Leveling: not harder but easy

[Pestilence]

True but as I said. it doesn\'t make people RP. It might indeed be something you might implement but I really don\'t think it\'s a solution so it\'s really offtopiic as it only gives powerlevelers more choices what to level.

Do I mind powerlevelers? Not really mind them and don\'t see my way scaring them of, I think it\'s a very nice way for people to first level and have something to do while getting to know Planeshift and then have them look even deeper into the community

Also gives roleplayers the chance to be really good at things they say they are good at when roleplaying without having to spend days without roleplaying.

[Einnol]

In my opinion, no amount of balancing of skills or making it harder or easier to gain levels will make people role-play.  The role-players (like myself) will do so because they enjoy it and they will incorporate it into everything they do.  It certainly is possible to role-play while hunting or mining, as long as you are perfoming these skills or tasks in-character.  You can carry on RP conversations and actions between NPC kills and mining attempts.  As long as you do not break character with OOC references, etc., you are still \'role-playing\'.

I think the community and the guilds (particularly the guild leaders) should be the biggest motivators towards role-playing.  It seems to me that it would be nearly impossible to encourage role-playing thru the game mechanics and features.

[Pestilence]

hhmm I have to disagree to some extent. Ofcourse you can\'t force people to roleplay, but the devs seem to want to make roleplaying mandetory. Now in my opinion some mining and some tefusangslaying you can roleplay but the amount you need to be really good at something can\'t and that in my opinon is a huge flaw in the current system if you want to make roleplaying mandatory.

I also feel it\'s unfair to expect the guildleaders to demand roleplaying if the gamemechanics make it so that people are going to be running behind in skills and money. Guilds should be there to add something to the game to make making friends easier, to make people feel part of something. They should be there to add flavor to the roleplaying not to enforce it.

I consider myself more a roleplayer then a powerleveler at this time in Planeshift, but I started out the other way around and I know how it felt to roleplay more and see others max things while you weren\'t even halfway becuase you spend your time on roleplaying.

Ofcourse I made that choice and the roleplaying was satisfying but I still don\'t feel that you should have to make a real choice like that in a game where they make roleplaying mandatory.

[Einnol]

Originally posted by Pestilence
I consider myself more a roleplayer then a powerleveler at this time in Planeshift, but I started out the other way around

I think the vast majority start out this way simply because they \'do not know any better\'.  I did not completely understand role-playing when I first started.  I had only a general idea based on what I had read in the various guides and FAQ\'s on the website and forum.  Now I think of RP as sort of like an artform.  At first, you have to concentrate on \'trying\' to RP and \'learning\' to RP, but over time it becomes more natural and subconcious (and enjoyable).  

In my mind, I define a role-player as someone who does their best to stay IC no matter where they are or what they are doing.  I look at role-playing as sort of a life-style choice or a game-playing style if you will.  Not so much what you do in-game, but how you do it.  So, I don\'t think role-playing and increasing your character\'s experience, tria, skills, etc. are mutually exclusive.  I tend to think of possible things to do while I am in-game not as role-playing, hunting, or mining, but rather as RP\'ing while I am hunting, RP\'ing while I am mining, or RP\'ing while I am just standing around relaxing.  Role-playing can happen anywhere, not just the tavern or plaza.

Power levelers, on the other hand, are completely focused on obtaining the next better item so they can can kill the next higher creature so they can get the next bigger reward.  They usually give no thought to giving their character any more personality than that of a tin can.  Whether it takes them 6 months or 3 days to max every skill they possibly can may not make a big difference to them.  At that point they will probably stop playing thinking that they \'beat the game\' without ever realizing what they are missing out on, which is unfortunate.  Then, they will just be replaced by the next new PL\'er to come along.

Maybe this is an ultra-extreme example of how a power-leveler might act.  But, is there maybe a gray area?  What if someone wishes to role-play an ambitious, mighty warrior.  What if while swinging his sword he recounts detailed stories about his past.  Suppose he tells you that when he was a child his sister was murdered by a powerful, mighty rouge and now he is driven to become strong enough to seek revenge on that evil person.  Is he a power-leveler or a role-player?  Maybe it depends on how you define these terms.  Just food for thought.  

