Weapons prices since quality was introduced.

[bilbous]

Well of course I was waxing philosophical and not expecting a revolution in usage.

As I said I have used both those weapons to get to where I can fight almost anything with normal weapons. I do feel a little dirty but practically speaking it is the only thing to do.

I just wish I could have repaired my sword before the degradation set in as it will very likely lose several points of max quality to repair it maximally. It is very likely going to take 3 repair sessions to max it so it will be reduced to 47/47 quality. Of course by then it might be removed from the game.

[Datruth]

A couple points I want to make at least one will not be appreciated. I would not pay 50k for the best sword and now that they decay they are worth even less. As far as I am concerned using a silverweave short sword or an iron axe or any of the weapons that are overslash should be considered abusing a bug as it has been reported on these forums that they are not meant to have such high ratings. These reports were in answer to posts asking if the low slash iron and silverweave weapons were bugged. Therefor there should be no market for these weapons and they should be sold only to the npc's just like the other bugged and excessive requirement weapons that can't be used.

I have to admit I have an iron battleaxe and an iron mailed longsword of stone. I use the axe now and then but because the sword is irreparable at currently achievable repair skill I do not use it. I am not sure it is an example of an overslash weapon as it is 8.8 but I would be prepared to give it up if it was so designated. The axe at 10 slash is most probably an example of this kind of bugged weapon.

The Silverweave weapons take up a Niche that we have.
That Niche is strongest weapons that kill with one hit.

Take them away, and the Iron Weapons take it's place, with their /8 Values.
The prices for the silverweaves would simply fall to the irons.

It would literally make no difference, other than IRON taking the Niche of the Silverweave.
And iron hits really really hard too, it's also a 1 hit kill.
So i don't know why you would say they are better than the silverweave.

Even if the silvers have higher point values, Both hit and kill 95% of the time on 1 strike.

To me, they're both equal.
To get rid of one, would be to get rid of the other as well.

But no matter what, the Highest Slashes, will always take over this niche, and keep Prices High, with this exception:
If they get rid of all weapons Higher than /4, than we'd have such a high supply of those weapons, that their prices wouldn't be higher than 20k each.

So if you truly want to get rid of this "overpoweredness"( lol my new word), and ability to kill seamingly always with 1 hit, ASK the devs to get rid of weapons with slash 4 and higher.

If that measure isn't taken, then getting rid of silverweaves alone does nothing, and you are ol.k with this quote "overpowerdness".

It's hard to say what is exactly a bug in terms of weapons and loot and what isn't. Moreover it's even harder to try to enforce anything. We are all expecting a major wipe in the future, so I wouldn't worry about the economy as it is now, in terms of "this isn't supposed to be happening." That will be fixed with the next DB cleaning.

That's not true, there are no plans for a wipe yet, and the details of any said wipe haven't been discussed.

I don't think saying it's the answer to all our problems, when all aspects of it haven't been decided yet, could be fault proof.

Hey Aryhann, i just had a question

Is there any word on when or if the character wipe will happen?

Will we even have the option of saving guilds or items?

Is there any info at all about this or is this all pure speculation at this point?

~~Datruth

Hi Datruth,

I have no clue about any project for a character wipe. I haven't heard it in a long long time.

Most probably, there will be a future implementation of saving guilds and item, but I don't think it is in a plan for a close future.

Nothing official, that I know.

Regards,
AryHann

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

But we do have a plan for a wipe :] It goes something like this: "Plan for wipe." It's planned. When is it going to happen? We don't know. Will it happen? Absolutely. Do we have a To-Do List full of specific things that need to be done before a wipe? No. We just know that it will be done, because it's inevitable. Ask Ary.

As for it being the "answer to all our problems," all a wipe is is the cleaning of the slate after several fixes and balances have been done. So no, it's not the answer in and of itself. I brought it up to say that worrying about weapon slashes not being as they are meant to be right now and it affecting the economy isn't an issue.

[Datruth]

But we do have a plan for a wipe :] It goes something like this: "Plan for wipe." It's planned. When is it going to happen? We don't know. Will it happen? Absolutely. Do we have a To-Do List full of specific things that need to be done before a wipe? No. We just know that it will be done, because it's inevitable. Ask Ary.

