recruit people who may be great RPers.

I like Karyuu\'s idea.  I don\'t think the guild system is the real problem and I don\'t think it needs a lot of changes.


Edit:  I like the idea of having a waiting period after character creation before people can join a guild.

[zanzibar]

If a guild is successful in mass recruiting, there\'s probably a reason for it.

Sometimes, it\'s a \"noob\" guild.  Maybe one day, it will be to defend Hydlaa from an evil invasion.  There are different reasons for it to happen.

However, if it\'s just powerlevellers who are \"succumbing\" to these mass recruiting guilds, then what\'s the loss?  I think that Sangwa has another reason for proposing this.

[Sangwa]

Mass Recruiting guilds have few roleplayers and as such they will not defend hydlaa against anything... maybe they\'ll even endager it by driving monsters to extinction.

You haven\'t been following this idea\'s progress. The currrent idea is to have a Guild Management skill (which is realistic because different people have different managing skills) and, what I think will work better, a feature that doesn\'t allow new accounts\' characters to join a guild until they\'ve been ingame time enough.
Having fees is a good idea too.
All this features actually contribute to making a guild something more than wearing a pin. It makes it an effort. A group effort if things are done right.

Some players do not choose to be powerlevelers. It\'s simply the part of the game they\'ve been introduced to.
With a better recruiting system we could ease that and facilitate the community\'s work. Plus, there\'s no relevant set backs.

Zanzibar your paranoia, even if flattering, lacks any kind of solid arguments.
The reason I\'m doing this is simple: I am a guild leader and I want roleplaying guild members.

[Waylander]

Right, I\'m all for roleplay, most of you know this well;  and I see Sangwa\'s point and believe it is valid and then some.

But the ideas in here,  guild management skill is a skill and what makes you think the powerlevelers won\'t powerlevel that?

The fees, as has been noted before, would also just help the powerlevelers because they gain a lot of tria while powerleveling.

Neither of these will do anything more than limit the size of roleplaying guilds.

The 5 day waiting period is much more along the lines of what we need...  Maybe even a council to decide whether the person wanting to create the guild roleplays enough.

Either way, I just wanted to point out the flaws of the two ideas mentioned.

Valbrandr\'s idea in the guild forums thread is the best so far, in my opinion, though it needs to be worked on.
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