Team Adraax:Official City Design Contest

[Nikodemus]

I have been wondering, on 3D design and what will happen when you walk by the main road... The more faces you see at once, the lower the FPS.
If the road was to be straight, you will see all the buildings from one gate to another, that's not good. So i propose to curve the road.


Looking at the plan, it is really stunning how many different buildings will have to be done.
And there needs to be another plan for the underground corridors, some water - underground lakes and streams.

[Baldur]

Along with Niko's Ideas I'd say we need to plan the city in a rectangular or circular growth pattern with the oldest buildings in a corner or an arc(don't ask me why, cities grow that way).

Could we all agree with the city developing from a merchant village? The other option would be financing, planning from the start, which is less probable and much rarer. I'll try to whip together a map if I can but the one I rely most on is for Zweitholou to absorb the feedback and make us another map.

Check up on some medieval building references and attempt to modify them in the Klyran fashion, that's what I would do

[Nikodemus]

oww, looks like irc doesn't like you, Baldur.
This is how i see the city grownth from Zweitholou map
The circular pattern is present in the upper quarter. The city founders got richer and didn't think like moving somewhere else, while their houses can't be moved. At this time some wall was present already and the buildings within it was taking more and more free space. Poorer people were forced outside the walls and so they started to build their houses there.
At this time the old upper quarter had two gates. The top one, with road going somewhere up. The bottom gate for a change had short road joining with the old pre-city road, which was going from bottom to top (it was going that way, because there was a long cliff at the right).
So those poorer people forced outside the city gates started to build exactly there, along the roads. The lower quarter started to form and it wasn't going circular from the city gate, but it was growing around the first existing roads. And later They started to build city walls arounbd the lowerquarter. The pre-city road was called the MAIN ROAD.

Where is there the room for Landing Platforms?
They were present probably in the upper and lower quarters, but as the time passed, they were razed and moved away. Or they wasnt present in the city at all, but they were directly near the quarries and later on when the upper and lower quarters formed, they were moved to the third forming city part, when lower querter filled with buildings and again, poorer people was forced outside the walls.

If I were Zweitholou, i wouldn't know what to draw without such a plan or different plan, which would make this one completly unlogical and proven that completly different one is needed.

[Jeraphon]

Could we all agree with the city developing from a merchant village? The other option would be financing, planning from the start, which is less probable and much rarer.

Keep in mind that the klyroses would have banded together when they first arrived in Yliakum. In that case, it actually is more likely that they planned the city from the start as opposed to saying "Well now that we're here, let's make money."

[Baldur]

Could we all agree with the city developing from a merchant village? The other option would be financing, planning from the start, which is less probable and much rarer.

Keep in mind that the klyroses would have banded together when they first arrived in Yliakum. In that case, it actually is more likely that they planned the city from the start as opposed to saying "Well now that we're here, let's make money."

Another scenario could be that the Klyros simply settled down and through the quarry started trading minerals with the surrounding races , but I see you point Jeraphon.

[Zweitholou]

Sorry I've been quiet for a while. The workload at school has picked up a bit and I've also been busy outside of school.

@Nikodemus
I agree that the main road should bend as you demonstrated, and I think such a bend would have several benefits.
Also, you described my train of thought very well. However, I am a little confused by the last bit.

If I were Zweitholou, i wouldn't know what to draw without such a plan or different plan, which would make this one completly unlogical and proven that completly different one is needed.

Do you mean to say that if that or a similar idea is not what I had in place to guide me, then I should devise a history? I did have a history similar to what you described.

@Baldur
I understand what you mean by the city growth, and I see that my map is illogical in places. I am sorry I was so unyeilding. I will revise the map to incorporate more logical growth and a bending main road. I did some research on medieval town layouts not long ago and I will continue to use them as reference material.


Is it possible that we could combine planned and grown in the layout? Perhaps the Klyros came to the area which fit their needs and was rich in resources and decided to make a town, primarily the upper district and the beginnings of the lower district without a wall yet. As the trade boomed the city grew outwards, but only in one direction because the other direction was blocked off by cliffs. The landing platforms were built to centralize the center for exports and imports, as well as to house lower class and poorer workers outside the lower quarter walls.

Again, I will revise the city plan to reflect the changes we have made. 

edit: How's this?

