Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?

[Mohrdred]

*Moh raises her hand shyly and stands up

I have an idea to help "merge" the two (that was the original question, right?)   Perhaps certain, well chosen, people who seriously RP and are committed to improving this game in this manner could give out quests just like an NPC?  Or they could be part of an NPC quest. . .Maybe some of us should have an item, or group of items, or tria, that we can give as a reward to a quest we make up?  It wouldn't have to give a character any experience, but I know that when I first started playing this game I would have gone on a quest just to get a good dagger or two.  When entering the game, a new player would be told that certain quests could only be obtained from other players and that some quests required interaction with other players.  Like getting a piece of information or something.  As previously stated, you can't make people play the way you want them to, but perhaps we can force them to take a stab at it (no pun intended . . . okay maybe a little bit)  If this idea could be implemented along with gently guiding those new players about the ways of RPing we might have something.

My favorite technique to get someone to RP (or at least try) who is blatantly OOC is to look at them quizzically and tell them "I don't understand what you mean.  Please try saying that again". 

Gee, I hope that someone else hasn't already brought up this idea - it came to me suddenly as I was reading this thread and in my impatience to get this idea out (before I forgot it) I only skimmed the last two pages. . .

*Moh blushes, looks around and quickly takes her seat again.

[Mythryndel]

Players giving quests and such is a good idea. I don't think it is necessarily a solution to the problem, but a good idea nonetheless.

The problem here, is that the players willing to give quests are not going to be on 24/7. This is the biggest problem I see in-game with the "free market economy" so to speak also. I talk to tons of people in-game. I keep in character, but I am also forced to grind to be able to accomplish my goals. What I am noticing the longer I learn my crafts, is that nobody is interested in anything but the best... so until I get to where I can make the best, all i can do is give my crafts away to new characters I meet to help them out.

Anyways... kinda side-tracked myself there... but I think that player to player interaction is a very good thing for getting people away from ONLY mindless grinding, but I don't think that people can/should really be forced to do so by the tutorial or whatever like you suggest.

[Bamko]

a few items I must respond to...

first, as per http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=33558.msg387535#msg387535  I see your point, and the first part I like... Yes, you need to get permission to, say, pick pockets, since not implemented.. but that was not my point.  Let me paraphrase for myself... though you are always welcome to paraphrase it to incorporate your views.. but please do not paraphrase it "for me".  Minor but important point.. but I like to speak for myself, though I think I agree with a lot of your points...


There are 2 kinds of roleplayers, as I (and apparently many) see it, those who play their role IC and those too lazy to actually play the game who want to pretend they are something they are not.  I am not talking about those who RP picking pockets.. or other non-implemented skills, but those who pretend they are more skilled than they are in skills they could train in, if they were actually playing the roles they claim to cherish so much.  IRL we all know people like this... the guy who claims he is a master streetfighter or MMA star... who can not throw a punch.. The guy who claims he is the Haxxor, who can not tell the difference between C++ and pig latin.

Play IC?  Good, I try to as well (though /tells are hard for me, if you are not within sight, then hard to think you are whispering to me) 

Want to pretend you are something you are not, well, then I (Bamko) sees you (INGAME) as a poser.  so if you are playing the role of a poser, well, good job, you are doing it well.

I (Bamko) am a journeyman swordsmith.  I have the 2 perfect [Q300] sabres I crafted to prove it.  The other day I had a "master swordsmith" ask me in a tell where to buy a sword handle (a question I dont mind from new players.. even wrote an IC Ingame book on swordmaking). 

So MY VIEW is, Play IC Ingame as much as possible... some ingame as in RL are more social, and more elloquent.  BE who your character is.  But dont cry that I am OOC when I point you out as the IC Ingame poser your character is.  See, I am IC, you are the one being OOC with your cries of not being treated as you want to be as per your views on RPing..

http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=33558.msg387537#msg387537 right on, well said

RE "Perhaps certain, well chosen, people who seriously RP and are committed to improving this game in this manner could give out quests just like an NPC?"

