a sad display

[Nykolai Raskaniov]

Yes, that's what I meant. I found that Feature Request some time ago as well so I didn't enter a new one.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

well i have been out of game for a long time i decided to see what is new and dl the game again. now back when i first played this game a person could log in shout hello to all the good folk and get fine greetings from everyone and there was allways people chatting back and forth but since i have been back i log in and shout "greetins good folk o the realm" and i don't get a single hello back 

Yeah.  Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting.  It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game.

Let me paraphrase Zanzibar: "I am a Cper who wants the GAME removed from the game."

[zanzibar]

well i have been out of game for a long time i decided to see what is new and dl the game again. now back when i first played this game a person could log in shout hello to all the good folk and get fine greetings from everyone and there was allways people chatting back and forth but since i have been back i log in and shout "greetins good folk o the realm" and i don't get a single hello back 

Yeah.  Too many people do nothing but grind mining or crafting.  It's why I want to see the grind factor removed from the game.

Let me paraphrase Zanzibar: "I am a Cper who wants the GAME removed from the game."

Not only are you putting words in my mouth, but you found a very insulting way to do it.

I'm surprised you think PlaneShift is nothing but grinding, especially since you're on the settings team.

[Mythryndel]

RP is a part of the game... but there is actually a game here to be played. You could just as easily "grind" quests as you can crafting, mining, combat, etc. Believe it or not, people find the "game" fun too... not just sitting around BSing over Red Liquor at Kada's...

Now, could things be made more enjoyable or less tedious... sure... but the "grind" as you put it will always be there in one form or another.

[zanzibar]

RP is a part of the game... but there is actually a game here to be played. You could just as easily "grind" quests as you can crafting, mining, combat, etc. Believe it or not, people find the "game" fun too... not just sitting around BSing over Red Liquor at Kada's...

Now, could things be made more enjoyable or less tedious... sure... but the "grind" as you put it will always be there in one form or another.

Let's be clear though - you could go beyond taking the grind factor out of PlaneShift and remove all leveling entirely.  There would still be a game to play.

[verden]

What would constitute the "game" though? I think it is interesting that Xillix said that the way they did. I do find the game fun. Part of the reason I find it fun is because just about everyone I run into will act in character, at least in the simplest manner possible. But the game itself, even if nobody did that, is still interesting. Its not nearly as bad as most people make out, and more balanced than it used to be.

[Mythryndel]

@Zanzibar... I completely and totally disagree with you. If you remove all aspects of the game that deal with achieving something... aka leveling... you no longer have a game at all. You have a really pretty 3D chat engine.

[Hanix]

Lets face it, it must be difficult for the 'RPers' amongst us. I mean they have to watch day in and day out as players log in and play the game and enjoy themselves. They watch as the people that 'grind' enjoy the fruits of their toil by having abilities the 'RPers' dont have. And what must be worse for the 'RPers' is when they see players 'Grinding' AND 'RPing'   Surely this can not be possible.... Can it??

/set sarcasm off

*I actualy just wrote a whole speach here about the insessant whining from the people that call them selves RPers, but dont actualy play the game to RP anything more than godmodding and BS and try their hardest to con the real players of PS, but i decided to remove it as i know its wasted in these forums and would only give fire to the trolls.*
  Too late...

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

After saying that the hundreds of hours of work people have done (and inevitably will have to do to perfect the systems) should simply be removed to promote YOUR OWN PERSONAL (remember you don't speak for a radical group of people, just yourself) view of how the game should go, the fact that you can even propose that what I said was an insult is fairly laughable.

I've appreciated your efforts to try to turn away from negative commentary, but you vacillate rampantly from negative unhelpful commentary to a calmer analysis and have really proposed little to advance the game in your 6k plus posts.

I'm asking you nicely again, turn your critical eye inward and see if you can't do something more creative than critical.

[zanzibar]

@Zanzibar... I completely and totally disagree with you. If you remove all aspects of the game that deal with achieving something... aka leveling... you no longer have a game at all. You have a really pretty 3D chat engine.

There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.

