Resposibility and Honesty

[eldoth_terevan]

The player "Eid" seems to been dealt with as any other player would have been if exploiting a bug. He knows the rules. If he is a devoted player then he knows (Or should!) the consequences of his actions. Period.

Eid knew he was going to get banned.  He did what he did to draw attention to the exploit, and he expected to be punished for it.

Eid knew exactly what he was doing.

[Suno_Regin]

But why be banned for it? So that the community actually will get ruined? Is that what the point in banning him is? He actually got the long-needed wipe to take place, and stopped the devs from picking their noses to actually get on this serious problem. He doesn't deserve to be banned. I don't care if it was against the rules, you know that anyone exploiting this bug was supposed to be banned too, why only ban the person trying to fix the problem?

Now here comes the part where everyone calls me an ass****, but I really don't care, you can say it all you want. I'm going back to what I first said, all of this crap is going to lead to the game dying, because the community does nothing but exploit this crap. Does it take a little exploiting to actually get your attention on the subject? And why only address this one bug? There are hundreds, get on those too, or does someone have to exploit them publically to get you to fix those as well?

[Robinmagus]

It sounds to me like people are suggesting that the devs are lazy for not fixing bugs. I don't think this is the case. Let me clarify how I feel, and I suspect many others feel the same way.

Eid's actions were against the rules of Planeshift, but he did it for the purpose of pressuring the devs to fix the duplication bug. I personally reported the bug in early December, demonstrating to a GM in-game exactly how to duplicate practically any item. The GM followed my simple instructions, and was able to duplicate items, and saw how amazingly simple it was. We both agreed that, since it was so simple a process, many others would soon discover the bug by accident just as I did, and then the PS economy would be destroyed. Our predictions proved true, as over the next few weeks, I noticed more and more characters suddenly becoming overnight millionaires. The economy of PS was destroyed weeks ago.

During these two months, the bug was not fixed... but several models of helmets were added. The light glyph was added, though it isn't usable without using an exploit to raise Crystal Way. Vortex glyph was added, along with a flashy but useless spell. Mind glyph was added, with no apparent spell. More glyphs were added. Then more monsters were added to the already packed arena!

We were watching more and more features being added to PS instead of this horrible bug getting fixed. It was obvious that the devs were not lazy, but rather focusing on adding things more than fixing things.

24 hours after Eid's escapade, the duplication bug was fixed. A few hours after that, the mini-wipe got rid of most of the ill-gotten gains from the bug. Now, I see more people mining again, and looting rogues and gladiators again. Things seem to finally be back to normal, and the economy back on track. Thank you, Eid, for making it clear to the GMs and devs how serious this bug was, and thank you devs for fixing the bug and doing the wipe.

-Roahn

Interesting post there for review...

He broke a rule and most of the team seems to believe in concrete rules. I personally don't like anything set in stone, and like to make exceptions, changes, and such to rules with every unique case that comes by, which in my opinion is what makes a rule a good one, and one to be followed and enforced fully.


Now, no need to call Suno an ass****. Because as far as I'm concerned Zorbels, you have taken a step below him, and sure he will continue to take steps below you, and so forth, but namecalling of that sort shouldn't be put in this public forum. And no, everyone under 18 doesn't automatically skip over those carefully placed asteriks. (or whatever you call them) Also, I think that your position does give your opinion a bit of a bias slant on this subject, conciously or not

This is all pointless mud slinging now, and I do think that the first page was the only one worth keeping, other than the quote above, which I do ask you to review once more, very interesting variation in response times between the two approaches.


Again, just my opinions. No need to call me an ass.

[Gwinn Ravenn]

I am very sorry you feel that way. The theme of all of my posts is regarding respect in general. Observational , not argumentative at all The comments are indeed appropriate in this thread. As, lack of respect for one another regardless of the role they play in game can be seen at the root of much of the animosity floating around as of late and hence resulting in the subsequent breakdown of communication  My comments are diplomatic in nature. Each group has their perspective and it is easy to see them all. As for pms that is not going to happen. I am not ashamed of what I say, nor am I unwilling to defend my position  in a respectful debate. I can and do know how to disagree well. Disagree with what I say. I am very much ok with that. No what I say will always be said in the light of day. When I say my words are not hostile , truly that is what I mean. It is unfortunate inflection and tone of voice do not translate well in the written form. I am of the opinion that the points expressed in my posts are relevant you are of the opinion they are not. This is what any forum is for the expression and debate of opinions.  I agree to disagree and I will fight to the death your right to say it.

[Karyuu]

If this thread doesn't improve, I am simply locking it. I don't care what kind of impression this will give, and I don't care how you choose to interpret it. I am tired of comments like Suno's and I am tired of hearing about Eid. What was done is done.

