Author Topic: a sad display  (Read 8438 times)

verden

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 716
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2009, 12:54:25 am »
Quote
Then why don't we focus on finding a system that is better than the current one before we suggest that it be removed?

Exactly. And any other system needs to be designed to fit into the current morass of code. Its not enough to just say that there is another way. There is always another way. But is there another way that will mesh with the existing code and be obviously and fundamentally better than the system that is in place? Which is why I say, it does not exist. If it did, that would mean that someone had proposed an alternative, detailed system that worked and took all of the current code into account in that proposal.

If you want a new system, then you need to run a server,  prototype it in the code, and then test the hell out of the thing. The only thing that will ever be convincing in this argument is detailed data from a working prototype of such a system. Saying, it isn't good change it, is not enough when we are talking about the entire system underlying character progression. Think about the amount of effort and time that has gone into the current system.

The only conclusion that makes any sense here is that the current system, incompleteness aside, is the good system. There is nothing in the current system that hobbles acting unless the player themselves allows it to. If it really comes down to your imagination, then the current system is fine.

Xillix Queen of Fools

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1876
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2009, 12:55:05 am »
I am not angry and I don't think Anumesa is.

I just think you are flatly wrong.

I think you are guilty of all you've accused me of.

I think you make assertions as though they are common knowledge and assume against all evidence that everyone agrees with you.

I think you enjoy playing the victim.

I think you are a harm to my personal experience as a developer.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 12:57:16 am by Xillix Queen of Fools »

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2009, 01:01:28 am »
I am not angry.
I'm glad to hear that!  Sometimes it's easy to get the wrong impression.

I just think you are flatly wrong.

I think you are guilty of all you've accused me of.

I think you make assertions as though they are common knowledge and assume against all evidence that everyone agrees with you.

I think you enjoy playing the victim.

I think you are a harm to my personal experience as a developer.
I'll have to go through the thread again to see what I've accused you of.  I do believe that you've misunderstood what my beliefs and opinions are, so I'm not terribly surprised if you think I'm "flatly wrong" about things.  I have asserted that certain things are common knowledge, but only because I believe them to be so.  I'm more than willing to reexamine any beliefs I have which someone else thinks are in error, but it seems like the biggest challenge right now is to inform others on what my beliefs actually are since there seems to be a lot of false perceptions flying around.  As far as playing the victim goes, you'll have to assume that I'm being sincere and I'll have to assume that it wasn't your intent to cause offense or do harm.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Anumesa

  • Guest
Re: a sad display
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2009, 01:14:14 am »
I'll have to go through the thread again to see what I've accused you of.  I do believe that you've misunderstood what my beliefs and opinions are, so I'm not terribly surprised if you think I'm "flatly wrong" about things.  I have asserted that certain things are common knowledge, but only because I believe them to be so.  I'm more than willing to reexamine any beliefs I have which someone else thinks are in error, but it seems like the biggest challenge right now is to inform others on what my beliefs actually are since there seems to be a lot of false perceptions flying around.  As far as playing the victim goes, you'll have to assume that I'm being sincere and I'll have to assume that it wasn't your intent to cause offense or do harm.

Ok, just do me a favor here. Reread what you just wrote (if you feel up to a challenge then reread ALL your posts in this thread) and pick out how many times you have said "I". If that number is more then 4 then you are in complete and total fail.

Oh and
Quote
This is all just common sense to anyone who actually plays the game - why are you so angry about it?
does -this- assertion come from Zanzibar lala land as well? Because as you have stated before, if your so-called "common knowledge" is subjective to your beliefs..meaning that it is highly (and most likely completely) plausible that it, in fact, is NOT common knowledge at all...merely the result of your affinity towards being a pain-in-the-hiney (PITH).

Also, this is not me being angry. In fact I am not angry at all..Since you have stated that you are
more than willing to reexamine any beliefs...which someone else thinks are in error
I, and as far as i can tell most other posters who are "hating on you" as well, are merely trying to get you to do so :)

« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 01:21:54 am by Anumesa »

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2009, 01:23:58 am »
I'll have to go through the thread again to see what I've accused you of.  I do believe that you've misunderstood what my beliefs and opinions are, so I'm not terribly surprised if you think I'm "flatly wrong" about things.  I have asserted that certain things are common knowledge, but only because I believe them to be so.  I'm more than willing to reexamine any beliefs I have which someone else thinks are in error, but it seems like the biggest challenge right now is to inform others on what my beliefs actually are since there seems to be a lot of false perceptions flying around.  As far as playing the victim goes, you'll have to assume that I'm being sincere and I'll have to assume that it wasn't your intent to cause offense or do harm.

Ok, just do me a favor here. Reread what you just wrote (if you feel up to a challenge then reread ALL your posts in this thread) and pick out how many times you have said "I". If that number is more then 4 then you are in complete and total fail.
Xillix's comments were directed to me personally.


Oh and
Quote
This is all just common sense to anyone who actually plays the game - why are you so angry about it?
does -this- assertion come from Zanzibar lala land as well? Because as you have stated before, if your so-called "common knowledge" is subjective to your beliefs..meaning that it is highly (and most likely completely) plausible that it, in fact, is NOT common knowledge at all...merely the result of your affinity towards being a pain-in-the-hiney (PITH).

Also, this is not me being angry. In fact I am not angry at all..Since you have stated that you are
more than willing to reexamine any beliefs...which someone else thinks are in error
I am merely trying to get you to do so :)
Support your arguments then.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

verden

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 716
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2009, 01:40:30 am »
Nothing on a forum is directed to anyone personally unless they know the identity of the poster in real life. It would be more precise to say that it was directed at your comments. Because that is the only way that we know you. I am sure that many are satisfied with that arrangement. Nothing is personal up here, to take it so is an incorrect response. If one creates an identity for oneself and then uses people's responses to somehow justify a spectre of persecution... Well, that might be what Xillix was talking about in the first place.

