Author Topic: Stealing Idea  (Read 3244 times)

Kendaro

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« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2003, 08:20:28 am »
And if they succede? Then the player who was stolen from is SOL with no way to retaliate from this attack on his character. It will not work.

FMiddy

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« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2003, 08:59:21 am »
thats why ya put locks on your doors and they make it hard to break into a house, whats the point in being a thief if ya cant go for the real prize once you get skilled enough, more realism, more excitement. More whining? oh well... just ignore them...
Name: Frankuuu
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kinshadow

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« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2003, 10:25:51 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Kendaro
Since there is no PvP system other than guild wars, arenas, and dueling there will be no steeling from players.


Thus, (as Estafan mentioned earlier) it would make since you could steal from a rival guild member.  The opponent could respond in force if you are caught.

Rakeleer

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« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2003, 01:54:25 pm »
Sad, but true.

There\'s no point in including any sort of thievery if the plan is to  go entirely impotent on the PvP side.
Grub first, then ethics.

Kiern

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« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2003, 04:28:38 pm »
uh...if their not caught then no one will know it was them and they get away, how exactly would they retailiate even with PvP?

And what if you find them stealing, it sort of acts like the guild war thing except it does not matter if the thief agrees or not and the guy that catches him can easily kill him...there could also be ways the people can protect their things using magic, making it even more difficult
« Last Edit: February 09, 2003, 04:29:50 pm by Kiern »

Valfaran

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« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2003, 06:50:07 pm »
I think it would just be easiest to be able to steal from NPC\'s only. Then, going along with the Reputation thing, if you stole from a Temple Guard and got noticed, other Temple Guards might knock you around a little.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2003, 06:50:31 pm by Valfaran »

kinshadow

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« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2003, 08:07:21 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by Kiern
uh...if their not caught then no one will know it was them and they get away, how exactly would they retailiate even with PvP?


Thus, the benefit of being a thief.  The rival would strive not to let the other person get that close (possibly killing him beforehand ) or booby trapping his own gear to deter thieves.

Quote
Originally posted by Kiern
And what if you find them stealing, it sort of acts like the guild war thing except it does not matter if the thief agrees or not and the guy that catches him can easily kill him...there could also be ways the people can protect their things using magic, making it even more difficult


Perhaps the whole definition of \"guild war\" is at question.  I was taking it as the traditional UO definition in that you can openly PK (and in this case steal from) any member of an opposing guild.  Both guild leaders have to consent to the \"declaration of war\", but after that there is no more \"consent\".  Thus, the victim of the theft could have killed the thief at any moment anyway.  Only the cunningness and skills of the thief will allow him to get close enough to act.


Kiern

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« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2003, 08:46:39 pm »
I was not talking about if they were already in a guild war, I\'m talking about what my original post was about (wow)

It would not work if oyu could only steal from people you were in a war with....what about people who like to play solo rogues?  that would be a huge disadvantage and may cause them to join a guild when they really don\'t want to

FMiddy

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« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2003, 10:11:24 pm »
there was a whole other thread on this not too long ago, Ill be right back with it...
*goes off to find the thread*

*runs back in*
ok heres one Venge was very active in:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=1996&boardid=11&page=1

and heres where a PK thread slowly got turned into a thread about theivery with some really good ideas :D:
http://www.planeshift3d.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=2426&boardid=11
« Last Edit: February 09, 2003, 10:16:04 pm by FMiddy »
Name: Frankuuu
Race: Dermorian Elf
Chosen Path: Warrior
Alignment: Neutral
Guild: N/A
Location: Yliakum

I fight for my destiny, if yours crosses mine, the only outcome is for me to prevail, whether you live or not depends on if you get in my way...

Rakeleer

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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2003, 11:33:06 pm »
Pheonix\'s point in one of those threads was, that without any balancing factor, in a skill based system, everyone will be a thief because it\'s a major advantage (nevermind that you can\'t steal from players in a game that allows no PvP).

In that case, I\'d suggest the penalty for being a thief....

Perma death.

If you are a known criminal, and you are caught and killed, you don\'t come back.

Something like EQ\'s original \'Dischord\' system would be good.

Scenario:

I am a rogue.  I decide to steal from a player.
After toggling the \"Do you know what you\'re doing\" notice off, I do the dirty deed.

I am not caught.

An hour later, the player realizes something was stolen from him.  A great wailing and gnashing of teeth is heard in the Stone Labyrinth.

