WTF?

[ylikone]

Originally posted by BlackAcre
In a way, it\'s flattering people think of this as a released game.

Well, it\'s certainly not hidden away from the masses.  I have it on my Linux box and play it almost everyday.   So do many hundreds of other people.  And thousands have at least made accounts, even though they may not play.

If it look like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[DaveG]

Originally posted by ylikone
If it look like a duck and quacks like a duck...

That expression is only valid if looking like a duck and quacking like a duck are the only properties of a duck.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and has horns...  nope, not a duck.  

People expect bugs in modern games, as no one really bugtests commercial games anymore.  But, PS doesn\'t yet have the content needed to be considered a \"released game\".  However, if you consider the current version to be very good, I guess you\'ll love the \"released\".  

[Pestilence]

uhm if it has horns it hardly looks like a duck Dave

[Xordan]

Originally posted by Pestilence
uhm if it has horns it hardly looks like a duck Dave

Urr.. that\'s what he said....

[DaveG]

Ok... let\'s use a property that\'s not a child of \"looks\", say \"breathes fire\".  Now, it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, but it sure as hell ain\'t a duck.  Happy?  

[BrotherCaine]

I for one am very happy with the development team on this game.  Sure I\'d like notification of every niggling little change ( Sorry if I\'m trivializing the impact of the weapon wipe on people who actually had >10slash weapons ), but I\'ve worked on software projects where _paying_ clients weren\'t kept up to date on changes.  I know for most developers it\'s harder to communicate changes than it is to fix bugs ( which is also hard, especially in deployed software ).  I think given the resources the development team has that they are doing an excellent job just keeping the change log up to date.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Lazaro
You\'re being a tad obtuse.  You know that if he had known something was changed he might have approached it with more caution or tested on something easier first.  Or at least had an explanation when something went bad.

He did have an explanation - he simply had to go to the forums for it.

There are absolutely no guarantees, anywhere, that the NPCs you fight today will remain the same tomorrow. There are no  guarantees that they won\'t be replaced with weaker or stronger versions, that they won\'t change in what they drop, how they attack, etc. Everything should be approached with caution - in a way, because one presumes that your character would do so as well.

I would rather the forums be filled with \"WHAT HAPPENED?!!\" threads when something is tweaked, than have the server MOTD be changed constantly to add notes of every little adjustment.

Originally posted by Hermeneus
Wipes should be announced. Otherwise you wouldn\'t know if you lost your items or skills as a result of wipe or a bug or account-jacking.

Wipes will be announced after the fact.

[a19183]

Hello everyone,
from reading this thread and the replys from various persons
i learned the following:

- If you want to start playing and don\'t want to be suprised
by missing weapons changed stats and so on you have to
check all the forum first.

- If something happens that you don\'t like and you find
out that it was caused by something that the devs did
take a bite into your desk but don\'t complain.
It won\'t help anyway

- Server motd, or what they are called, can be ignored.
They aren\'t of much help anyway.

- one of the best solutions is to contact a player ingame and
ask whether he knows about any changes since the last time
you were playing.

One more thing about the changed fighting calcs,
it seems to me that all fights are rather quick nowadays.
I still hit most oponents hard but they also can kill me
pretty quick. Don\'t know why, and to be honest, i don\'t
care about. I will get around with that kind of fight also.
There is no way to understand the fight calcs anyway.
And not because of lack of intelligence but to the mere
fact that only devs know how they are calculated.
And i don\'t want to spend time with the experiment
of trying to find out by changing weapons or stats or armor.


Greets
Markus

[Bnm85]

Hmm, I\'ve been wondering about the \"pre-alpha/alpha\" label of PS myself lately. There are various places where PlaneShift is mentioned, with the comments of their own (for example, mmorpg.com). And most of the comments seem to be of the following nature:

\"Very ambitious and interesting concept. But they have been saying \'soon\' for years now and it\'s still not even in beta\"

People keep asking for a lot of graphical updates, especially unique player models for each race, and so on.

However, if you look at the \"HELP US\" page on the main site, you\'ll see the following:

Project Director: Luca Pancallo

2D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo

2D Members: [none]

2D WTB Members: Inca [still active, I think]
                              Moogie [gone for good]
                              Nanaki [active or not?]

3D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo

3D Members: [none]

3D WTB Members: Cherppow [still active, I think]

Background/Setting Leader: Darkmoon [active or not?]

Rules Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo

WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]

Engine Leader Client and Engine Leader Server seem to be doing good, with a good number of people working with each.

Music/Sounds Leader seems ok for now but with only a temporary leader.

Public Relation/Recruit Manager: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo

That\'s a large number of \"temporary assigned\". Can you see a single guy taking care of all those responsibilities that Luca has in a decent amount of time? Even if PS was his full-time job, I don\'t see how he could accomplish anything in a timely manner.

What\'s really surprising is why aren\'t more contributors interested in 2D and 3D positions on this project? Is it not being presented in the right way? Are people not interested? Not enough time for an ambitious project?

Luca has stated that people join the project because they often want to improve their portfolio or practice new skills. But a lot of the positions have been empty for a long time now, and barely even have any contributors.

It\'s not surprising at all that the updates are slow, and mostly have to do with the engine itself, where it seems to be in fairly good hands with the amount of people working on it.

Want new player and monster models soon? Unlikely.

Want better forest and new areas? Unlikely.

Not while Luca has to do it all alone.

I\'ve stopped hoping for new developments long ago, and am secretly trying to work on a certain contribution, which I will only suggest directly to Luca once it\'s completed, and not before then. However, I wish more people would apply for WTB Member or Contributor position. A lot of people playing seem to have talents for graphics art.