Just like you, I made the choice to RP and I have no regrets whatsoever.    Also, like you, my skills and stats could be much higher if I spent all my time IG working towards that goal.  But, by choice, I do not.  There have been times that I had planned on a little hunting or mining, but on my way ran into a friend who was perhaps on his wayt to the tavern to \'get a drink\'.  Perhaps he had something to celebrate and asked if I would like to join him, which I do.  This could mean that a couple hours later, I still have not hunted or mined anything.  Do I regret it?  No.  Was it worth it?  Yes.  Did I still have a good time?  Yes.  There will always be another time to hone my skills or earn a couple extra tria.  If that means that somebody else has a higher level skill or stat, then good for him.  It does not bother me.  As long as he is not standing in the plaza and shouting the fact that he has a 60 slash sword and a level 25 sword skill from the plaza (OOC\'ly) and impacting my RP experience, then I am happy for him.

I think you might agree that we both wish for the same thing, to see RP not only survive, but thrive as well.  How to go about this is a very complex and complicated issue.  Perhaps there is not one \'ultimate\' solution, but a combination of them.  Maybe there is no solution at all.  Maybe all we can do is try to show others how much fun it can be and hope that they enjoy it as well.  Without any new role-players, the existing ones will become a dying breed.  And that, in my opinion, would be a tragedy.

[Andrek]

Oh waaaa  Power levelers ruin my game....

SO now I my childish attitude has you attention

Let the levelers Level!  I think of most of them as the orcs or brutes who don\'t speak much.  I have gotten to know a few who are the strong and silent type.  Their character is just that, not worried aobout the politics and interaction with others.

One of them I met in the arena slowly opened up to me, granted I think that most of it was ooc when they started but they were still friendly and willing to talk a little.  It created more depth to their character, but still allowed them to level.

So let them...

As far as magic goes, I guess some day I will level some Char as far as I can with magic, this will make them a power leveler!  Awsome, but my main Menki will always be Kandrek... and too darned helpful to ever gain too many levels

[Shadowcast]

Why is everyone trying to stop pling. Youre not going to and there is no way of it. This thread has become too much on how to stop plers. It should be on how to make lvling easier on rpers.

When I started off, I had a weak attack, High spped and endurance, no mining, you get the picture. Now I made my character to roleplay, as a ranger. Now if I want to raise my stats to become a better ranger, then I HAVE to go and hunt monsters, and of course people are going to call this powerleveling. Well IMO its not, and what most people call pling is not either.

But I want to make it easier for the people who love to rp to have an easier time to raise their stats. We need a system allows them to become a better ranger, mage, warrior, ect. easier and allows them to base their character creation on what they want to become, not on fighting. Right now, to become a good whatever, youre character needs to be a good fighter to start with, otherwise youll have a hard time becoming good in something.

Right here and right now, everyone stop trying to get rid of plers, you cant, you wont, and no system can do that. Lets just concentrait on making this more newbie-friendly, and more rp-friendly.

[Andrek]

Originally posted by Shadowcast
Why is everyone trying to stop pling. Youre not going to and there is no way of it. This thread has become too much on how to stop plers. It should be on how to make lvling easier on rpers.

When I started off, I had a weak attack, High spped and endurance, no mining, you get the picture. Now I made my character to roleplay, as a ranger. Now if I want to raise my stats to become a better ranger, then I HAVE to go and hunt monsters, and of course people are going to call this powerleveling. Well IMO its not, and what most people call pling is not either.

But I want to make it easier for the people who love to rp to have an easier time to raise their stats. We need a system allows them to become a better ranger, mage, warrior, ect. easier and allows them to base their character creation on what they want to become, not on fighting. Right now, to become a good whatever, youre character needs to be a good fighter to start with, otherwise youll have a hard time becoming good in something.