As for it being the "answer to all our problems," all a wipe is is the cleaning of the slate after several fixes and balances have been done. So no, it's not the answer in and of itself. I brought it up to say that worrying about weapon slashes not being as they are meant to be right now and it affecting the economy isn't an issue.

Oh o.k, this makes more sense now, it's just the way it was written before it was like everything was planned and ready to be put into action.

As for the economy, will it remain stable Karyuu, or have you heard from the devs about possibly changing weapons abit and maybe getting rid of gold.

What i mean to say is will our economy be hit hard again like the loss of another mine, or the loss of weapons of /4 and higher?
You don't have to discuss the feature being introduced, only that we can look forward to a huge change in the economy

~~Datruth

[themule]

Well I think that anything with / > 6 should be rare, that is you get one in a week, if you keep trying to and do nothing else.
A /10 weapon should be generated once in a week, globally.

[Karyuu]

Datruth: There aren't any major changes planned to the economy directly - except for new features, and there's no way to predict how they'll affect the economy once they're in. I can't say more than that on the subject at the moment. /10 however is meant to be the "final choice" for slash value, at least right now. Can't predict project leaders either :]

[Datruth]

Well I think that anything with / > 6 should be rare, that is you get one in a week, if you keep trying to and do nothing else.
A /10 weapon should be generated once in a week, globally.

To tell you the truth, I would love that move actually.
Not me personally, but my wallet.

Why?

Because All Prices for all /6 and higher weapons  would skyrocket.
You would squeeze the supply so much that prices would go through the roof.

Stemming supply isn't the answer, it's already been stemmed enough, in my opinon.

And Thank you Karyuu for your swift response  , I just wish i could know more of your Secrets
Or maybe i already do lol.

~~Datruth

[bilbous]

A wipe does not have to mean a full wipe, the mega slash weapon wipe did not trash any characters nor did the platinum money wipe  (I wasn't around for either of them and don't even know if they were the same but my character remained virtually intact when I susequently returned.)

I never said iron was better than silverweave I lumped them together. The idea of trading in looted weapons is distasteful to me as it causes some people to mine Gladiators and rogues at the expense of the people who want there own chance to loot these things. I have done a lot of fighting in the arena and only found the iron axe in the way of what passes for a mega weapon now. My iron longsword of stone is a relic of the 50+ slash days that I hadn't gotten around to selling to the npcs before I went into hibernation.

That niche you speak of is the niche of the profiteers. The only reason you can get away with this is because there is no way to lose your weapons otherwise you would be beaten down and forcefully relieved of them. To me that makes it OOC. Personally I give my alts mid level weapons to use but I have also given them to strangers if I happened to have them in my pack. I have no use for the auction channel because if I can't get something for myself in the game I don't need it. If there is something I do need that I can't get then that is a flaw in the game design.  Some quests should not be repeatable. I would go so far as to say that most quests should be one time affairs. Those people going around doing the second and third level glyph quests repeatedly are to my mind no different than the weapon miners and I have no use for them either. It wouldn't be so bad if you just gave them away but these quests, I believe, are ones that are more difficult and less common and doing them by rote  repeatedly is preventing someone else from trying them.


That's my story and I am sticking with it.

[Datruth]

I have no use for the auction channel because if I can't get something for myself in the game I don't need it. If there is something I do need that I can't get then that is a flaw in the game design.
That's my story and I am sticking with it.

....so if you can't procure something yourself, then that's a flaw in game design....

I'm sorry but if we could all get whatever we wanted, without each others help, this game would be useless.

And i'm sorry to say that if you want an SWSS anytime soon, you'll have to rely on someone else to loot it, and use your money to buy it.
The vast majority will not loot an SWSS, and that's a good thing, not a game flaw.

Those are the facts of the world, and i'm sticking by them.

~~Datruth

[zanzibar]

I have no use for the auction channel because if I can't get something for myself in the game I don't need it. If there is something I do need that I can't get then that is a flaw in the game design.

I disagree.  I think that people who work together should benefit from their cooperation.  Let's say that you have two characters.  If one specializes in metalurgy and the other specializes in crafting, then together they will surpass what either could do alone if they had to do everything themselves.