Bamko often sends people on such quests.  Need a sabre?  Well, I need 9 iron ores, one coal lump.  Or.. and I like this one... I explain IC where the iron mine is north of hydlaa is, and tell them about a NPC near there, that I was supposed to go run an errand for... go ask them if you can help them, and report back to me with errand.. then I point them to the library.. ask them to finish quest and bring me back a blank unopened book... and then I "upgrade" their sabre form 50/50 to what I have on hand... say 180/180.. and write them a guide in metalworking or something in the book... "   Anyone can give quests.  No need to wait for the DEVS or GMS to approve it.  Just start doing it? (and when they then bring me ore, I can make them a second sabre too, and we both made a new freind... all IC) (and MOH, good stuff, good ideas, no need to blush, eh?  he he he)

[Under the moon]

Quick definition of PLer and RPer in this post. PLer is someone who enjoys leveling up fast and getting stronger. RPer is someone who enjoy acting out their character (based on mechanics and stats as much as possible). The extremes to these are Trollevelers and Elitists. Then there are Textplayers, who use only text to 'RP', and ignore all mechanics.

1 Powerlevelers = good. Can be IC, but don't have to be as long as they respect RPers.
2 Roleplayers = good. Sometimes powerlevel as well. Fine as long as they respect those that do not want to 'get into' the story.
3 Textplayers = ok as long as they keep their own little worlds to themselves.
4 Trollevelers = bad. They do not respect that RPers have as much fun as those who level, and go out of their way to insult them.
5 Elitists = bad. They try to force everyone to their version of roleplaying or drive everyone out who does not fit -their- style.

You want to bring the first two together. The first step is making things the powerlevers and the roleplayers enjoy separately, can do separately, and do not have to interact if they do not wish to. In other words, give both 'sides' a sanctuary from each other.

Second step: Make an overlap both sides can enjoy if they want to, incorporating elements from both styles of play. Give roleplayers a -good- reason to level (with options in doing it), and give levelers a role to play that is not RP heavy and still lets them be the PLer (soldier is a good example).

Step three: Ban all 4s and 5s. Leave Textplayers in their own little worlds. Mute any that come out.

[Orgonwukh]

Thanks UTM. I will use those definitions

[Tontow]

I have a Suggestion.

Add several quests that advance you one or more levels in a skill.  That would be RP/IC and get rid of some of the grinding.

[Bamko]

Under.  Nice.. very nice... Grabbing link to your post!  YOINK!

If not the official position, it should be.  IMO.

[Da_Kaos_Child]

the players mix the two to gether.

getting a group of people for particular reasons. negotiating exploring trading , sharing experiences about the world.


I'd like to get some iron , i cannot carry it all , Limitation by game mechanics.

someone else has the same problem.

Work with them , over come the challenge , using a roleplay interaction with the other player.

I see this happening alot, or at least i encourage it , because team work = efficient >

[Ausuna]

Quick definition of PLer and RPer in this post. PLer is someone who enjoys leveling up fast and getting stronger. RPer is someone who enjoy acting out their character (based on mechanics and stats as much as possible). The extremes to these are Trollevelers and Elitists. Then there are Textplayers, who use only text to 'RP', and ignore all mechanics.

1 Powerlevelers = good. Can be IC, but don't have to be as long as they respect RPers.
2 Roleplayers = good. Sometimes powerlevel as well. Fine as long as they respect those that do not want to 'get into' the story.
3 Textplayers = ok as long as they keep their own little worlds to themselves.
4 Trollevelers = bad. They do not respect that RPers have as much fun as those who level, and go out of their way to insult them.
5 Elitists = bad. They try to force everyone to their version of roleplaying or drive everyone out who does not fit -their- style.

You want to bring the first two together. The first step is making things the powerlevers and the roleplayers enjoy separately, can do separately, and do not have to interact if they do not wish to. In other words, give both 'sides' a sanctuary from each other.

Second step: Make an overlap both sides can enjoy if they want to, incorporating elements from both styles of play. Give roleplayers a -good- reason to level (with options in doing it), and give levelers a role to play that is not RP heavy and still lets them be the PLer (soldier is a good example).

Step three: Ban all 4s and 5s. Leave Textplayers in their own little worlds. Mute any that come out.

I just read this post today and I have to say I love you. *hugs*

Hey, do not run away

[Mordraugion]

WooHoo I have a new title Textplayer, please feel free to ignore disregard any input I have made over the last 4 years.

[Sangwa]

What the heck? We've got too many classes already.

Shouldn't we simply concentrate on the behaviors that do not fit this game's ambition? Currently the game accepts characters of all types: weak, strong and really, really strong. This means that a character that is a cook while also being a weaponsmaster and a powerful mage is very valid. If we don't like this, we should just give our opinion about the levelling system and hope it gets changed.
If we don't like people that godmod we should have GM's monitor that, intervening wherever any obvious abuse happens, just like they scout for OOC chat and unruly behavior.

