Guns

[Kraxton]

You make a good point, Kuiper. Single-shot, muzzle-loaded rifles and pistols would be appropriate medeival weaponry--but they don\'t fit the image most PS devs want.

[Kuiper7986]

Do you know that for certain? I certainly don\'t but they want medieval type stuff and well a musket is a medieval type thing, so like hand in hand. Well then yes your right, they possibly hate the idea, guess they just have to tell us and see what they think.

[Cirque]

Originally posted by Kuiper7986
I think guns should be a in the game, but to make it flow with the PS gameline. I\'m not talking about M16A2s,
Ak-47s, or HK G36k, I\'m talking about Single Action Rifles, which requires you to reload after one bullet. I think being able to use a gun should require a special quest from \"The Gods of PS,\" in which you must do a quest to recieve a special weapon. This is how it can work.

This is what kinda of gun I mean:
http://www.iar-arms.com/images/sharpccrbc457030.jpg

How to get one:

You get one by doing a quest (a weak gun but better than not having a gun) or you can get a gun by buying one. There will be stores around the PS world, but when you try to go inside you get kicked out from the gunkeeper saying, \"Hey! The Gods didn\'t allow you in here.\" Or you can smith one, but you need a very high smithing experience to make a gun.

Costs and Prices:
A Gun should be expensive to everyone. Depending on the quality of the gun it should be priced at the quality of the gun. Ammo should also be taken into consideration. Ammo can also be smithed but will require more experience than making a gun, so it\'ll force you to by ammo, and buying large quantities will not be cheap. Also ammo should be priced depending what kind of ammo it is. There should be like ammo made of different ores from the stuff that people can go mining for or they can be regular bullets but you can add status effects by using it with different chemicals or spells. Like if your an alchemist or something you can make Poison Ammo or if you\'re a priest, you can make Holy Ammo or something.

Fighting:
This is how a gun would fight. First it depends on the weight, a heavier gun would mean slower firing time and a lighter can would mean faster firing time. Also a tempo can be set depending on how fast you can reload and aim. I think there should be a \"gun skill\" that could determine aiming time, firing time, and a reloading time. Also I think you should be able to change your ammo type during fighting, but in doing that you lose that attack phase of your turn. Guns should also be weaker than swords, cuz the blow of a sword is much deadlier than a bullet wound. Also to help that, guns should be long-ranged. Meaning he can attack from kinda far (not very far) but within allotted distances and it should have a 99% hit rate, since they\'re accurate.

ONE MORE TIME, WHEN I MEAN GUNS I\'M NOT TALKING ABOUT Machine Guns, or anything like that! I\'m talking about Old Guns that can potentially do well in the game!


Take this as an example:
Let saying I see a monster and I\'m going to that monster. I get my gun ready. He attacks me first. Then I shoot back. Then I have to reload one bullet which will take a few seconds, then I have to aim again (which will be the main tempo), then he attacks me, then I shoot back again, then I have to reload, then aim again....etc.

Your example sounds like the sword fights in, dare I tarnish this forum with its name, \"Runescape\".

It is a good idea though. Perhaps you could choose to use a gun but there are also other long range weapons available. So for instance you like guns so you choose them, yet someone else prefers darts maybe, so thats what they use. They could all have varying strengths and weaknesses. So if your wanting to follow a certain theme with your character then its consistent. For example you want your character medievil knight looking and skilled in those sort of things. Then it would look odd if you see this knight style character using a firearm.

[Kuiper7986]

ya a gun would be a ranger weapon, you can\'t use it while wearing heavy armor. To me a musket gun is just like any other weapon.

[Icefalcon]

Nope, doesn\'t appeal to me, sorry. If you want a ranged weapon, use a bow, crossbow, arbalist...something that fits with a fantasy game. Have you ever read any fantasy book that had guns in them, whatever kind, it just doesn\'t fit.

[Kuiper7986]

Fantasy: \"The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy.\" So by limiting weapons you are limiting the very definition of fantasy.

There\'s no code or rule that says a \"fantasy\" game can only have a bow, crossbow, or any weapon of that sort in a fantasy game.

No I\'ve never read a fantasy book with a gun in it, but there\'s no reason why it shouldn\'t. There\'s no doctrine that states that if its fantasy then it can\'t have a gun.

[Kuiper7986]

Thank you, I have proven my point.

[Yalzin]

I think although a musket-type gun fits in with the Medieval period, it does not go with the fantasy setting in PS. I would hate PS to turn into just another first-person shooter.

In my opinion it would totally ruin the theme of the game to include any type of guns and besides if there were guns why would anyone want a sword? I know which one i\'d choose in battle.