[Nikodemus]

Oh FFS.
my psp just exploded and i have @#$^ of what i did, a staged city grownth. with topography.
I just fix what i think is wronh with your.

If I were Zweitholou, i wouldn't know what to draw without such a plan or different plan, which would make this one completly unlogical and proven that completly different one is needed.

Do you mean to say that if that or a similar idea is not what I had in place to guide me, then I should devise a history? I did have a history similar to what you described.

This was more directed to Baldur, to provide more explanations how the city should look like. But it is me, looks like you know more than me.

Though, look at image i made.
I have put the cliffs at right. Why?
Coz upper quarted could have been build at a small hill by the main road. And people expanded in that direction. Not because they couldn't in the other as there were cliffs, but because the main road was a better commicational site. So there is no reason to put the cliffs as you did it. (Personally, i would like to see the terrain not very hilly, just so the city looks better)
Instead, i see cliffs at the right side. The exact reason why the landing platforms wall is so unregular and why there are no gates to outside. Instead people have to transport stone from quaries first to lower quarters and then pass through another gate.
* See i made the wall between these two  more smooth, because i think it is how the wall would look like after they built it around lower quarters.
* I Added landing platform road. because the city description say there is one and it makes sense, so it takes the shortest path where from the stone is transported.
* I modified all city gates. From military PoV, it is easier to defend a gates situated this way. Why would they build it the way you drew it? Seriously, i'm not expert.

wow, i so hate when psp explode.

[Jeraphon]

I notice you've made an updated city map with a marsh and cliffs. I quote myself from less than a week ago:

Sadly, we must ask that the teams refrain from changing the topography or terrain in major ways, because it would affect other things besides that which you're designing (most especially, nearby towns.)

To re-iterate:

NO NEW TOPOGRAPHY OR TERRAIN, PLEASE. No new rivers. No new marshes. No new cliffs. No new beaches. No tundra. No deserts. Please. We know you're trying to be creative, but we must ask that you hold to this rule.

[Zweitholou]

Here is the walls and roads part of the revised map.


Let me know what is wrong so I can fix it. Use the map below for reference.

Hello. Here is a city layout I've been working on.


Key
A. Vigesimi's Tower
B. University of Amadenier
C. Plaza Park
D. Hospital of Talad
E. Magic Shop
F. Guard Barracks
G. The Parting Ways tavern
H. Landing Platforms (buildings)
I. Smithy
J. Burial Well
K. Warehouse

The buildings along the main road are for various crafts. Plain square buildings are typically Ylian, while more unusual shapes are Klyros.

@Jeraphon
I'm sorry. I overlooked that and will be careful to avoid it next time. 

@Nikodemus
I understand what you mean and have tried to merge your changes with the basis of the old map. Since we can't add cliffs, I changed the end that looked odd. Sorry about your PSP. 

[Tyrania]

edit, plz delete this post o.o

[Nikodemus]

Jeraphon, true, "NO NEW TOPOGRAPHY OR TERRAIN" But i think we have come to a moment, we need to plan something. See that the city description and surroundings doesn't describe at all any hills, cliffs or other formations.
I don' tknow how others, but i would be happy to have the landscape mostly flat, with exceptions: As on the height map image, i added a cliff - or more like half km (or something) long canyon on the right side of Zweitholous city plan. (like 5-7m deep or something) This is to explain why Landing Platforms wall isn't round, but unregular.
Later on we will be wanting to layout all quarries and plan topography of the area.

I'm guessing that the city description and surroundings say nothing on topography, because it is supposed to be very flat, but if it isn't, maybe allow us to shape it by ourselves. Can you?
We have 3 km² to plan and formations like 0,5km long canyons will start and end within it.
Current PS landscapes are very much hilly.

Zweitholou, you didn't include all elements i proposed and you didn't tell why, so i don't know. Though my proposed changes may change a bit or a lot depending from what Jeraphon will answer now.
oh gw with: shape of walls around city gates (you may keep the previous small squares at city gates base)
 

[Baldur]

I suggest we keep off from the topography and focus on that city at hand. Changes can be made after we've made this city. Simply focus less on the exterior and more on the interior excluding the exterior. Zweitholou's topography map is as far as we go. I personally started itt but as it's taking up so much time and so little art is being subbmitted I suggest we stop discussing the theoretical and start creating the visual.

