get paid to RP

[Sangwa]

Part of this problem is that I haven't seen anyone agree on exactly what constitutes "real" RP.

This is what I think is right in Mythryndel's post. PS is something I haven't seen in most RP's I play (MMORPG and otherwise), because most RP games define a RP protocol whereas PS simply has none. In PS everything is within the rules as long as you don't upset people.
So what happens is that it allows different types of players in: those who care about roleplaying (aka Roleplayers. Note how their name goes well with the name of the game genre!), those who don't and then the amazing unique grey scales of people that care about RP in their own subjective way (but are not keen on following established rules because they probably haven't played too many RPs; are currently not willing to play one thoroughly; insert random uniqueness reason here).
This doesn't work well as all these have obvious divergences (system-wise for example). I say stick with one, drop the others. It's pretty easy to figure out which we should keep in a MMORPG (yes, the first).

I don't consider myself a Hard-Core Role Player. Not in the standard meaning and not in the exaggerated, derogatory meaning this expression has in PS. I simply follow a logic: PS is meant to be a roleplay game. Good RolePlay Games have rule sets that include system and moderating mechanics. Currently PS doesn't have rule sets that cover roleplaying within PS (often concern moderating mechanics). Therefore PS is incomplete.

Now people cry that no one is entitled to say what the best RP protocol is, so it's not fair to have one. We don't have the best fighting system, we don't have the best crafting system, we don't have the best training system... So, isn't that as fair?
Let's just get a good one, not the best (like what we have in the others). People will be able to complain about something then, rather than speaking about the chaos the absence of it creates and the subsequent divisions this causes within the community. If this means losing some "costumers", what the hell; it's a MMORPG, not something else so why should we care about the people that are here for some other reasons?

We're speaking about implementations that do not require the intervention of coders, just a good planning from the settings and GM teams: a RP protocol and the respective GM procedure towards it. Dungeon & Dragons and World of Warcraft (RP server) do it. They're successful and different from each other. They all include "RP" in their definitions. So... What the hell are we waiting? We don't need to pay for RP, we just need to add what we're obviously missing.

EDIT:
Changed examples of successful games that employ RP protocols.

[Waoknie]

I think the discussion is not about a problem but a problem within another. IMO the issue is economics. Simply put, u need to get paid for everything or it's a sort of 'waste of time'.
Still, the issue must be focused as a single one. If the problem is tria, separate the stuff!. And this may be an old idea but why not?.. why can't be the training trade be based on just PP? (and perhaps get PP for RPing?).. and let tria aside for other things?... I mean, a master also wants his apprentice to grow, right?.. but the case is the master is just selling the service provided. No matter how skilled u are, u still have to pay!.
Isn't this the reason why you wish RP to be payed for?..: to get the trias for 'making a living' IG?.
I believe we have to analize these issues a bit farther before engaging into a the discussion.

[Sangwa]

That's not it. I want it to be fun whether your character is rich or poor. I like roleplaying, so simply roleplaying is fun. People that play MMORPGs should have the same feeling over roleplaying. The better the roleplaying, the more I'm having fun.
Economics are really an important thing, but not as central as first guaranteeing quality in roleplay.

[Waoknie]

I understand your point but.. The thread states 'get paid for RP' .. what is the idea?

1. To get paid for something that not everyone wants to do.. so by making it lucrative then more will be forced to do it? (IMO RP is not to be forced).

2. To get paid for something you want to do but the time it consumes doesn't allow you to do anything else in consonance with the underlying fact that you need tria? (IMO this leads to a possible solution as the one posted on this thread's heading).

If there is another one, it escapes my imagination atm.

[Izzabella]

Wow I will admit I Just kinda read the original post and a few in between but I don't RP to get a reward or trophy I role play because its a ton of fun and I enjoy the experience and hanging out with great friends.  Its the same thing when I enter a GM event, I've turned down rewards simply because it was more fun for me to be able to RP than to get paid to have done it.  Besides when you start to do something simply for the paycheck it becomes too routine and mundane and after a while you start to hate it and resent it. Overall I think just get out there have fun and be yourself....well your char.

[Waoknie]

Yes, we've been into those together Izza but the fact that I enjoy the RP or not has nothing to do with the thread. The point is it's asking for a reward .. I disagree too.. but still I think we have to look into the reason for asking for payback.. and the reason, as I see it, is another problem.

[Sangwa]

Yes it has. The thread states that its author thinks giving tria to players will enhance the roleplay experience. I disagreed and gave an alternative. Izzabella did pretty much the same.

