Roofs underground?

[mtownse]

I realize the whole world of PlaneShift is fantasy so there are going to be some things which don\'t make sense until the rules of the fantasy are understood... could someone explain to me why the building have roofs, why there is fog, and what all those trees are doing alive and underground?

It would make a little sense if there was something saying all the people living down underground decended from people from above who brought their building styles and plant life below... what\'s the tie?

00Matthew

[jorrit]

Originally posted by mtownse
I realize the whole world of PlaneShift is fantasy so there are going to be some things which don\'t make sense until the rules of the fantasy are understood... could someone explain to me why the building have roofs, why there is fog, and what all those trees are doing alive and underground?

It would make a little sense if there was something saying all the people living down underground decended from people from above who brought their building styles and plant life below... what\'s the tie?

00Matthew

Why wouldn\'t the buildings have roofs? It rains there too (caused by condensation and other effects) so they need protection by that. And indeed several of the races come from above the ground originally.

Greetings,

[acraig]

Originally posted by mtownse
...could someone explain to me why the building have roofs, why there is fog, and what all those trees are doing alive and underground?

To keep the heat in?  Plus there are flying creatures and you don\'t want any \'unwanted material\'  to be dropped on you.

As for the other things, there is a giant crystal that powers these things.  Taken from the settings page:

Named the Azure Sun by those people who still remember the surface, it emits a radiation that is more shifted towards infrared if compared to the light of the sun, but is suitable anyway for photosynthesis and survival of many animals, vegetables, or mineral species. This radiation decays, however, with squared progression with the distance. At the seventh level the radiation is just enough to penetrate the mass of the lake in order to light it, while on the first level it is so strong that it allows wonderful crops and the breeding of great cattle, which provide milk and meat.

----------
Andrew

[mtownse]

wouldn\'t condensation collect on the lowest parts of the rock ceiling and drip in specific areas.... perhaps you could throw in some natural \"fountains\" because of this effect. just a thought, i won\'t give you more of my ideas to laugh at... just yet.

00Matthew

[paxx]

I?ll be overly flippant here :-)

?It?s magic, leave it alone?

Actually we can come up with many reasons for rain and even snow and hail and lightning and all sorts of climactic events, if you want it to be more realistic game?I?m sure there is one out there.

We are making a very magical place, magic will be everywhere and in everything?the crystal is pouring magic all over the place?hell I even want it to literally Rain ogres and trolls,  but that might be a bit harsh even if you have a roof. :-)

[mtownse]

The crystals are the main source of magic in the world. When I walk away from the game I want to say, \"Wow, if only we had some of those crystals here. Everything would be so cool. Imagine what I could do.\" I\'m not going to walk away from the game thinking \"I wish I had some of those crystals... and some rain that magically appears... and some ogres falling from the sky for no apparent reason... and trees underground.\" It\'s too much of a stretch of the imagination to do all that. The fantasy has to be believable in such a way that people can leave the game wishing that the world they live in had that one detail that made the fantasy world so enjoyable. You want something that people can obsess over and want to know all the details of, something that can be explained better than \"oh yeah, that\'s magic.\"

If I had been told \"well, the ceiling is so high the water vapor has room to form into clouds and condense\" then I would have been satisfied. Figure out exactly how high you consider the ceiling to be before you start handing out such facts.  And then there will be atmospheric conditions to consider and whatnot... solidify the background.

00Matthew

[boonet]

This proves that some people don\'t even try to read the available material, FAQ and forum threads before they start whining.

[paxx]

I?m thinking it is pointless to make jokes on the forum, but oh well, even when I announce I am being Flippant, people don?t get it. Sorry for the confusion.

I?ll announce that the rest of this post is to be taken tongue and cheek. Or with a grain of salt, or taken half seriously.

The world has rain and lighting based on atmospheric pressure cause by the radiation of the crystal and in fact all the people are really mutations, because of the high radiation. The water evaporates and becomes clouds that then cause rain to fall. The rain clouds and the ground often have vastly different polarities and causes lighting. The pressure differences in the Vast cavern network causes temp differences and thus water condensation at low temps causes sleet and snow. Since the Crystal offers variable radiation levels it is not always burning off the clouds.

On really special occasions the winds up near the crystal cause odd vortexes that open rifts in pocket dimensions, this brings trolls and other monsters near the Crystal and then gravity sends them downward towards the ground of the main tunnel. So in effect it Rains Trolls and Ogres.