Mythryndel

  • Testers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 605
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2009, 01:46:44 am »
Regarding my earlier assertion... we are now on the "you completely misunderstood what I was saying" phase of this zanzibar discussion...

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2009, 01:51:22 am »
Regarding my earlier assertion... we are now on the "you completely misunderstood what I was saying" phase of this zanzibar discussion...
Hopefully people now understand what I intended to say, and will be less quick to judge in the future.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

eldoth_terevan

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 512
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2009, 01:54:55 am »
Omg, nothing changes up here. Zanzi, you just ain't weird enough to pick on for very long.
I know, lets talk about that "encrusted ulbernaut" thing in, umm ... Bilbous' description from a long time ago.
Boy, was that out of setting! Hahahaha! I loved it...

Mythryndel

  • Testers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 605
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2009, 02:04:27 am »
@Zanzibar... I wish that could be true. However, just like almost every other discussion I have had with you... well... this IS just like every other discussion I have had with you... it never goes anywhere. Anyone who brings a valid argument either is "putting words in your mouth"... "misunderstanding what you said"... or is getting ignored... although I admit I did forget a response... that that is to ask for more information or tell them to prove their arguments to you. Seriously... pick a topic... re-read it... compare it to any other... they all end up the same... you are the poor victim that gets picked on and nobody understands that you really just want to offer your opinions to help this wonderful game. Yeah... whatever. It is no wonder you have so many posts... :(

Oh well... I guess  I am like most here... tired of your crap... but I am finding almost impossible to get upset/angry about things... and also playing a new game predicting what your next responses are going to be... and my batting average is pretty good... :)

BTW... this is plain and simple fact... not an attack... not blowing up at you... not even making fun of you... well... maybe a little on that last one...

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2009, 02:14:28 am »
@Zanzibar... I wish that could be true. However, just like almost every other discussion I have had with you... well... this IS just like every other discussion I have had with you... it never goes anywhere. Anyone who brings a valid argument either is "putting words in your mouth"... "misunderstanding what you said"... or is getting ignored... although I admit I did forget a response... that that is to ask for more information or tell them to prove their arguments to you. Seriously... pick a topic... re-read it... compare it to any other... they all end up the same... you are the poor victim that gets picked on and nobody understands that you really just want to offer your opinions to help this wonderful game. Yeah... whatever. It is no wonder you have so many posts... :(

Oh well... I guess  I am like most here... tired of your crap... but I am finding almost impossible to get upset/angry about things... and also playing a new game predicting what your next responses are going to be... and my batting average is pretty good... :)

BTW... this is plain and simple fact... not an attack... not blowing up at you... not even making fun of you... well... maybe a little on that last one...
I'm less interested in proving who's right and I'm more interested in simply getting along with people.  If it seems like I'm ignoring someone, then I'm simply trying to protect the peace.

With arguments, it's hard to argue anything unless someone states their position.  If someone says I'm wrong about something, that's great.  But unless they tell me why they think I'm wrong, there isn't anything for me to really respond to.  And if my reason for having an opinion is because of personal experience, there's nothing for them to really respond to either.  The best they can do is share their own personal experiences.  So it might seem like nothing gets accomplished when people always attack, never defend.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

hitancrias

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 329
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2009, 02:20:55 am »
I agree with what Zanzibar said about grinding. Removing the grinding isn't removing the game from the game. Grinding is doing dull and repetitive tasks over and over to get a more experienced character. Dull parts shouldn't be part of any game, or at least kept to a minimum. Zanzibar suggested ways to progress should primarily come from other sources like questing, teamwork, items and increasing player skills. Take it as a compliment. Clearly, the other parts of the game are good enough now to ease down on grinding.

Also, I don't think the divide between the roleplayers and the powerlevelers is so rigid as often suggested. There are plenty of people who enjoy leveling and also stay in character. Of people who primarily enjoy haning out in the tavern but don't mind to hunt a few beasties now and than.

And yes, I do think calling Zanzi a Cper (complaint player) is pretty offensive. As is using the staw man approach. Zanzi never said he is against leveling, he said he is against grinding, which is not the same. I can't believe this discussion is really happening; we just had a thread about how to argue in a mature way. A sad display indeed, to quote the topic.
Hitancrias. Herbalist. Explorer.

rakshak

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
    • How to host websites on any computer
Re: a sad display
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2009, 02:35:46 am »
I'm ignoring all the attempts at hijacking this thread, and let's try to focus on Rumblebelly's concern.

"If you want to start RPing again, try spending some time in the Hydlaa Tavern - it's usually the best place to get RPers talking".

Prolix

  • Guest
Re: a sad display
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2009, 02:52:48 am »
Omg, nothing changes up here. Zanzi, you just ain't weird enough to pick on for very long.
I know, lets talk about that "encrusted ulbernaut" thing in, umm ... Bilbous' description from a long time ago.
Boy, was that out of setting! Hahahaha! I loved it...

Hey I resemble that comment. Who ever said that being a crackpot was out of settings anyway?
Thanks for remembering me, the story itself was only out of setting once they decided what the settings were.
Now that was role play at its finest if I do say so (somewhat facetiously) myself.

Mathy Stockington

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 781
    • View Profile
Re: a sad display
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2009, 03:20:51 am »
Life is lived forwards, but understood backwards