I don't think messing up the economy OOCly will actually help with anything (giving tria for RP effort.) Though I do believe we should get rid of PP (not of tria, tria is the currency) since it would also help making levelling a bit easier and less battle focused. Awarding RP usually only works on events and such.

You don't think people should be made to RP in a RP game? Successful games, even diverging in the number of players involved, enforce RP. Every good RP game I've played has this policy. If PS doesn't follow, PS isn't a good RPG. It's a poor hack n' slash, "Second Life" crap.

[Prolix]

There is still little agreement upon what Role Play consists of where the minimalist view is doing whatever you do with your character while maintaining respect for the settings and the more aggressive view is that it is playing out scripted, broadly blocked out or minutely detailed, passion plays varying in complexity of design. There needs to be support for both these styles and everything in between. The more ardent role players seem to fixate on the latter and lack appreciation for the former.

It is this broad range of acceptable behavior that makes the idea of "pay for play" problematic.

[Waoknie]

You don't think people should be made to RP in a RP game? Successful games, even diverging in the number of players involved, enforce RP. Every good RP game I've played has this policy. If PS doesn't follow, PS isn't a good RPG. It's a poor hack n' slash, "Second Life" crap.

I've had no chance to check on the ways other games enforce RP. I think games are easier to rank than to compare.
Maybe the way RP is being enforced in PS atm could be revised. I tried wih the threads like "what makes you not rp (or sorta)..." but I can hardly find a single acknowledgement that issues the underlying intention of the 'intro' for example.. I really don't know if this was done to enforce RPing or not.. No one says that. (maybe i didn't saw it).

I once posted that actions should lead to RP.. I see some samples the possible policy of "no-action should lead to RP" in PS. I mean, what is happening to your character that you don't 'authorize'? any action is based on an explanation of it.. and RP evolves from that (this is just an example).

Perhaps I should revise my posts and state: "RP can not be forced to success by leaving it as the only choice" (nah, I don't like it either)..

Not long ago, there were actions that could easily lead to RP. Now the chars are set in a 'bubble' where nothing happens unless either authorized or through RP. IMO this makes RP harder or to say it better, leaves the chances of RP in the hands of the elite RPrs (NOT IN ALL CASES). It is very difficult for newbies to break the ice. Think yourself as a newbie for a while.. just picture the situation when you enter a scenario of typical RP in PS.. It could be quite confusing.

And since RP could be getting harder to achieve, perhaps the original poster is right when asking for reward.. maybe he/she thinks that our chars can do one or the other but not both and possibly because of the RP enforcing methods.

[Mythryndel]

*Mythryndel wraps himself in a asbestos cloak*

What i said was that "on the forums" that seems to be the most common divide. The game contains so many shades of grey, and I contribute to that murky grey-ness. In game, i think that the number 1 reason there isn't more RP is the tabs. The number 2 reason, currently, is the introduction system, and number 3 being the economy.

I do try to RP in-game. I will continue to try to RP in the game. However, WHAT IS RP IN-GAME???  Is RP simply saying "Hello Stranger, what brings you forth to this mining camp?" Is RP going to the Tavern and making a fool of yourself (in character) throwing drinks in peoples faces and dancing topless on the bar stools?

I do not frequent the tavern, and I try to be in-character when addressing new people. However, if push comes to shove and I have a lot going on, I could care less about the Main tab. If i am in a group that is working on crafting blades in Trasok's, or fighting Ulbers near the Gold mine, or whatever, a bunch of "Someone Says" with no obvious way to determine who that someone was is going to cause me to ignore it a lot of the time. There are also sooo many messages that scroll that it is information overload. Why is it that money that is looted shows up on the main tab, but PP counts and such show up on the system tab? Each time I kill a trepor I have two tabs that blink at me. I also spend a lot of time trying to find people online that have what I am looking to purchase. If I do not have 30k trias, I cannot usually buy a crafted item because nobody bothers to auction them. I think that 1 of 2 things should happen here...

1. Every ore and weapon that is sold to a merchant, should be kept as inventory to sell, with a percentage markup over what it was purchased for.
Or
2. Create a consignment merchant that allows players to set prices for items in-game.

The tabs, I do not know how to make that better at the moment. I can post later if I think of something.

The intro system... that has been flamed a LOT already. I think that it is a good concept, but currently it is poorly implemented.