I think this is the kind of strategy that we should look for.

[khoridor]

3 Textplayers = ok as long as they keep their own little worlds to themselves.

I prefer hearing textplayers than OOC. The background conversations in the tavern do not break the immersive aspect of the game, unlike this kind of conversation:
- Good morning, smith. I need a new blade to replace my broken one before the next tournament.
- ok. q300 long sword for 20k ?

The only real tool for RP is chatting. So the best way to damage RPing is by polluting the chat box, brackets or not.

Step three: Ban all 4s and 5s. Leave Textplayers in their own little worlds. Mute any that come out.

Sounds elitist to me.
Besides, adding more definitions, which could be continued, is out of scope of this thread.



So I go back to the subject, and agree with Sangwa. If one could PL in only a limited number of stats and skills, characters would have more flavor. Currently everybody, and specially the strong characters, look the same, dress the same, and do the same things at the same places. And they max the same.
One example: I believe the stats maxes should be related to their values at character creation, like x2.

I would actually suggest many things, but most of the game mechanics are still to be implemented and then balanced; so it's wait and see. However, if maxed characters learn the new skills when they are implemented one by one, they'll quickly master them as well, already having the needed PPs and trias in store.
I believe that the PPs earned with one skill shouldn't be used to progress in another skill, as in a "kill gladiator - learn cooking" routine.

Characterised PLed characters are easier to RP with, and acted characters may then be powerlevel ICly. Plus the motivation for new characters to become something that not everybody already is.

Is it possible to make a poll with a series of yes/no questions along these lines?

[Mythryndel]

While I support balance over equality among the races, I do not think that 2x your initial starting stats is a good idea. I think that not every character should be able to have the same max for all stats, but not the way you describe.

Implementing all sorts of measures to try to force people into not (ab)using the mechanics is not going to work long-term, and IMHO not worth the R&D manpower given other aspects of the game that need attention.

The initial intent  of this thread was to approach this from the perspective of cooperation. This is a good goal, but requires a little effort (read this as a bit less hubris) on both ends of the spectrum. Unfortunately, it appears to be devolving into the age-old argument... and since the PLers don't usually care about the forums, it turns into PLer-bashing.

[Duraza]

Heh, I just say we all level and roleplay. Makes life so much easier

I'm more towards the rp side to tell the truth (as I hate leveling, mostly just the current system) but I suppose its worth it so others don't complain that I roleplay strong characters without using the game mechanics to make them that way. I say PLers will be PLers, RPers will be RPers. No way to really change that but as long as you respect that others play the game and have fun in different ways than you then things should work out fine. There will always members in both groups and we don't have to interact with each other (though it would be nice if we could without fighting ). We should just make sure we don't go out of our way to disturb/bash what either group thinks of as fun.

As for this:

While I support balance over equality among the races, I do not think that 2x your initial starting stats is a good idea. I think that not every character should be able to have the same max for all stats, but not the way you describe.

I think this problem will eventually be solved and already planned to be solved. If you look at the PS website it mentions starter values for race stats. Then when you look at race descriptions they mention limits and strengths that each race has. This most likely means that in the future everyone will have limits depending on the race they pick. Depending on your choices in character creation your character will probably be even more so limited/strengthened so I'd have to say its all a matter of time before ideas like this actually appear ingame.

[Liadan]

While I support balance over equality among the races, I do not think that 2x your initial starting stats is a good idea. I think that not every character should be able to have the same max for all stats, but not the way you describe.

Implementing all sorts of measures to try to force people into not (ab)using the mechanics is not going to work long-term, and IMHO not worth the R&D manpower given other aspects of the game that need attention.

The initial intent  of this thread was to approach this from the perspective of cooperation. This is a good goal, but requires a little effort (read this as a bit less hubris) on both ends of the spectrum. Unfortunately, it appears to be devolving into the age-old argument... and since the PLers don't usually care about the forums, it turns into PLer-bashing.

devolving...i love that word. Everyone dislikes those who don't walk the talk, to use an overused cliche. So why is that thrown out when you come into this environment? If you say you have a certain level of magic, why don't you?

Isn't it a tad hypocritical to roleplay certain levels if you don't have them?  I'm sitting the fence on the topic because I think that there should be a median between hardcore roleplaying and hardcore powerleveling discovered. Or a balance, if you prefer. 

those pushing the attitude of let sleeping dogs lie, why? And those in favour of one side or the other, why? let's see some legitmate reasons rather than mud-slinging...the elections are taking care of that.