On the limit of believability issue, I would point to many places built in fantasy and many of the center of the worlds fiction and ask you what is wrong with that. Roofs often have many functions, one is maintaining heat, another is maintaining outside elements from coming in.

On condensation not being enough for rain?you might be right?but we could have millions of stalactites and have constant rain, but it seems cooler to have occasional rain.

Trees?well you plant a tree in fertile ground, you provide a source of certain radiation types providing photosynthesis then a tree will most likely grow?there could be many discussions on the validity of Oak trees growing with out having the right PH value in the ground or air?but that is a bit extreme, we will have odd foliage to provide theme and eye-candy to locations. However having an off white and grey landscape would make it easier for you to accept the validity of the game?perhaps some modelers will make clients that put stalagmites in place of trees and textures that are more in accordance with your realistic view. While they are at it they can replace all the monsters with giant cockroaches that are translucent and make all the races just different types of humans?
Oh, wait then we can take out the Crystal and give all the humans flashlights. That would be cool. And then when people die from falling or cave-ins and the giant cockroaches?well it?s time to make a new character.

  This was not meant completely as an insult, but taking my last post seriously was insulting the intelligence of the development team. While many things are not explained in detail?we do not have a game yet, as we progress we will add more, also there are many things not published that add explanations to things, are they good enough to publish?no, but they will improve as we go on. If you feel you can add to the validity of this world, sign up for the settings team. Or perhaps if you want a really realistic game?see if another project or game is out there more in your liking  

As for saying we need to solidify the background?well there is a lot that needs to be done, that is but one of a huge list and bibles worth settings material we need to write up not to mention a few thousand lines of code.        

[Vengeance]

ok I\'ll be the fourth developer to post a reply to this 3-post newbie.

Of course I\'m only posting to say that the other devs are wasting their time posting.... :-)

- Venge

[Valfaran]

Okay...you want someone to explain trees? Here\'s my idea:

Caves are created by the flow of water, eroding the rock, correct? Because the acidity of the water flowing past the stone dissolves the minerals in the stone, which are swept away (or, more accurately, dripped away) to later land on something, wherin the water evaporates and leaves the minerals to form a small deposit, which eventually grows to form a stalagmite, unless, of course, the water is not given a chance to evaporate and is swept off someplace eles (i.e. an underground river). Well, to make a cave as big as the one Ylaikum exists in, you have to have a whole hell of a lot of water, and a whole hell of a lot of drainage. The water is provided by the natural cycle of evaporation-condensation-precipitation ocurring on the surface (we can assume that a decent-sized river or stream once flowed into the ground, perhaps by means of a rift caused by an earthquake). My theory is that the water drained into the lake, then out the bottom of the lake through another rift, perhaps caused again by the movement of our friends the tectonic plates. This water could have also trickled down the walls and helped to form the Labyrinth (which also could\'ve been formed by similar conditions as the ones explained above, but on a much smaller scale). Now, as you should know, the water in rivers and streams carry a great deal of sediments and nutrients along with them, not to mention the minerals (such as nitrogen, which is essential in the growth of plant life) that were dissolved from the stone. As, over time, the strength and amount of water pouring from the ceiling of the cave decreased, it deposits all the sediments. minerals, and nutrients onto the ledges of stone and according levels of the great cave it has created. This formed the basis of nutrient-rich, life-supporting soil that exists in Yliakum and the surrounding levels. The Azure Sun (the large, radioactive blue crystal) merely helps to replenish these nutrients and keep the people, plants, and other life going.

But that\'s only if you want to get all technical.

Satisfied?

Oh, and by the way, if you need this kind of explaination for every aspect of the game, I suggest you leave so that those of us with imagination can enjoy ourselves.

[cmhitman]

personaly i dont think any of the devs are helping the matter by posting essays and using words like \"flippant\";

[Voldengrath]

Didnt we argue about why it rains already in some thread a few months ago?

Matthew, go away.

[kinshadow]

All of this reminds me of a past thread .  

If anyone else has any other ideas on PS geology, flora, fawna, or any other PS world explanations, let me know (PM, email, or post it).  I\'m currently reworking the PS geology/meteorology doc and would appreciate the input.

[windwalker]

Originally posted by cmhitman
personaly i dont think any of the devs are helping the matter by posting essays and using words like \"flippant\";

ever heard of a dictionary?
and if you don\'t want to read the essay don\'t.
the devs have the right to joke around too. thats almost all we do, while we wait.

[Maresedotes]

I personally think that some people are thinking TOO much about this. Mebbe reading TOO much into it. The trees are there. Ok lets go.