Just so everybody can pigeon hole me... I play PS because i like the game. I like the mechanics, the graphics, the actual game play. RP is second to me, but makes the game more enjoyable when people do actually respond to me in-character. PS to me is a game, not a big chat client. If i am going to walk into a bar and say i can kick you up one side of the street and down the other, I intend to have the stats/skills to back that up. I am not going to sit around as a lvl 0 everything and talk.

[Taniquetil]

Wow, Myth, I agree with you completely.

Someone seconds that motion.

One thing though, on what you said about merchants and consignments. I do not play WoW, and i do not suggest we make a game like WoW, but i do think they have a good idea about an auction house. Maybe not a physical place like a house, but a menu or window where you would go to put items up for auction, people could search them, and contact info would be displayed.

[Sangwa]

I've had no chance to check on the ways other games enforce RP. I think games are easier to rank than to compare.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm not simply blowing off steam: check WoW's Roleplay Policy

(Quick reply, will check other replies later on)

[Sangwa]

(Double post to update)

I do try to RP in-game. I will continue to try to RP in the game. However, WHAT IS RP IN-GAME???  Is RP simply saying "Hello Stranger, what brings you forth to this mining camp?" Is RP going to the Tavern and making a fool of yourself (in character) throwing drinks in peoples faces and dancing topless on the bar stools?

Roleplaying in-game is being in character. You don't have to speak with anyone, you don't even have to go looking for interaction. But if people interact with you, you are supposed to respond. Your character can be a mindless fighting drone, as long as you are consistent with that. It just can't be talking about cars, or be a mindless fighting drone that sometimes communicates with people to tell them how he has connections within the Octarchy. Get my drift?

I share preoccupations with you, about the tabs, the economy and the introduce system.

If I do not have 30k trias, I cannot usually buy a crafted item because nobody bothers to auction them. I think that 1 of 2 things should happen here...

This is all up to the community. Let me advertise here that the Imperial Trades' highest price for crafted items is 13.860 tria for a Claymore of finest quality. This is because the Claymore involves a lot more materials and therefore is obviously more expensive to create than a dagger. If you want good crafted items without paying too much for them, look for the best deals.

Waoknie: I don't get you that well. But I think you're saying that RP isn't fair to newbies. That's not true. Roleplay is only unfair to people that do not know it. Newbies should learn how to Roleplay from reading the PlaneShift guide. If they were too lazy to do that, it's normal that they'll get frowned at... But usually people kindly direct newbies the right way.
I don't think you know what elite RPers are. Elite RPers aren't people who speak better and because of that control the setting. They're just people who can express their character very well, giving a good time for everyone around (Take Hwnae as an example.)
If the GM's can propose a good moderation RP-wise, then abuses (by any type of RPer) would not be frequent.

[Mythryndel]

By your definition of RP, I adhere to that in all but guild chat.

I have heard about a craft fair of sorts in Hydlaa Sunday afternoons, but I am not able to get on at that time. This is my primary reason for strongly recommending some kind of NPC merchant system. There are lots of accounts and lots of item crafters in-game, but people are not online 24/7. I appreciate your take on prices for items. The price is related to the amount of material required to make it. This is not consistent with the few auction announcements I have seen in my time here, which is refreshing.

I am curious to know how to get in touch with your crafters in-game. Please PM me if this is not appropriate chatter on the forums, or if you can only tell me the name of a guy who knows a guy who might be able to get me in touch with these rare crafters.

[Waoknie]

I've had no chance to check on the ways other games enforce RP. I think games are easier to rank than to compare.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I'm not simply blowing off steam: check WoW's Roleplay Policy

It is true, I had no chance to check on that. It has nothing to do with confidence. What I meant is that actions used to lead to RP in PS. It's just an idea.. A policy is nothing without the aid of the system.. And it's exactly that what I'questioning: The way the system seems to be bent for leaving room for RP by limiting actions. Nothing more.

Waoknie: I don't get you that well. But I think you're saying that RP isn't fair to newbies. That's not true. Roleplay is only unfair to people that do not know it. Newbies should learn how to Roleplay from reading the PlaneShift guide...

No. I did not say that it is unfair. 'Newbie' is by definition implies someone who doesn't know or has the skills. Yes, we should all read the guides.
I tried to point that for a newbie it could be easier too to engage in RP when there is an action envolved. But there is little room for actions without explainations with the way the system is evolving. (check out the 'bubble' I mentioned before)

My comments have nothing to do with RPing quality in this game or any other. I'm not opposed to RP.. On the contrary, I'm seeking for ways to encourage it without the need of a reward: An alternative derived from the original poster's idea.