[Icefalcon]

Originally posted by Kuiper7986
Fantasy: \"The creative imagination; unrestrained fancy.\" So by limiting weapons you are limiting the very definition of fantasy.

There\'s no code or rule that says a \"fantasy\" game can only have a bow, crossbow, or any weapon of that sort in a fantasy game.

No I\'ve never read a fantasy book with a gun in it, but there\'s no reason why it shouldn\'t. There\'s no doctrine that states that if its fantasy then it can\'t have a gun.

I understand what you are saying completely, dont get me wrong, but I just don\'t like this idea. Maybe some game should break the whole fantasy trend (not only weapons, but races as well, elves being good, dwarves being miners etc.), but I don\'t think PS will be the game, and I am perfectly happy to have PS a traditional fantasy (genre, not the amagination) game.

[Kuiper7986]

You see but there\'s no real definition of \"traditional fantasy\" setting.

Okay so you define a fantasy setting. There\'s no set rules saying that a fantasy can\'t have mukset guns.
So how would a musket gun not fit in a fantasy setting?

Also what gives the assumption that just because you have a musket gun then it\'s going to become a first person shooter?

Oh no, but its okay to have cannons, but we can\'t have a musket gun.

Cannon: Powder, Ball, fuse, shoot
Musket: Powder, Ball, fuse, shoot

Just about the samething, so why is it okay to have a cannon but not a musket gun? They\'re practically have the same fundamental principles, anyways back to musket guns...

Like I said, the word fantasy doesn\'t imply that it has to only be swords, bows, and staffs. You can\'t find a reliable source that says fantasy doesn\'t have mukset guns. Either way muskets or not I still am going to play this game, but muskets wouldn\'t hurt the game.

[Icefalcon]

Originally posted by Kuiper7986
You see but there\'s no real definition of \"traditional fantasy\" setting.

I beg to differ with you, there is a fantasy genre, the main components in a nutshell...swords, magic, monsters.

The Fantasy Genre revolves around magic, this doesn\'t mean that everyone is a mage, casting spells, there are warriors, blacksmiths etc. But the whole Fantasy setting revolves around magic.

Now, having said that, think about science. Magic and Science are simmilar, but very different. With Science, everything is proved , with Magic, everything is unexplainable. Which group does guns fit into? When you think about guns, do you think about Magic? or Science (technology)? Science of course, guns are a part of our modern scientific world. Everything in our world is based on science. Fantasy games are based on magic.

There are two basic types of MMORPGs, Fantasy, and Sci-Fi. Fantasy is based on magic, Sci-Fi is based on Science. If we were to add guns in Planeshift (whatever kind), in my mind in seems like a hybrid between a Fantasy and a Sci-Fi game. That is why guns do not belong in a Fantasy game.

Im really hope all this makes sense and why you understand why I am against guns. Not because it is not logical, or historical, but because it just does not fit in a Fantasy Game.

P.S. Every time I refer to \"Fantasy\", I am refering to the GENRE, not the DEFINITION.

[zinder]

For me it seems you put everything you understand in science and magic is what you cant explain. You are only opposed to guns cause you understand how it works. If you wouldnt know, you would see them as magic, like a wand.

IMHO muskets arent more science than a crossbow. But they are magic. You go to your alchemist, who gives you a packet of magical powder and explicit orders how to use it. More often than not it works. So they would be magical artifacts in PS, similar to a magic bow with magic arrows.

[Icefalcon]

Right, but in our world today, we have guns. Our world is a scientific world. Guns have replaced bows and crossbows. In a fantasy game, we want to have a whole new world without any of our modern things. I know people use bows today, but not as a weapon (besides hunting, but thats a sport).

[Kuiper7986]

Fine even in a fantasy \"genre\" does it say no musket guns?

Where does it say that the fantasy genre is based on magic?  Were just accustomed to hearing fantasy based on that stuff because that\'s how were exposed to it.

Planeshift IS sci-fi because it isn\'t real.

Science Fiction:
A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.

Sci-Fi and Planeshit go hand in hand. You can\'t have Planeshift without Science Fiction or nothing would exist in the \"fantasy\" genre. All scifi games are fantasy and all fantasy games are sci-fi.

So guns wouldn\'t affect sci-fi or fantasy? There\'s nothing that says \"fantasy\" genre couldn\'t have musket guns, so there\'s nothing wrong with having musket guns.

[Icefalcon]

No im taliking about Sci-Fi as a genre too, ya know all those fururistic games like Neocron and Planetside...your impossible