Lets face it, it must be difficult for the 'RPers' amongst us. I mean they have to watch day in and day out as players log in and play the game and enjoy themselves. They watch as the people that 'grind' enjoy the fruits of their toil by having abilities the 'RPers' dont have. And what must be worse for the 'RPers' is when they see players 'Grinding' AND 'RPing'  Surely this can not be possible.... Can it??

Your tone is very confrontational Hanix.  As guild leader of the Warriors, I know you have a different perspective on things, but I think we should be respectful of all styles of play.  And even if we can't do that, we should at least be respectful of each other and allow others to have opinions that differ from our own.

Plenty of roleplayers level.  I'm one of them.

After saying that the hundreds of hours of work people have done (and inevitably will have to do to perfect the systems) should simply be removed to promote YOUR OWN PERSONAL (remember you don't speak for a radical group of people, just yourself) view of how the game should go, the fact that you can even propose that what I said was an insult is fairly laughable.

I've appreciated your efforts to try to turn away from negative commentary, but you vacillate rampantly from negative unhelpful commentary to a calmer analysis and have really proposed little to advance the game in your 6k plus posts.

I'm asking you nicely again, turn your critical eye inward and see if you can't do something more creative than critical.

Yet again, you come out swinging and accuse me of saying things I haven't said.

I haven't been negative about the leveling aspect of planeshift.  I've been positive about the settings and roleplay aspect.  I think PlaneShift is SO GOOD that you could take leveling out and it would still be a good game!  Sheesh.  It's like you're looking for reasons to attack me.  I've been incredibly positive, even as I'm being attacked by a staff member.

As far as my post count goes, I've been here a while.  And on other forums, 6k isn't a lot of posts, especially when you're active in guilds, helping new players, engaging in discussions (both fun and serious), etcetera.

[verden]

There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.

But what, exactly, are they? Maybe this thread is not the best place for an answer to that. But I am sincere in asking.

[zanzibar]

There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.

But what, exactly, are they? Maybe this thread is not the best place for an answer to that. But I am sincere in asking.

Quests, guilds, exploration, roleplay events, pvp, and so on.

Keep in mind that by removing leveling, people may actually mean making it easy to max out, or changing character generation so that levels are set upon character creation, etc etc.  My main point is that PlaneShift is more than killing rogues and waiting for them to respawn so that you can kill them again, and it's more than moving iron between the furnace and the tank over and over again.

[verden]

Quests, guilds, exploration, roleplay events, pvp, and so on.

With the exception of roleplay, these all depend on or are affected by the skill levels of the character.

The monsters at this time don't do much. But I don't think anybody has called them finished.

[Dajoji]

There are plenty of things to achieve that don't include leveling.

But what, exactly, are they? Maybe this thread is not the best place for an answer to that. But I am sincere in asking.

Quests, guilds, exploration, roleplay events, pvp, and so on.

Keep in mind that by removing leveling, people may actually mean making it easy to max out, or changing character generation so that levels are set upon character creation, etc etc.  My main point is that PlaneShift is more than killing rogues and waiting for them to respawn so that you can kill them again, and it's more than moving iron between the furnace and the tank over and over again.

That is why using terms like "grinding" without further explanation can be misleading. Specific suggestions are easier to assess.

[Mythryndel]

@zanzibar... I'm sorry, but you are looking for reasons to be insulted here. You are not being "attacked by a staff member". I can't see where Xillix is off-the-mark in regards to your general style of commenting. You make a broad statement... which tends to be either too vague to be useful, or else inflammatory... then when people start to criticize it... you either claim that you are having words put in your mouth, that you are being attacked unfairly, or you just ignore the comments that you don't feel like addressing.

Back to your statement of PS being SOO GOOD that you could remove all leveling and still have a game... how? Get rid of stats, trainers, currency, items... and what is left? Hrm... you can go talk to NPCs... and read books... but that doesn't make a game. You can sit around and chat with people IC... great... but that also isn't a game. You can make a game of it, but that is not the same thing. Removing leveling means removing levels. You cannot "max out" if there are no levels. And it is complete BS for people to simply select the level you want to play at CC. Starting levels need some variation... but there needs to be something to achieve or it is not a "game".