Time for Chain Mail

[Gilrond]

I'd say players can be trainers, while NPC can stay trainers too. It will provide competition for crazy prices.

[Aramara Meibi]

here's my point, i could start a new character today from zero, do every quest, max all stats and skills, loot every possible item, get every glyph, every weapon, do everything and not once engage a single other player. yeah, it would take 10 years of realtime and it would be extremely boring, but hey, my life is overflowing with adventure, romance, and intrigue, so yeah, i want to escape to a world filled with dull, repetitive, monotonous tasks. so why make this game multiplayer? why make it online? the system doesn't call for engagement between players.

the questions you should really be asking are: Why does your character want to go out and slaughter thousands of creatures? Why does your character want to become a master armorer? Why does your character want to become a master smith or own the highest quality weapons? Why does your character want to buy stuff? Why does your character want to hunt or cook?

answer those questions and then you'll have the reasons to do those things.

[Aramara Meibi]

I'd say players can be trainers, while NPC can stay trainers too. It will provide competition for crazy prices.

heck, why would i charge for a lesson? what if, instead I'd say, prove to me your worth in combat before i take you on as a student, then i'll give you the training if i think you deserve it.

[Gilrond]

Exactly. Some could teach for free, but selecting students on certain criteria and so on. It'll provide a more interesting system. Current settings present trainers as greedy gold hoarders.

[tman]

the questions you should really be asking are: Why does your character want to go out and slaughter thousands of creatures? Why does your character want to become a master armorer? Why does your character want to become a master smith or own the highest quality weapons? Why does your character want to buy stuff? Why does your character want to hunt or cook?

answer those questions and then you'll have the reasons to do those things.

Well sure, you can play your Who's Line is it Anyway game where "everything's made up and the points don't matter."  But for people who want to play the game part and not only use the chat and "/me" command, things like skills and money do matter.  Just like they would to the characters.

The only reason anyone is a smith, in-game or real life, is because the product is worth something.  If you take away the reward the character gets for some action, you take away the character's incentive for doing it as well as the players.

[novacadian]

If you take out the NPCs, this game turns into a 3d chat room.

For RP purposes it would be my preference to RP the training with another PC. With all the moving about of trainers these days one could simply allow PC to PC training in a skill if the npc which normally trains it is not at its home patrol point. So it would be a coming and going to the ability; perhaps explained with 'You didn't understand the lesson' system messages when npc present.

When not present then allow teaching PC to PC. One could simply have npc movement regulated to control abuse while tinkering and tweaking. 

- Nova

[weltall]

here's my point, i could start a new character today from zero, do every quest, max all stats and skills, loot every possible item, get every glyph, every weapon, do everything and not once engage a single other player. yeah, it would take 10 years of realtime and it would be extremely boring, but hey, my life is overflowing with adventure, romance, and intrigue, so yeah, i want to escape to a world filled with dull, repetitive, monotonous tasks. so why make this game multiplayer? why make it online? the system doesn't call for engagement between players.

perfect something playable when no one is around. What is the problem if there is the opportunity to play the game when everyone is away? People complain of "npc not being around when they have time to play" and then want to make the game totally, really, unplayable when the players are not around? It's ok to give more options to interaction it's not ok to deny playability of the game because people aren't so lucky to be living in a region in the US time zones.

[bilbous]

Here is the thing Aramara, you do those things because it is the cultural imperative of the setting that you do those things. It is all those people know. You want to do something else, well go wander in the Stone Labyrinths and we will see you when you come back. You want to be a poet? there are books though you do not need them. You want to be a musician? there are instruments. There is more slated to come but what exactly are the npc's preventing you from doing? If people prefer going off to engage with the mechanics instead of you then maybe you haven't offered them anything they are interested in.

Personally I do not like typing very much, which may be hard to believe as I do so much of it. It is one thing to type here when I can choose to not post something I've written, or to type a bunch of drivel in gossip where I can be myself it is something completely different to try to partake in role play when you know you are not up to much inspiration and despite the fact that most of the others are very forgiving.

[Pakarro]

.... What is the problem if there is the opportunity to play the game when everyone is away? People complain of "npc not being around when they have time to play" and then want to make the game totally, really, unplayable when the players are not around? ...

Let me fully support that. And, if you do not happen to have unlimited time to play, it is very hard to play  using only player-player interaction. My partners, e.g., would be pretty sore to have to wait for me coming back one or two or more weeks later...

Yours Pakarro

PS. You can meet my master Pakerl (in the Family) in-game ...

