[IDEA] The Council of Darkness

[Phinehas]

Ah, but being able to cling on to what everyone thinks is a bad idea despite public opinion, and make it work is what makes a true pillar of the community. Look at Sangwa, for instance.

[tssthorn]

I really do not know ... everyone seems to say there should be more evil guilds and such in PS well most do and yet it's just way to hard to do. Cause every evil guild has somthing in common ... there goals, how to RP evil because pretty much going around doing what evil people do is just not evil enouph for everyone. I really do not know where i should go from here ... pretty much what i gatherd is the whole idea is not that great. In my eye's a demon ... well there is no such things and it's just more of a way to describe somone that's evil ... I mean tryed to explain it in a way of how say indian tribes got there names .. like tiger of the lan or somthing .. doesn't necissarly mean the guy is a tiger lo. I guess it just really depends on the way you look at things ... Also I made the story him becoming evil after opening the chest out of curiousity asif he released evil ... I guess your right about it not being original .. but who says it will not make a great RP type guild? I mean that's all I was going for was to give a ense of more evil in PS and more RP ... wasn't going for making it perfect with the ranks and passed story. Don't think the story is to bad anyway.

[Sangwa]

The thing is, you shouldn't create a guild for evil's sake. Having "be evil" as a goal is hollow.

PS's setting should be more focused on interest based divergencies instead of a battle of good versus evil.
You can create a guild of religious priests that advocate a religion that believes in the redemption of souls by throwing them into the Death Realm and making them live there. It should have some logic. It's a priests' guild, and their objective is to make people live pure lives in a pure place. At least that would be their thinking.
Of course, if PS had other stable guilds, you should create divergences with other guilds that needed workers and wouldn't find it funny to have part of the population living in the Death Realm because of some priests. You would be evil in the eyes of the other guilds and yet you would not be going around shouting how evil you are.

It's really not realistic to go around being evil. People don't choose to be evil, at least not smart people. They have goals, and those goals (insane or not) interfere with the lives of others who then deem them evil. You can't be evil because you say you are. You're evil when other people say you are (as moral belongs in the superego.) That should be the part of evil people should try to exploit.

Concluding, to come out bluntly and say "We are evil. Look at us while we're at it." looks ridiculous. And that's what you do when you go around saying "Join my evil guild, let us do evil" and things of the sort. The real originality is doing your guild, making its structure fit PS's and the guild setting and then, through your actions, acquire such a rating. You do not ask or demand people to play along. They should have no choice but to witness it.

[ramlambmoo]

It's really not realistic to go around being evil. People don't choose to be evil, at least not smart people. They have goals, and those goals (insane or not) interfere with the lives of others who then deem them evil. You can't be evil because you say you are. You're evil when other people say you are (as moral belongs in the superego.) That should be the part of evil people should try to exploit.

Thats like saying people dont choose to be good.  Who says people dont choose to be evil?  Thats your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but you cant speak for other people.  Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others.  I agree that it looks more authentic and immersive if there's a solid backstory, but you cant say that people dont just want to be evil for the sake of it.

On topic, I am firmly of the opinion that it takes a very solid and committed leadership to make an evil guild like this work.  There are many traps and many ways for it to not work, and I fail to see how you will avoid them.  My main suggestion to sucess would be to Roleplay 'evil' characters for a while and let the Guild form from that.  Get a feel for it first, and the backstory and Guild will come naturally.  You cant set out to form a guild based on something you havent yet done.

[zanzibar]

Another evil guild?

There are no other evil guilds.  There are ideas for them, but, no truly evil guilds that I have seen.

Evil characters, yes.

I've seen a few evil guilds in my time.  A lot of them seem to be secret.

Firstly - it really makes no sense. Are you guys trying to get revenge? Fill the world with hate? Why? Your character doesn't have any hatred, it was just "given" to him, and he doesn't really have anything to hate.

That just means it's more pure.




I don't think people choose to be good, or choose to be evil.  People do what they think is right.  It's just that people often disagree on what the right thing to do is.

[Anfa]

Thats like saying people dont choose to be good.  Who says people dont choose to be evil?  Thats your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but you cant speak for other people.  Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others.  I agree that it looks more authentic and immersive if there's a solid backstory, but you cant say that people dont just want to be evil for the sake of it.

That would also depend on your definition of evil...pooping in the quench tank does not make one evil..it makes one crude and obnoxious. Big difference! I have met alot of people in rl who have never learnt "common courtesy" but that does not make them evil. I always wondered why some people equate rude, crude, foul mouthed and obnoxious to evil?? Many who have been marked as "evil" in our real world have been described by neighbours as "the polite quiet nice man who lived next door and never bothered anyone!!" "I can't believe HE would do something like that??"

Taking in to account some of the events going on in the real world recently and in the past, do we truly know "the face of evil"?

IMHO, Evil is not what you do, but how others perceive your actions. If enough get together to oppose your thinking and feel threatened by your actions, than shall you be named "Evil"

Many of History's "most Evil" were not thought of as evil by their followers, and truly does that make them the greatest threat!

That there be a method to your madness and a "good reason" to justify your actions, that is the way to go. And please...

stop pooping in the quench tank...not amusing!! 

[Einnol]

Many who have been marked as "evil" in our real world have been described by neighbours as "the polite quiet nice man who lived next door and never bothered anyone!!" "I can't believe HE would do something like that??"

Excellent point.  It really comes down to perception.  You can't simply declare yourself as evil.  Others have to perceive your actions as 'evil'.  And if this 'evil' is hidden by a visage of 'normalcy', then it becomes much more interesting.  It is more subtle and more of a surprise when the 'evil within' is revealed.  Plus, it is much more realistic and believable than just openly declaring to everyone 'I am evil.'.