The reason I am being so hostile in my posts right now is because I have seen just how hard developers work on this game and I am sick and tired of being insulted for what we all do for you. The more stupid complaints we get, the less nice we want to be. Karyuu just hit her limit, and you're going to have to deal with it. So if you have something constructive to say right now, please say it, otherwise I will remove you from the thread.

[Suno_Regin]

Can I at least know a little about this new update going on?

[Garile]

Communication.

Why is it a problem when someone reports a bug or asks something the nice way? Not saying it always gets ignored, but I rarely see a dev responding in the forums to a normal thread.

Why then respond to someone like Suno if he is acting the way he is? It only makes the devteam look bad in my eyes if the only thing the most devs posting here do is ridiculing the one or two persons who are acting that way. If it really bugs you delete his posts. Don't just ignore the good people.

@Suno: Eid deserved the ban. I said this before I knew it was Eid who did this and why, and I am saying this after. Killing other peoples fun is the worst thing you can do in my eyes with a game like this and that is what he has done. You yourself don't feel he ruined a part of the game? Good for you. Fact is many other don't feel that way and fact is he blatantly ignored the rules. You can't just not punish someone who knew what he did was wrong becuase he claims to have good motives and in this case many other options were open to him so it wasn't like he had no choice.

[Suno_Regin]

The people knew there was going to be a wipe, he brought it sooner. Now they hate him for it? We're testers, not players, we find these exploits and report them. The community is still growing, and this bug pretty much corrupted them, and as many people have said, they've reported it long before this time, and nothing had happened. Eid finally brought it to their attention that this needed to be fixed. Are they mad because they can't dupe items anymore?

[miadon]

thats like saying some corrupt member of govenment should go free for finding loop holes in the law.  :/

[Garile]

OK Suno lets see. Did Eid have no other choice? Was he unable to talk with GMs? ingame? I know he is online about the same time I am and lately most of the time there is atleast one GM online. Specially Caarie has helped me several times already by answering me questions about broken quests and changing my last name in the last two months.  PMs on the forums aren't unknown to him either so thats a way to communicate with several GMs that are online in different timezones.

If he was worried the bug was underestimated it would have been simple to form a group with some of the friends who knew about the bug already and tottally fill up their inventory, but instead of dropping it simply ask a GM to have a look ingame or make a post on the forums about it. Dont't you think something like that would have gotten attention? Posting you have a whole inventory full of silverweavess through a bug and even maxed your tria?

All I heared him say he did was send a report to a GM once. Now I agree that should be enough but that in no way exuses his actions. Those wouldn't have been exusable if he had done a whole lot more then that before chosing to break the rules. Specially seeing the devs may have a very good reason why it couldn't have been fixed yet.

[Suno_Regin]

"Send a report to a gm" was bluntly your entire post. This thread's been filled with people saying they'd reported the bug to gm's, and I'm sure there have been forum posts, a lot of them. You can't say no one reported this, and I heard it's been going on since december? And how would filling their invintory get anyone's attention? A lot of people have done that, that's why it's been such an issue, but it was only addressed after dropping the items.

[Karyuu]

There have been 0 forum posts, and I have been told about this bug only once.

[Suno_Regin]

I've seen at least 4 threads about the community being ruined, and other things all relating back to this bug. And look at all the posts throughout this thread, a lot of people who have replied have said they told a GM about this problem.

[Akaye]

Now here comes the part where everyone calls me an ass****, but I really don't care, you can say it all you want. I'm going back to what I first said, all of this crap is going to lead to the game dying, because the community does nothing but exploit this crap.

You've been saying that for the past two years. Yet, here the game is, stronger than ever and with more players even. Besides you don't give the community any credit. All we do is exploit crap? That statment is crap. You ever hear of something called role-play? There are members in this community who do nothing but and couldn't give a rats ass about exploits. Come on Suno! You of all people should kow that.

@Gwinn Ravenn: Your telling me your not argumentative in you post then I can accept that. It did appear though like you were riding in on a white horse to save Suno, when more often than not his opinions have insulted people all over the forums. He is only getting the respect he has given the team. His opinions would be taken more seriously if he gave them in a more respectful manner. It isn't just this thread I speak of. I have nothing else to really add to your post or to discuss with you but I hope you understand what I am saying.

Edit; I also want to add I agree with Karyuu and her post. Don't you players understand that the Dev team is getting tired of your insults complaints. How many times to you think they are going to take it before they decide they have had enough and snap back. If I wouldn't know any better the community treats the devs like they are not human and should have super powers. Gesh, how horrible of those devs to not be on the ball when the players snap their fingers and say go. 

[miadon]

This topic seems to be doing nothing more that distract devs from fixing bugs\working on other things, which is very ironic.