Factions (What are they? How do they Work?)

[Idoru]

At first I figured this was the number of winch-related quests I'd done... but now I'm just confused.

Its not

Some quests seem to give faction points and some dont. Ive done loads of the prerequisite winch quests and only managed to earn some faction points when doing a random quest last night.

[Caarrie]

You should always get a system message when you finish a quest that will tell you if you get an increase or decrease of a faction other then by that no one can tell you how you got the one you got.

[Zan]

I already have Laanx and Xacha faction points. They just appear with certain quests .. usually quests that involve helping said faction

[Under the moon]

Hold up there... you get -told- if your faction goes up or down, and you have a little number telling you what your faction rank is?

* Under the moon shakes his head in a very disappointed way. The following is why:

"Hey, you do the Shining Tree quest yet?"

"No, I have to raise my faction status with the City Gardeners from 5 to 7. And my Facton is too high with the Treecutters, so that has to come down."

"That sucks."

"Ya, I am going to ask around to see who knows how to get to 7."

random noob shout "how do I get to level 10 guards? help plz!!!"

Add Power-factioning to the list.

[lordraleigh]

Hold up there... you get -told- if your faction goes up or down, and you have a little number telling you what your faction rank is?

What the? Even in Deus Ex(that isn't a 100% RPG) there was no way you could know beforehand that if you did *spoiler* you would become in bad terms with NPC(s) *spoiler* and in good terms with NPC(s) *spoiler*

Really, that is a bad idea

Add Power-factioning to the list.

For a game that should focus on roleplay.

It comes again to the old and beaten phrase:

Testers first, Roleplayers(and players) second

What's next? A quest you need to have level 70 in sword to be able to complete?

[Karyuu]

What's next? A quest you need to have level 70 in sword to be able to complete?

Are you suggesting it's odd to have a quest require a certain amount of skill for doing a task?

You're not told beforehand what faction statuses will change. It happens after you finish a quest.

[lordraleigh]

What's next? A quest you need to have level 70 in sword to be able to complete?

Are you suggesting it's odd to have a quest require a certain amount of skill for doing a task?

Not exactly, just that under the current game engine(  ) it will encourage powerlevelling.

You're not told beforehand what faction statuses will change. It happens after you finish a quest.

Still it would be much better if the message was more subtler and using a less accurate and relative measure than numbers, like for example "slightly better" for the change and "neutral" for the rating as default instead of "0", and perhaps all of this would be better if it was only reflected on the way NPCs from a certain faction treat you(The more hostile the tone of a NPC, the more the NPC's faction dislike you and vice-versa).

[Karyuu]

I think none of our quests right now (nor will they ever) require high stats or skills when you cannot gain them in a way that would not be OOC. So basically if a quest requires a high fighting skill, that is because it is asking for a fighter - and if you roleplay a simple poet, the quest is not aimed at your character. However the number of such quests, again, is incredibly low as far as I know. As more skills and more opportunities for various methods of training are presented, they will all be used in quests. Xillix sees quest material in everything :]

I really like the suggestion for a word-description of your faction status, too. I'm hoping Xillix will see this - and if not, I will pass it along.

[Volund]

Faction huh? sort of like horde and alliance in WoW or what? I volunteer the faction of pimps and wenches...

[Karyuu]

More like in Oblivion. Various NPC groups are in factions - Laanx/Talad priests, guards, etc. Depending on what quests you do and how you do them, your relationship with these factions will change. And in the future, this will have all sorts of consequences - for example having a high score with a merchant faction may get you discounts, a low score in the guard faction will make guards more suspicious of you, and the like.

[Nikodemus]

As about skill dependent quest. It's not really good idea. This goes against supporting different solutions and endings for the same quest.
Let's say there i ulbernaut said to be terryfieng a village.
You go to guard and say you can deal with the problem.
Guard: you don't have high enough skills
I do have _proper_ skills and i can solve your problem.
No, you can't, you need skill.
I don't need skills you think i need.
No, you can't, you need skill.
Even though to solve the problem you don't have to slay the creature, or you are smart enough to do it in a way guard isn't expecting, you can't get the quest.
If this happens, people will powerlevel more, because they will be training like crazy skills, they don't normally need, but wich are needed by the guard script. Even though they don't use the skill, they will train it, while they could do something more constructive.

As about points in factions... I gues it's somewhat good. Can't say much good or bad about it, since this is completly new to me.

I wonder though... if you are completing quests by GMs, can they give you faction points? I so much more like these quests, not only because there is no this dump problem with understanding, but because i like to work in group, while NPC quest don't support accepting the quest by a group.

[Karyuu]

Nikodemus: I don't think we will ever have quests demand skill levels like that. You've explained well why that's a bad choice and I believe our Settings team would agree. The right way to do it (and they way we do it now) is to simply assign a task and leave it up to the character to figure out how to do it. For example if you're asked for Ulber hearts but you can't scratch a single mark on them, you can obviously try to buy them from others.

LR said "level 70 in sword to be able to complete" a quest, you explained it as "level 70 in sword to be able to receive a quest" - but in the end it's the same thing, a system we don't want to use. So no worries.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I have no pity for those who fear powerfactioning; none at all. One can hardly get more realistic than people vying for supremacy with various groups it occurs in life every day. The factions are another means of drawing players into quests which are a big way to learn more about the history of the game and the relationships of the npcs to one another. We show the #'s yes it is and OOC factiod so a player may have greater understanding of their character's integration into the world. Quests are now being generated (largely by jeraphon) that encompass many options for how you resolve it, this is just a system of consequences and rewards for those choices. Again the fact that you can see faction and the faction of other players etc. should only be thought of as a general reputation about a person. Much like descriptions which many of you also dislike.

Numbers for faction are not the most aesthetic choice and we can discuss that although the engine deals more readily with them and there is less room for confusion.

Gone are the days of features being added and neglected by the settings team, this system is being integrated as quickly as possible.

Factions will eventually be what most of you expect they will be.

[Zan]

You are right Xillix but I think what UtM frowns upon is the matter it is handled in. OOC numbers are too tempting to use when your characters are talking. That's why I'd also prefer to see the following ..

Factions:

Diaboli: "You are held in very high esteem by this race. Most Diaboli enjoy your presence more than that of a fine glass of wine and some beautiful company."

Laanx: "It's a surprise that you can get by for a day without being struck down by lightning. Laanx must be waiting for you to die so he can shred your soul to pieces."

...

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

sure as i said, the nomenclature can be discussed with the engine folks in time.

I doubt however any system will be enjoyed by every player