For example, what about Gentar? He seems to be interested in the art potion of the game. I wish he would join the team. What about Karyuu? She seems to like drawing and art as well. Why not join the 2D team? New textures for models and environment are always nice...

I don\'t know why this project is not attracting new members anymore. It has been out for years already. I wish they would drop the silly rule of fan contributions not being accepted if they\'ve already been posted on a forum.

Any thoughts on this?

[Xordan]

Originally posted by Bnm85
WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]

What do you mean \"I think\"....  X(

That page isn\'t kept totally up to date anyway, so there\'s people who\'re WTB but aren\'t on there. We also have prospects and such who do contribute but who aren\'t in the team yet, and so won\'t be on that page. As for department leaders.. Luca is temp leader for quite a few because we don\'t have anyone who\'s been around long enough to fulfill that role in those deps.... and being department leader is mainly organizing what\'s going to get done by the members. Luca doesn\'t make any of the models or areas all by himself. Delegation is a great thing. As for contributing... a lot of people apply, but either disappear for long periods, aren\'t up to doing the work, or just don\'t qualify.

[Bnm85]

Originally posted by Xordan

Originally posted by Bnm85
WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]

What do you mean \"I think\"....  X(

LoL! Well, I haven\'t been around when Moogie left, so I didn\'t want to state something as a fact until I was absolutely sure.

Good to know that more people are active and contribute than those listed on the site. Would be nice to see an update or a list of active contributors for a bit of inspiration.

[DaveG]

Originally posted by Bnm85
However, if you look at the \"HELP US\" page on the main site, you\'ll see the following:

Project Director: Luca Pancallo
2D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
2D WTB Members: Inca [still active, I think]
                              Moogie [gone for good]
                              Nanaki [active or not?]

Inca is new, Moogie is gone, and Nanaki is inactive, yes.

Originally posted by Bnm85
3D Graphics Leader: Temporary assigned to Luca Pancallo
3D WTB Members: Cherppow [still active, I think]

Cherppow is very much active.  

Originally posted by Bnm85
Background/Setting Leader: Darkmoon [active or not?]
WTB Member: Xordan [active, I think]

Darkmoon has been back recently, and Xordan is most certainly active.

Originally posted by Bnm85
Engine Leader Client and Engine Leader Server seem to be doing good, with a good number of people working with each.

We don\'t really have 2 seperate teams; it\'s just listed that way still.  Yes, this is where most of our progression is.

Originally posted by Bnm85
Music/Sounds Leader seems ok for now but with only a temporary leader.

Sound has progressed slowly in the past, but it should go faster now that we\'re switching to the new CS sound renderer.  Hopefully the first trouble-shooting technique won\'t be \"turn off sound\" anymore.  

Originally posted by Bnm85
That\'s a large number of \"temporary assigned\". Can you see a single guy taking care of all those responsibilities that Luca has in a decent amount of time? Even if PS was his full-time job, I don\'t see how he could accomplish anything in a timely manner.

No dissagreement here.

Originally posted by Bnm85
What\'s really surprising is why aren\'t more contributors interested in 2D and 3D positions on this project? Is it not being presented in the right way? Are people not interested? Not enough time for an ambitious project?

Luca has stated that people join the project because they often want to improve their portfolio or practice new skills. But a lot of the positions have been empty for a long time now, and barely even have any contributors.

It\'s not surprising at all that the updates are slow, and mostly have to do with the engine itself, where it seems to be in fairly good hands with the amount of people working on it.

Well, when most work is on the engine, there\'s not as much the art departments can do, yet.  There are new models and maps in the works, but yes, the pace is a bit slow.  No one can deny that.  I don\'t think that\'s a problem right now, and we should focus on getting the engine capable of handling everything it needs to, before worrying about what we put into it.

Originally posted by Bnm85
I\'ve stopped hoping for new developments long ago ...

Hopefully we can get this damn release out soon.

Originally posted by Bnm85
... and am secretly trying to work on a certain contribution, which I will only suggest directly to Luca once it\'s completed, and not before then. However, I wish more people would apply for WTB Member or Contributor position. A lot of people playing seem to have talents for graphics art.

Great!    Yes, many people don\'t think they can apply, I think.  If people want to contribute, they should apply.

Originally posted by Bnm85
For example, what about Gentar? He seems to be interested in the art potion of the game. I wish he would join the team. What about Karyuu? She seems to like drawing and art as well. Why not join the 2D team? New textures for models and environment are always nice...

I am not at liberty to discuss new applicants...

Originally posted by Bnm85
I don\'t know why this project is not attracting new members anymore. It has been out for years already. I wish they would drop the silly rule of fan contributions not being accepted if they\'ve already been posted on a forum.

One main problem is the inability to sort through it all.  We need some organized way to go through submissions, but as you\'ve already pointed out...  who would do that?  And, they would have to sign the art over to PS, which is one reason why they should become team members to do so.  (become paranoid for a second; we don\'t want takesy-backsies...)  At this point, the best method is to just require an aplication, instead of using the fan art forum.  People should just know that they are free to apply, and they will be considered.

[Bnm85]

Thanks for that reply, DaveG.

That is definitely encouraging, and I hope it encourages other readers with similar concerns/questions as well.

I hope more people will apply to join a team, so their work makes it into the game. Besides, if they ever feel like being on a team is not for them, they can always leave and become a regular player instead.

Looking forward to the new release *rubs hands with anticipation*