Ok.  So if you powerlevel your character, then maybe you can do everything by yourself.  Fine.  But I don't think that's as fun as working with other people, it will take a lot more effort on your part, and it's just a bit OOC.

That niche you speak of is the niche of the profiteers.

He meant that the most powerful weapons should be able to kill in one hit, and silverweave weapons are the weapons which do such a thing.

Besides that, what do you mean by a "profiteer"?  Do you mean someone who wants to make a profit?  Are you saying that characters in game shouldn't try to make a profit from their work and items?

Well I think that anything with / > 6 should be rare, that is you get one in a week, if you keep trying to and do nothing else.
A /10 weapon should be generated once in a week, globally.

Rare, but not so rare that you can't get one of your own eventually.  Really, I think they shouldn't be looted very often at all, and instead people should be able to craft them if they have enough time and skill.

Personally, I think NPCs should drop only broken weapons.  People should buy their weapons from craftsmen.  It would make things more realistic, it would stimulate the player economy, and it would encourage people to interact with eachother.  It would also encourage the specialization of characters, which is something that has been talked about on this forum in the past.

I would not pay 50k for the best sword and now that they decay they are worth even less.

Are you speaking from an IC or OOC perspective?  IC, yes.  50k is a fortune.  However, OOC, the best weapons have gone for an excess for 1,000,000 trias.  It all depends on how much other people are willing to pay.

[bilbous]

I'm quite capable of standing on the dlayo platform with 2 of my alts for hours on end killing the three rogues over and over like it seems some people do but I am not that ignorant. I don't need a bugged piece of crud sword to make myself feel good. Neither do I need to monopolize mobs that drop bonus stuff just so I can rip people off to make more money than I can ever spend. As far as something I do need goes it would be something like a quest item for significant character growth and not some crummy uber weapon. So, for example, if I have to do a quest to get a glyph in order to train that way beyond a certain level and I cannot get  that quest because someone has timed its appearance and grabs it everytime it is available just to sell that glyph then that is a game flaw because even if I buy the glyph I still won't be able to advance in that way because it requires the quest. I am not sure if any such quest is in the game or planned for the game but it would not surprise me in the slightest and that specifically is the type of quest that should not be repeatable. In the case that more than one of those glyphs is needed for certain spells that quest could enable you to buy that glyph anytime after finishing the quest. It might just be that the npc who gave you the quest tells you who to talk to and he will sell them to you at a high price if you have that quest completion flag set.

While I was writing this Zanzibar made his post and I will attempt to answer some of it.

I think that people who work together should benefit from their cooperation.

I got no problem with that. If you got skills I don't and if I got ones you don't I'll swap you job for job.

Ok.  So if you powerlevel your character, then maybe you can do everything by yourself.  Fine.  But I don't think that's as fun as working with other people, it will take a lot more effort on your part, and it's just a bit OOC.

So in your world there are no social misfits no outcasts or pariahs or stinking blobs that no-one can stand to be near. There is always someone there when you need them and being self-sufficient is anathaema. What if I don't like people? What if my character thinks all the other characters are blithering idiots or worse, degenerate perverts? What if my characters back story is such that nobody can be trusted? Should I go somewhere else? Who has the right to tell me that I can't play the way that I want as long as I don't break the rules. Is there a rule that would prevent me from playing a hermit? These are just a few examples of characters who would not willingly work with others.

Besides that, what do you mean by a "profiteer"?

I mean someone who monopolizes high yield mobs as often as they can and for as long as they can for the sole purpose of looting that uber weapon and selling it at an outrageous price. Personally I don't pvp so I don't need a 1 hit wonder. If I were to duel I would specify store bought weapons.

Are you speaking from an IC or OOC perspective?  IC, yes.  50k is a fortune.  However, OOC, the best weapons have gone for an excess for 1,000,000 trias.  It all depends on how much other people are willing to pay.

I am speaking from any context. 50k is 6 or eight good hours in the arena fighting gladiators. It is also leass than two levels of sword training at my level (~50). Tell me how long do you think it would take a new character to be able to pay a million tria for a sword? It will only happen if there is some money bug to exploit and the weapon miners make sure that they will never be able to loot one. These items just ensure that the elite never lose their leetness. They should be taken out of the game or made so common that everyone has one.