My skills in adding tiny details have never been good, for six hours I worked on a piece depicting a side view city plan but I suppose I got too tired and it turned out to be a minimalistic mess. I'll try to manufacture a map, from the concept I drew, using Photoshop.

[Nikodemus]

As i was told - The area around the city is flat, with small hills.
I'm making a map edit to reflect this:

he landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries.

...especially the main road and the landing platforms road...

I removed one city gate from previous plan. And along the decription the Landing Platforms road goes from one gate to another, the two opposite city exits going to the quarries. Should Landing Platform district have 2 extra gates just for that? I don't know, maybe. I can only say that the more gates, the weaker city defence, but the traffic increases. Would it be too big for only 3 gates for the city, I again can't say.

Both Landing Platforms road and Main road are slightly curved, but without sharp bends, like you, Zweitholou did in previous design. There should be no bends, if there has to be, the other less important roads can have them. Just my opinion.

Because the topography is very flat, the city walls are very regular too, not like in the very first city design.

I do what i can in this team. I can't scetch houses designs, because i do it too poorly, so if I'm stopping someone from doing this, don't feel stopped, because the houses scetches are important. No houses no city. I can only say they shouldn't have square or rectangular shape like in Hydlaa. reality is more various. (too early to say that)

[Zweitholou]

A problem I find with your correction:

It is located in the center of three stone quarries, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, and one to its southwest.

The lower quarter is divided into different sectors by three major roads, the main road, the road to the upper quarter, and a road from the south gate to the landing platforms.

Therefore, shouldn't there be four major gates leading out of the city, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, one to its southwest, and one to its south?
That is why I put four gates.

Zweitholou, you didn't include all elements i proposed and you didn't tell why, so i don't know. Though my proposed changes may change a bit or a lot depending from what Jeraphon will answer now.
oh gw with: shape of walls around city gates (you may keep the previous small squares at city gates base)

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear why I changed it the way I did.  I was short on time and will try to explain now:

@Nikodemus
I understand what you mean and have tried to merge your changes with the basis of the old map. Since we can't add cliffs, I changed the end that looked odd.

I mean that I took your suggestions and my plan from before and tried to put them together while changing as few building shapes as possible. I will change it more if we find it necessary. I feel that the final layout can not be exactly like that because it interferes with building shapes and other things (not enough gates, changes over time to make the road more angular for easier city shape).
Originally, I meant for the semicircles around the inside of the gate to mark off a sort of gate plaza (like in Hydlaa by Oja gate). But I think a depression in the wall would be more defendable.

he landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries.

...especially the main road and the landing platforms road...

I missed that when I first read through it. Thank you for telling me.

Also:

I do what i can in this team. I can't scetch houses designs, because i do it too poorly, so if I'm stopping someone from doing this, don't feel stopped, because the houses scetches are important. No houses no city. I can only say they shouldn't have square or rectangular shape like in Hydlaa. reality is more various. (too early to say that)

I don't think it's too early.  The lower quarter should have square and rectangular houses like in Hydlaa, according to the text:

In contrast to the upper quarter, the architecture of the lower quarter is only partly Klyros. Many of the old Klyros buildings have been torn down over time and replaced by Ylian architecture [like in hydlaa?]. The few Klyros buildings that are left are about twice the height of the other buildings and are mostly built of wood.

As for the Landing Platforms, I thought squarish buildings would be cheaper... That's why i put squarish buildings there.
And I do appreciate everything you, as well as Baldur, rast, Scorpio, and Ramzez, have done to help the team and the project. I could not do it without all the other tremendous designs, drawings, ideas, corrections, and criticisms.

@Baldur
I agree and I try to do sketches when I get the chance. I look forward to seeing yours.
Also, do you know how we should go about getting Nikodemus recognized officially as part of the team? We wouldn't be exceeding 6 members because Jyoshka isn't part of the team (as far as I know). If this sounds presumptuous, it is because I could not think how to word it properly. I assume you have asked Jyoshka (if he wants to be on the team), but I don't know what he said.

I hope I explained everything. Please point out what's wrong. 

[Jeraphon]

Therefore, shouldn't there be four major gates leading out of the city, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, one to its southwest, and one to its south? That is why I put four gates.

You could interpret it that way. Another interpretation is that there's only a south gate, not a southwest one, and further down the road there's a fork to the southwest. However, I'll leave it open to your creativity.