SCoY

[Dylia]

After reading though this whole thread I found it to be a waste of time after the first post. The reason why I have found this is simple as quoted to this sticky thread:

AendarCallenlasse Moderator[/color]
Apparently, in my absence, the Guilds Forum moderation has slipped a little bit. So since I have recently returned I\'ll start cleaning things up a bit. A few rules:

The Guild Forums are made specifically for guild creation, guild questions/information, and guild recruitment. It is not to announce which guild member called you a loser. I don\'t care.

The forums or for public viewing, which means if you need to get your point across to one specific person, use the pm function.

Inter-guild communication should be taken to the guilds\' own forums.

Flaming and spamming are not tolerated. If you don\'t know what constitutes flaming or spamming feel free to ask me. But keep in mind, I\'m the moderator, which means moderation is based on my definition.

I allow for two threads maximum per guild. One general thread and one recruitment thread. Any more than that will be deleted.


For those of you who haven\'t seen my method of moderating, please keep one thing in mind: I am better than you, which means my word is final.



And you older people will already know this, but as usual there is one loop-hole in my rules. And that is to simply worship me.

So with those said this is more of General Discussion My best suggestion is to karyuu and Easton.
@karyuu: move this... let people banter if they feel that this is an absolute must but let them have a guild thread where is serves the intent.
@Easton: if karyuu does this make a new thread to help inform people about SCoY because reading thought this thread took me about 2 and 1/2 hours which is kind of silly. No worries I know I can read the web site ^^

[Karyuu]

Aendar is a little demon with a mod stick when he\'s around, which can be great :P

I too think this needs to come to some sort of close, however. There is a lot of nitpicking, a strange lack of constructive criticisms, and overall the entire thread has become an argument between Janner and those who view SCoY in a more positive light.

I\'ve moved this to General Discussion, even though I no longer think that there is anything left to discuss. Easton is open for PMs, people are always open in-game for IC episodes, etc. Should there be a need for a new, better SCoY thread, the Guild Forum is open to you - as long as this mess will not be repeated. I would want to close this entirely, but as Dylia put it, feel free to banter on ;)

[Easton]

/me kisses Karyuu and Dylia\'s feet

Thank you.

We are working on a post for the guilds forum that will be for the purpose of explaining our stance on issues that we are presented with. I won\'t explain more here.. Just wait for it.. okay?

Trying his hardest,
Easton Ghent

[Sangwa]

I shall attempt to straighten this issue:

During a council with SCoY, Sengus, the Empire\'s negotiator, mentioned the Dark Empire\'s interest in being invited to the SCoY. However, never did he mention that the Empire did accept such an invitation.
This fact skipped the attention of the responsible of SCoY and triggered this situation.

Sengus should have reported to Setill, the responsible for the Dark Empire at that time, but something came up and he became unavaible. This contributed to the shock Setill felt when confronted with the news that surprised many as well. Some imperialists were outraged at this and so some of them attempted to resolve it in their way.

Obviously, the results of these attempts were not the most appropriate, since they were based on lack of information.
So, by Easton\'s request, I want to make it clear that Quitarias is not a spy and that the SCoY did not plot against the Empire. These assumptions were false, products of heated minds.

I\'d also like if the SCoY tried to judge the words of the future negotiators more thoroughly, in order to prevent this kind of issues from happening again. I know the Empire will attempt not to act this recklessly again.

For those of you less informed, The Dark Empire will not join SCoY despite the invitation it was granted.

Thank you,
Sangwa Raumo.


PS: Hey, no offending Zanzibar. You can insult him, but no offending!

[edit]Fixed a word[/edit]

[Easton]

Originally posted by Sangwa
I shall attempt to straighten this issue:

During a council with SCoY, Sengus, the Empire\'s negotiator, mentioned the Dark Empire\'s interest in being invited to the SCoY. However, never did he mention that the Empire did accept such an invitation.
This fact skipped the attention of the responsible of SCoY and triggered this situation.

Sengus should have reported to Setill, the responsible for the Dark Empire at that time, but something came up and he became unavaible. This contributed to the shock Setill felt when confronted with the news that surprised many as well. Some imperialists were outraged at this and so some of them attempted to resolve it in their way.

Obviously, the results of these attempts were not the most appropriate, since they were based on lack of information.
So, by Easton\'s request, I want to make it clear that Quitarias is not a spy and that the SCoY did not plot against the Empire. These assumptions were false, products of heated minds.

I\'d also like if the SCoY tried to judge the words of the future negotiators more thoroughly, in order to prevent this kind of issues from happening again. I know the Empire will attempt not to act this recklessly again.

For those of you less informed, The Dark Empire will not join SCoY dispite the invitation it was granted.

Thank you,
Sangwa Raumo.


PS: Hey, no offending Zanzibar. You can insult him, but no offending!

There is very little we disagree with here. A bit of variation, but that is to be expected. I\'m glad we could work this out before it got too out of hand. Hopefully, this proves something to the public about the council and its effectiveness. While we regret your decision not to join, we still hope someday the DE will be a member.