[zanzibar]

I don't need a bugged piece of crud sword to make myself feel good.

There are still bugged weapons in the game?  I thought the devs took out all the swords with a slash above ten?  Even then, silverweave isn't that much more powerful than iron.

Neither do I need to monopolize mobs that drop bonus stuff just so I can rip people off to make more money than I can ever spend.

One, I don't see how you're ripping people off if they're buying what they think they're buying.  Two, I've had millions of trias and now my character is broke.  I guess you just need to find a better way to spend money.

As far as something I do need goes it would be something like a quest item for significant character growth and not some crummy uber weapon.

Why is it "crummy"?  What are you trying to communicate by that word?

So, for example, if I have to do a quest to get a glyph in order to train that way beyond a certain level and I cannot get  that quest because someone has timed its appearance and grabs it everytime it is available just to sell that glyph then that is a game flaw because even if I buy the glyph I still won't be able to advance in that way because it requires the quest.

Well, yeah.  But that's not exactly related to this discussion.  I started a thread in the wish forum where we discussed this issue.

So in your world there are no social misfits no outcasts or pariahs or stinking blobs that no-one can stand to be near.

In my world, social misfits who don't work with others will not be able to accomplish as much as people who work with guilds or groups.  It goes with the territory, and I don't think it's unnatural or unrealistic.

I mean someone who monopolizes high yield mobs as often as they can and for as long as they can for the sole purpose of looting that uber weapon and selling it at an outrageous price.

No price is outrageous if someone is willing to pay.

50k is 6 or eight good hours in the arena fighting gladiators.

Also known as a farmer's earnings for 250 years.

[Datruth]

Thank you zanzibar for understanding what i meant when i used the word "niche".
Regardless of Silverweaves, there will always be a niche, a "most powerfull weapon" that people will pay money for.
I didn't understand what he meant by Niche of the profiteers either..... it would be everyone's niche.

Everyone would hold that sword in high regard, even if they got rid of all weapons of /3 and higher, the /2.9's would be the "strongest" weapons, and their supply would be closely monitored.

And in EVERY world, those who do not work with others fail.
The human race has internet, computers, rockets, satallites, and a plethera of others things because we worked together.
Not working together should come with a consequence.

Also, those who use multiple clients should be banned, It's not right using more than one client at once, and weapon's dealers/ looters can't be held liable for things cheaters do.

"I don't need a bugged piece of crud sword to make myself feel good"

I don't care what you say bilbous because i know you love that Iron Axe of yours.
You can act all you want but you know you need it and you know it's very powerfull.

If you totally disagree with me, and still feel you don't need it, than give me your axe, or better yet, sell it to me for 50k.

You won't do either because i know you are attached to that weapon regardless of what you say.
This isn't wrong, but it's human nature, we like power, and when an object gives it to us, we relish it.

I must thank zanzibar again for his last post, he addressed alot of the topics that needed addressing, saving me the trouble of having to go through them all.

Thanks bud

~~Datruth

[Karyuu]

One thing:

Also, those who use multiple clients should be banned, It's not right using more than one client at once, and weapon's dealers/ looters can't be held liable for things cheaters do.

Why, and what are you referring to?

[Datruth]

One thing:

Also, those who use multiple clients should be banned, It's not right using more than one client at once, and weapon's dealers/ looters can't be held liable for things cheaters do.

Why, and what are you referring to?

Multiple clienting, as Bilbous and I were referring to it:

The process of a player using more than one Client, and logging into more than one account, at the same time, with more than one character, using them all to kill and loot.

Basically it's 2 or 3 different characters, hitting 2-3 different Npc's, Looting 2-3 times faster, at the same time.

I am fine with creating alternate characters, and even alternate accounts, but USING 2 or more characters AT ONCE to help you loot faster, is wrong in my opinion.

I consider that cheating, even though i do not know the Dev's Policies on this action.

Regardless, i hold my own level of morals, and each player should play with 1 character at a time.

~~Datruth