[Ceraline]

First of all to the subject in hand. I haven’t been able to try chainmail yet but I think it has to be questioned whether someone who gains sufficient armour training through making helmets or chainmail will be better placed to make leather torso armour or pants than a highly skilled leather maker? Indeed are leather pants actually more difficult than boots or gloves, which were much rarer commodities in medieval times?

Regarding player training or questing I earned through rp the position of inspector on a player based quest system, which was based on roleplaying capabilities. One big problem is favouritism. It is easy to foresee guilds favouring fellow guild members, friends appeasing friends or merely playing up to the inspectors particular rp ideals. It was difficult enough with a much smaller player base than here (we scrubbed and restarted 3 times in one year, before giving in). I imagine it would be almost impossible to police here, particularly with the varying styles of rp, and the inevitable arguments and attempts to dictate the system from those whose obsession is that their style of rp is the only type of valid rp.

[Herihi]

I think you have all missed the point in a discussion about preventing abuse.  Of course you'll have rich players abusing the system.  Welcome to the real world where it happens all the time.  If you have enough resources you can control prices and make a killing.  The point isn't to prevent players form making profit and abusing the system.  The point is to make it more realistic.  There is no realism right now with certain weapons being cheaper then the metal they are made from.  And there is no realism in npcs buying items without even once adding in factors of prices being higher because of the effort someone put in to make that item.  One reason why certain items are more expensive is because you are paying for the hours of work and the quality the item is made from.  Quality shouldn't be the same for every item.  300q stock for example shouldn't be the same price as a 300q weapons made from it.  The weapon took more time and effort to make plus more skill.  The stock is nice but last I checked you can't kill or hunt with it (unless you chuck it at a creature and it crushes them ) but a sword can be invaluable. 

A supply and demand economy will fix that fairly quickly.  Will there be players who are wealthy enough to mess around with the system and dump tons of inventory into the game to lower prices or horde it to jack prices up? Of course there will be.  The issue isn't preventing abuse it's making the game more realistic.  As of now the economy isn't close to real since npc prices never change, players sit around and make the same stupid things over and over so they can sell for the exact price to the npcs, and the more difficult work gets ignored since it won't make you any more of a proft.  If I make thousands of bronze stock and sell them to the same npc they should for one refuse to buy at some point (no point in having 1000s of stock when you won't ever be able to work them all), and once the reach a certain point they should lower prices since they don't want anymore, that is if they will buy at all.  Sitting around mining all day long to sell to player merchants who turn around and sell endless amounts of 300q stock is silly because no where in real life would that ever happen.

[Herihi]

As for the whole discussion about RP Aramara, I find it silly that hardcore RPers criticize players for working on their characters.  Last I checked part of RP would be actually treating your character like they are real which of course last I checked means they have a job and do work for a living.  So yeah some will go out and hunt all day.  That's their job.  Some will work on metal and smithing. That would be their job.  You can't spend all day long talking or making up intricate plots.  I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with RP, I love RP and my character is actually involved in some really long extended ones.  But she also has a job to do so she can make a living. 

I also find the simple grinders interesting as well (and yes I get caught doing that quite a bit).  Last I checked this is supposed to be a game based on RP.  I understand wanting to level up your character and get stronger but at some point it might be a good idea to think about the character and what they would want.  I don't think anyone can stand in front of a forge all day long for 5 days straight without eating, going to the bathroom, sleeping, or just taking a break so they don't kill themselves. 

The game needs to have a happy medium between the two in my opinion.  My character trains fighting so he/she can become a famous fighter, or he/she trains weapons skills so he/she can be an even more productive hunter, or he/she trains crafting skills to make money selling things so he/she can make a living.  But the character also is a person who doesn't just level things just  because.  Maybe he/she hates magic, or isn't really into weapons much, or maybe just wants to be a cook or barkeep.  The game levelling system isn't just to grind, it's to develop your character as well.  If you use it correctly it makes the character development even more interesting and fun.  RP and grinding in other words don't have to be exclusive, they can work great together as well.

[Rigwyn]

The point isn't to prevent players form making profit and abusing the system.

You want a dynamic economy that is controlled by a few rich players? How about letting the Outlaws be the few rich players? Do that, and people will have to ditch the tri and invent their own system of currency.

[Herihi]

Haha you'll have to compete with Realito and his merry band. Plus I hear Stillwater has a good amount saved up too.

[Rigwyn]

Did you miss the part about people ditching the tria?

That means people stop using it altogether - hence its worth falls though the floor.. because now, instead of using money and all the game features that require money, those players that have not stormed off  will find a way to play without it.

In the end those few rich players have a commodity that is only in use by NPCs.. and is worthless otherwise. Chances are there would be a money wipe to fix the economy.