Stay Safe,
Easton Ghent

[r.guppy]

I was completely stunned to get a /tell from a GM [who I have a great deal of respect for] trying to sort out our differences. This is not on..GMs have enough to do.. without sorting out our differences..

 I am sorry for the GM to have been put in such a position.

  I don\'t see why you are so desperate to get my support; after that stunt, NO.


 This color is to show how low I feel you have sunk to get your way, and I won\'t bother posting in this thread again.

[Easton]

The Gm contacted me. I had no hand in getting that GM into this by any means. They were brought into it by a mistake apparently. And yes, i told that GM that i felt this was not GM territory, but it was explained to me that it very well could be. So, i figured there was no harm in a GM looking into things. I still generally disagree with the GM involvement, but i certainly did not bring them into this.

Easton Ghent

[Sangwa]

I think r.guppy should change his name to \"m.grumpy\"

Come on, lighten up.

[Peacer]

Originally posted by Araye
I can\'t believe it, but I agree with Zanzibar on this.  It should be roleplayed to the fullest and not discussed here.

Easton and Janner:  you two are/were friends.  You should not let a roleplay interfere with that friendship.  I realize that Easton has put a lot of thought into this and only has good intentions and is now intimately \"involved\" with those ideas/ideals. But Easton must remember, this is a roleplay too and that everyone isn\'t just going to say, \"that Easton, he\'s a real good bloke, where do I signup?\".  Even if they personally \"know\" you.  We\'re \"acting\" and you must convince them by acting.

Janner, you should realize his attachment and give him a little space to breathe.  You (Easton) need to be less critical of Janner for his oppinions as you asked for them.  And Janner, please have the \"character Janner\" bring these issues forward in game.  Easton has given you an invitation to attend one.  Take him up on it.  Raise the fuss there.  I do agree that from the outside, the SCoY could appear to have some sinister/secretive/elitist look and feel.  So roleplay it and don\'t personally attack your friend OOC.

You two have a lot of passion for your ideas and that is commendable.  It\'s good to have vision and the guts to attempt to put those ideas into action.  But you don\'t have to make this into a real life argument, because it isn\'t.  I\'m a little disappointed to have seen Easton finally \"loose it\" with Janner.  I\'m sure Easton was/is very hurt and feels personally betrayed by his friend.  But, when you get to that point...  take a step back and remember, we\'re playing a game.

Even if it turns out to be a huge mistake and failure, it will have been a fun (remember that word?) experience.  So let the opposing guilds show up and demand answers...  That would be awesome!  Vision people, vision!

******************************

On the other side I would like to thank Easton for putting the SCoY together.  I think we (the characters of PS) need a council like this.  I would also like to thank both Janner and Anfa for bringing to light why guilds with a similar \"mission statement\" as the SCoY may oppose the SCoY.  I hadn\'t seen their side before and I didn\'t consider their input before I became an ambassador.  Not that it would have changed my mind, but I like to have as much information as possible before making a commitment to something.

I look forward to seeing the outcome of this idea.  I do hope the disagreements can be resolved and the SCoY fulfill it\'s mission.  But however it goes down, let it do so IN GAME!

Araye

EDIT: at Zorbels, this post is OOC and the point of it is that it must be \"rp\'d in game\"

that sounds like something i could have said... but i didn\'t knew janner and easton very well, only their names but not their stance with eachother as friends...

@easton: sorry to say this but your last post kinda lay up to a big discussion again... correct me if i am wrong but it seems to me like it is going to be again... unless janner does what he says.

@eolius/zansibar: Peacer walks to the people eating popcorn with three bunches and gives 2 of them to zanzibar and eolius \"here you go now you can stop fighting about the popcorns [made me laugh ]\"

@zorbels: agrees... i have misunderstood the SCoY\'s mission too... and what they are here for...

@easton: would be nice if following zorbels\'s suggestion with the a b and c\'s

zorbels: hey 5-year olds can have some pretty interesting to say ... like \"when i grow up i am going to buy chocolate\" no forget what i just said and hit me with a stick ...

/me sees what he just posted and thinks he needs to sleep

[Easton]

Originally posted by Peacer
@easton: sorry to say this but your last post kinda lay up to a big discussion again... correct me if i am wrong but it seems to me like it is going to be again... unless janner does what he says.

I disagree.

[Kerol]

OK whatever. It was my intention to get this difference between Janner and the SCoY settled without interference from outside, from people who appearantly are not involved.
It was _not_ my intention to make anybody *points at Janner* agree with somebody else *points at Easton*.
It\'s really sad that you (all) are appearantly unable to solve this thing in a productive way.

I tried to mediate between both parties as it is my duty also to care for the community. I won\'t watch idle as you bang your heads against each others and disturb the whole community with your little quarrel >:-/

And Janner: This is an OOC issue. I\'d think twice to interfere if this was IC. I\'m not taking anybodies position here, I just want to get this problem solved in any way.