I steal from another player, but this time, I\'m caught.  The game brands me somehow as a \'criminal\'.

From that time forward, I can be attacked be anyone, and if I die, death is permenant, and my corpse will be lootable.


Of course, there are multitudes of problems with that system, but it would certainly be a deterrant to casual thieves.

A karma system would be good too.

B ut honestly, all this code for something the devs don\'t seem to want in the first place?  I don\'t see it happening, so I won\'t waste anymore thought on it.

Oh, and I won\'t be playing an impotent rogue, either. ;)
Grub first, then ethics.

Kiern

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« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2003, 12:06:08 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Rakeleer
B ut honestly, all this code for something the devs don\'t seem to want in the first place?  I don\'t see it happening, so I won\'t waste anymore thought on it.



no no no, thats what the wish list is for...who knows what they wil be able to do or will not be able to do.  More devs will come and others will leave, so nothing is sure on what they will want and do not want...so offering ideas that they don\'t want right now can be of use later, or provide something they have not thought of before which might change their minds (or give me something to argue with)

As long as it is not the same idea over and over

Rakeleer

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« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2003, 12:27:12 am »
Well I, for one, do not buy into the idea that NOT including PvP will eliminate or sufficiently reduce griefers.

And I don\'t believe EQ\'s success comes from the lack of PvP.
Grub first, then ethics.

kinshadow

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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2003, 01:13:16 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Kiern
I was not talking about if they were already in a guild war, I\'m talking about what my original post was about (wow)


I was offering a middle ground for the discussion and taking your reply in the same context that I replied to Kendaro\'s post on the general subject of stealing (to which I assume you were replying).  Stealing from homes could be dealt with in the same way.  Rogues could booby trap their guild houses and only other opposing rogues could (at great risk to themselves) venture into these abodes.

Quote
Originally posted by Kiern
It would not work if oyu could only steal from people you were in a war with....what about people who like to play solo rogues?  that would be a huge disadvantage and may cause them to join a guild when they really don\'t want to


Thus, a disadvantage (or trade-off) for being a rogue.  \"Thieves Guilds\" are very popular in Fantasy. Open thievery could be possibly unbalancing issue, so restricting it to guild war (and guild owned houses) is not outrageous in my opinion.  Also, mercenaries could be hired to guard guild houses when the guild members themselves can not be around.






Quote
Originally posted by Rakeleer
Pheonix\'s point in one of those threads was, that without any balancing factor, in a skill based system, everyone will be a thief because it\'s a major advantage (nevermind that you can\'t steal from players in a game that allows no PvP).


That depends on how the implement the skill system.  If you have an overall skill cap or\" the higher you are in one skill, the rest suffer from diminishing returns\", then the disadvantage of having the steal skill is that it hurts your other abilities.  This combined with some restricted usage (i.e. safe zones and/or only guild war, etc.) would provided enough balance IMO.  I think \'perma death\' is a bad solution in any cases.






FMiddy

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« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2003, 01:20:19 am »
ok, my idea was to have a wanted level, if you steal from someone and they know it was you they go and report you to a guard, then a point is added to their wanted to level, and maybe you could give the guard some money to add to the guys bounty, then people could go out and find him and bring him to the arena where justice will be served on him, then he could possibly be jailed and/or have some of his items/money taken and given to the victims for repayment, and then if they find out where his hideout is, they could hire another thief to pick his lock so they could get there stuff back.  I was also looking for a KO system instead of a PK system or nothing at all, its one of the first posts in the PK thread, read it if you want.
Name: Frankuuu
Race: Dermorian Elf
Chosen Path: Warrior
Alignment: Neutral
Guild: N/A
Location: Yliakum

I fight for my destiny, if yours crosses mine, the only outcome is for me to prevail, whether you live or not depends on if you get in my way...

Kiern

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« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2003, 02:21:08 am »
Quote
Originally posted by kinshadow

Thus, a disadvantage (or trade-off) for being a rogue.  \"Thieves Guilds\" are very popular in Fantasy. Open thievery could be possibly unbalancing issue, so restricting it to guild war (and guild owned houses) is not outrageous in my opinion.  Also, mercenaries could be hired to guard guild houses when the guild members themselves can not be around.



so, basically people would have to create a theives guild and make war with every guild there is just to be able to steal from someone, and what if their target was not even in a guild? Seems just as complicated as the other way