Right here and right now, everyone stop trying to get rid of plers, you cant, you wont, and no system can do that. Lets just concentrait on making this more newbie-friendly, and more rp-friendly.

Agreed, I am sorry if my post came off as anti PLing.  Not inteded to. I don\'t like the fact that I have some chars I was to play with that cannot level due to their non-combantant styles.

[Shadowcast]

It wasnt youre post that is making me mad. In fact yours inspired me to post this. But most of this thread has been how to eliminate plers, and thats gone too far.

[Pestilence]

How to elimenate Powerlevelers? I don\'t see my solution as a way to elimenate them but a way to integrate them faster and also to get rid of the ones not interested in integrating yes.

If you think this is unfair well I am sorry but have you read any of the official posts lately. The devs are going to ENFORCE roleplaying. They started with the RMs and I hear there is a rule forbidding OOC talk at the plaza and the tavern already.

Now if the game has to go that way I don\'t want to see the game made that hard that it\'s impossible to play while keeping to the rules the devs might think of next.

[Dylia]

Originally posted by Pestilence
How to elimenate Powerlevelers? I don\'t see my solution as a way to elimenate them but a way to integrate them faster and also to get rid of the ones not interested in integrating yes.

Simply they will get rid of themselves. Funny that they either become bored of the game then leave  or become to abusive then banned from the game OR the make the choice to join the community in planeshift ^^ and have a wicked time getting to know everyone.

If you think this is unfair well I am sorry but have you read any of the official posts lately. The devs are going to ENFORCE role playing. They started with the RMs and I hear there is a rule forbidding OOC talk at the plaza and the tavern already.

Btw the RM\'s as they say on their post simply only enforced role play at their events not all throughout the game and they are doing a great job and I hope that they keep up the good work \\o/

Oringinally posted by Shadowcast
It wasnt youre post that is making me mad. In fact yours inspired me to post this. But most of this thread has been how to eliminate plers, and thats gone too far.

I do agree go back to topic on how to make progression points better and easier to get at in different ways. Most was about mining and how progression points could be raised for this. Also they might want to make the picks for mining worth nothing (eg like the ruby crystals) and have the rats or npc in the sewers drop them. That way there ia a semi- more easy way to get these things ^^
Or from the players side we could start a noob fund XD where we the players could buy picks for newbies (which btw I have done yes)
Come on people I know you can think of better ideas ^^

[white_slayer]

in the future progression points will probly be rplaced with something else anyways

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Pestilence
The devs are going to ENFORCE roleplaying. They started with the RMs and I hear there is a rule forbidding OOC talk at the plaza and the tavern already.

The RM and GM teams are being merged, by the way :>

As for a rule forbidding OOC conversation, that\'s quite unlikely. PlaneShift encourages roleplay, not enforces it.

[Shadowcast]

Originally posted by Dylia
Or from the players side we could start a noob fund XD where we the players could buy picks for newbies (which btw I have done yes)

And Thats probably the best, most sesible Idea weve had yet.

[Cha0s]

Hrmm... You seem a bit misinformed. There will be no enforcing of roleplay. However, event-running GMs will reward players for roleplay.

The key to solving this problem is the philosophy of it. The power-levelers don\'t want to kill stuff to be the most powerful they can be as fast possible, they just want to be the most powerful they can be as fast as possible, by any means necessary. If leveling through combat takes two times, three times, even four times longer than roleplaying to max stats, the power-levelers will roleplay to advance. And then they cease to be power-levelers, since they\'re roleplaying. I have seen this system applied, and let me tell you, it works. Those that don\'t have the patience to roleplay leave by their own choice, which works out just fine for those that are actually committed to roleplaying. Those power-levelers willing to roleplay become roleplayers. In short, pretty much everyone ends up happy.

[lanser]

Originally posted by Cha0s
Hrmm... You seem a bit misinformed. There will be no enforcing of roleplay. However, event-running GMs will reward players for roleplay.

slightly off topic but does that mean that in one has to take part in events in order to advance?

Because up till now I have had no wish to join in any of the events prefering to create and join in with player lead rp