[r.guppy]

Originally posted by Kerol
OK whatever. It was my intention to get this difference between Janner and the SCoY settled without interference from outside, from people who appearantly are not involved.
It was _not_ my intention to make anybody *points at Janner* agree with somebody else *points at Easton*.
It\'s really sad that you (all) are appearantly unable to solve this thing in a productive way.

I tried to mediate between both parties as it is my duty also to care for the community. I won\'t watch idle as you bang your heads against each others and disturb the whole community with your little quarrel >:-/

And Janner: This is an OOC issue. I\'d think twice to interfere if this was IC. I\'m not taking anybodies position here, I just want to get this problem solved in any way.

 IN light of this post i retract my last post.

 In plane my objections to SCoY are the wording in your web page, in my opinion is misleading and would suggest you re think them. that is all if you do or don\'t is up to you good luck.

[Eolius]

Originally posted by r.guppy
I was completely stunned to get a /tell from a GM [who I have a great deal of respect for] trying to sort out our differences. This is not on..GMs have enough to do.. without sorting out our differences..

 I am sorry for the GM to have been put in such a position.

  I don\'t see why you are so desperate to get my support; after that stunt, NO.


 This color is to show how low I feel you have sunk to get your way, and I won\'t bother posting in this thread again.

Nobody is desperate to get your support. We just want you to come up withsome REAL, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism if you are able to, or if not, to stop analising every word on the scoy website and interpret all the sentences there so that you can get something to trow at us.

/me points to the post above and quotes \"I won\'t bother posting in this thread again.\" Hehe, caught you.

@Anfa If you really think that a council is something elected by the people of a town, learn some english (i\'m not a native english speaker but i know that the aforementioned isn\'t the definition of the word \"council\" )

[Anfa]

Originally posted by Eolius

@Anfa If you really think that a council is something elected by the people of a town, learn some english (i\'m not a native english speaker but i know that the aforementioned isn\'t the definition of the word \"council\" )

Okay I\'m confused...

When did I ask for the definition of a council recently?

Or offered a definition of a council recently?

But since you mentioned it here\'s one definition..

Main Entry: coun?cil
Pronunciation: \'kaun-s&l
Function: noun
: a governmental body: as a : a group elected as a legislative body b : an administrative body c : an executive body whose members are equal in power and authority ?compare

and another...

Main Entry: 1coun?cil
Pronunciation: \'kaun(t)-s&l
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English counceil, from Old French concile, from Latin concilium, from com- + calare to call -- more at LOW
1 : an assembly or meeting for consultation, advice, or discussion
2 : a group elected or appointed as an advisory or legislative body
3 a : a usually administrative body b : an executive body whose members are equal in power and authority c : a governing body of delegates from local units of a federation
4 : deliberation in a council
5 a : a federation of or a central body uniting a group of organizations b : a local chapter of an organization

Hope that helps

Cheers
Anfa

edit note: I personally have thought my english has been quite good throughout this thread..and that I have learnt enough to be able to get my point across..but thanks for the advice!

[Eolius]

Originaly posted by Eolius

 
Originally posted by r.guppy  

Also the Council is a word that implies that you are elected from the people of a town, and before you go into it also means this or that, i am pointing out most will see it the same as me.  

 Funny that nobody see it the same as you. I see no posts sustaining your point of view. \"Council\" doesn\'t imply that \"we are elected from the people of a town\", the word \"council\" actually means \"-A formally constituted advisory, deliberative, or administrative body. (Origin: from Latin \"concilium\" = convocation, assembly)\". Unless those that wrote the Oxford English dictionary know less than you...     Oh, btw, the colours of your post are nice though...

At this oppinion you replyed:

Originaly posted by Anfa

Originally posted by Eolius    

Funny that nobody see it the same as you. I see no posts sustaining your point of view.        

 Sorry, I have been letting my views be known in game...didn\'t realize you wanted me to post them here..     If you want me to post my objections to SCoY in this thread let me know...     Anfa waves at Janner

If you re-read the whole thing you\'ll see that the definition of the word \"council\" was discused there and what i ment was that Janner got that definition confused.
The fact that you agree with Janner and suport his \"objections to SCoY \" wasn\'t the point there.

Edit: As a conclusion, unrelated to my words above, I wonder why, everytime somebody tryes to build something, there will be some narowminded person, or a group of people that tryes to destroy things. You don\'t like SCoY? It is perfectly fine, don\'t join. SCoY, unlike what some people want to think, will never interfere with you. If at some point we\'ll cross paths, there will be no action taken for you or against you, just dialogue. SCoY isn\'t ruling anybody and SCoY isn\'t trying to destroy guilds or individuals (like some people using alot of exclamation marks want to think). SCoY is just there to try and mediate conflicts. It has been stated before in this thread that those posting thoughts against SCoY are doing \"constructive criticism\"... Well, the form of constructive criticism is \"1)I don\'t like this\", \"2) I would have done this if I was you\", \"3) This is my ideea to fix things\". So far i\'ve only seen threats and stuff like \"I don\'t like this\". But not a single ideea to improve this organisation. So, please, be constructive because that is the difficult part.