Also, in my opinion, trying to classify everything or everybody as 'black or white', 'right or wrong', or 'good or evil' is a bit simplistic.  Things are almost never that absolute.  I guess it is more like 'shades of gray'.  As I see it, having a blend of personality traits makes for a more interesting character.  The same basic idea can also be applied to a guild as well.

[Sangwa]

"Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others." That is not the same as being evil. In medival times torturers worked for the king, and weren't seen as evil, since they punished the prisonners. I am referring to the definition of evil as something morally wrong. In order for something to be morally wrong it has to involve other people as moral standards depend on society. Therefore you can not be evil by yourself. Or you can, but then only to yourself.
This means there is no such thing as an evil character that has not be seen as evil by anyone. It means those characters are ridiculous, not evil.

So if you create a character/guild that has had no interaction with any society whatsoever and you yourself claim it to be evil, then you are wrong. You're whatever people think of you. If your guild for instance manages to wipe out obstacles for mine, I won't consider you evil.

Concluding, what I mean is that people in the creation of their guild should make it a realistic thing. Not something it is not. So, at the genisis of the guild, you create the gears that will plunge your guild into evil. You don not simply make it evil without any sense.

Let me add that this is not an alignment discussion. This discussion is about creating guilds in the right conditions, and the above text attempts merely to bear a vision that enforces realism in PS and therefore meets its setting.

[zanzibar]

I see torturers as pretty damned evil, whether they're working for a king named Louie or a president named Cheney Bush.

[Sangwa]

That is _your_ opinion though. There should be alot more of them. That is part of my point. Those who gaze at things should decide. It is what happens objectivily, despite the subjective thoughts of all.

[tssthorn]

Alright, I changed a few things, im not going to say the guild is evil despite what it says in the first post ... but it just is giving the idea of how the person should act ... like destroy all hate and darkness ... Not sure but just replace the evil words with somthing else lol. Tell me what you think now. Also just so you know the whole story isn't there ... I would rather most of it be in game ... so before you question somthing .. think to yourself could that question come up in game. KK. Such as im going to say that Swivles didn't just magically become this way ... there is more to it then that ... but thats what adds to the guild is things you have to find out for yourself ... by spying or doing what ever just have fun lol.

[ramlambmoo]

"Maybe some characters just gain pleasure from causing harm to others." That is not the same as being evil. In medival times torturers worked for the king, and weren't seen as evil, since they punished the prisonners. I am referring to the definition of evil as something morally wrong. In order for something to be morally wrong it has to involve other people as moral standards depend on society. Therefore you can not be evil by yourself. Or you can, but then only to yourself.
This means there is no such thing as an evil character that has not be seen as evil by anyone. It means those characters are ridiculous, not evil.

If you define evil as being against the opinions of society, then you could still set out to do that- what If you wanted to be against the opinions of everyone else?  What if you wanted everybody to hate you?  Then, wouldnt you want to be evil?  If, your character has a reason to desire a majority of people to dislike you, then, according to your definition, you your character has a reason to be evil.  Now you might think that nobody would want people to hate them, but there are reasons and advantages to be gained from it.  It's entirely plausible that somebody could have an ulterior motive for having a majority of people dislike them.

Having said that, I dont think thats what most guilds/characters mean or are looking for when they say they are 'evil'.  But, saying your character is 'evil' could then be an awknowledgement that 'I think alot of people wont be happy with what I do; Thats ok with me'. 

You seem to have the perception that everything is subjective and merely opinions of others, but I think that 'evil' characters are going to behave instinctively in a different manner to 'good' players.  If the society has a clear set of morals and expectations that it follows, you could confidently predict that your character will be labelled 'evil' from their actions; therefore why not state that beforehand?  Its a trueism to say "Characters will do what they perceive to be best" but I think the evil characters care less about other's opinions, and inherently have less respect for other characters then 'good' characters do.  So I think there is still a measure of objectiveness about whether a character is good or evil.

So if you create a character/guild that has had no interaction with any society whatsoever and you yourself claim it to be evil, then you are wrong. You're whatever people think of you. If your guild for instance manages to wipe out obstacles for mine, I won't consider you evil.

If you're werent interacting with society, then you're not doing anything against other characters, and so It would be impossible to be evil in the first place in any sense.  Its assumed that any character or guild in the Planeshift world is going to interact with it.

[Phinehas]

Sangwa's right here, so you can all stop arguing with him.

Tssthorn, I think you're kind of in over your head. Do you really know what you're doing? This isn't criticism, I'm just wondering how much you're doing what you think is what you should be doing, and how much you're just doing what everyone tells you to do.

[ramlambmoo]

Sangwa's right here, so you can all stop arguing with him.

Thanks for your opinion.

Tssthorn, I think you're kind of in over your head. Do you really know what you're doing? This isn't criticism, I'm just wondering how much you're doing what you think is what you should be doing, and how much you're just doing what everyone tells you to do.

Agreed- I also think he's in over his head.  Creating a guild like this straight off wouldnt be an easy task for anybody.  Thats why I suggested you merely roleplay for a bit and then get a feel for what the guild should be like- focus on what you do in game first, and then let the guild flow from that.  You have a much better chance of sucess that way.

[tssthorn]

Again I am not new and I am not in way over my head. I have been the leader of two guilds so far .... look I do not have to explain myself. I have been playing for nearley a year now ... I think I can handle this. "Let's all look at her post count and go by that to see if she is new" .... or maybe just cause of my name and you never seen it in PS. Maybe I don't go by the same name as I do on the fourms ... obviously.