Firearms in PS

[Knightspark9]

In addition to possible, it's also a matter of role-play and mechanics, and as you said, improving the game better. People are able to magic and melee their way through so many things now it's not even funny. Sure a character could be an archer, but a red-way mage could probably just burn the bow. If firearms were added, then those without magical ability could at least be able to stand some chance.

A lot of monsters have some form of magical immunity in the mechanics as well, so it could be beneficial to add firearms; increased damage, but not as fast. Truthfully, it could be very beneficial to both role-play and the mechanics.

[Vankseal Serozan]

@ tman: In order to be appealing to a broad range of players that have varying interests developers usually include a variety of things in a game but some games are narrow and try to only appeal a smaller group. Magic, is normally for the more intellectual. Melee for the people that love their grit and sometimes a mechanic type element in the game for the mad scientist or people with a more explosive personality. However, planeshift is not a normal game and I don't think it shares the normal goals of most games. I don't know enough about the settings to give any more reasons than have already been given. I was really hoping to get a comment or two from a settings dev to shed some light on the mater. As far as improving ranged goes I agree, I did notice while looking at dates that the longbow was used against the Scots in the late 12th century putting the longbow well within the time PS fits in. Also the longbow could penetrate a knight's heavy armor and was very effective from 100-200 (not certain) yards, taking this into account the bows in PS now really need improving.     

[Chessire]

I think the appearance of firearms wouldn't hurt too much and could even be interesting, as long as they don't appear in the form of repeaters, bazookas and similar modern atrocities. A piece of machinery of dwarven construction that requires specific knowledge and time to load and operate, providing a powerful blast of fire, this sounds much better. It would be just another weapon to choose, not a replacement for bow or magic.
Still, let us have a completed combat system first

[Zalya]

Fun fact, guns where invented before full plate armor. 

Also, I only scanned the other posts because I'm lazy, but I would have to agree with magic advancing more than technology. The way I see things is that Ylikum is very close (perhaps even past) our modern socity in terms of the advancement of civilization and luxuries, but the defining factor is that instead of following a path of science, it followed the path of magic. As far as the setting goes, guns are technologically possible, but just not necessary. If you have more advanced alternatives then there is no need to devlup the other things.

[Knightspark9]

@Zalya: This is where we look at the other races; dwarves in particular. There are engineers in-game, (the winch is an example of engineering and magic.) It has taken a bit of both, if we look at it to the full extent. In fact, firearms offer interesting role-play. For those who want something with more distance then a bow, and more damage, then yes, it would be practical.

I'll state once more that Yliakum has biomes that can support materials for gunpowder.

[Vilthis Trayus]

Essentially, necessity is the mother of invention in the history of the arms race. Logically speaking Yliakum is no exception, though ends justify means; does magic supersedes the need of using gunpowder based weaponry? Or alternatively magic operate as a substitute to it akin to a propellant like azure way telekinetic discharged projectile? I strongly believe it is simply up to one's imagination and ingenuity of a character in the game. I do not presume to speak for the settings but if someone seeks to role play a fire arm, as long as the justification is sound I personally have no qualms about limiting the imagination of a player.

[Rigwyn]

You could say a firearm is like a bow in that it allows you to attack from a range with no magical training. Its added strengths are perhaps greater distance and more damage with its main drawbacks being the noise, smoke and loading time. ( The noise and smoke would be a disadvantage as they would give your location away.. that is until someone invents a silencer  *rolls eyes* )

You could say that ICly Planeshift has the technology to make a gun, however, has anyone in the PS world actually come up with the idea of making a gun? Or are we just taking real world knowledge and dragging it into the game? We could argue that its possible to make a crude penicillin with what we have in the game, but knowing what penicillin is used for, knowing what germs are, and so on is all OOC knowledge. Such knowledge took time and research to stumble upon it.

Personally, I would be hesitant to add new technologies to the game - at least, those that would advance the game technology-wise. Making wires from copper to conduct electricity, making motors, crude coil based am radio transmitters, and such could be done with whats available but it just seems like a bad idea to me as it nudges the game out of the setting.

For me personally, I think guns would fall into this category, but that's just my opinion.

[Candy]

I agree with Rigwyn; the whole genre kind of changes if those advances are made. Given, there's the fact that the Winch is a little out of place (there's even a screen in it, iirc - haven't taken another close look at that area in a while though), but personally I like to think that how the Winch works is a big Octarchal secret and the engineers and such are under some kind of Non-Disclosure Agreement.

If you want people using both swords and firearms, there are plenty of games in which this is done...

[Vilthis Trayus]

I am a Warhammer 40k player myself. It is a table top miniature turn based strategy game, not a RPG. But I get your point. Though there is potential that 'technological' innovation not reined to the settings may result in an absurd outcome, i believe hard caps towards character ingenuity is even a more absurd outcome where central to the theme of this game is role playing - and imagination is central to that.

[carua]

IMo the only place firearms fit in is at the BD we'd be pushing it too far to have functional combat weapons for PC's given that PS has had an edge of realism in almsot everything, the only thing good enough to justify the resources and power of a cannon would be an Ulbernaut or whatever monsters lurk beyond the doors.You have to bear in mind that early firearms lost to archers because the accuracy of an arrow and rate of fire in the beginning is too great compared to a musket.
As players does anyone want to use a weapon with  30-40% chance of actually hitting the target at all.So if the numbers fall well you can 3 shot anything if they dont roll well you'll miss him every time while he eats you and your gun.
Given that the azure way has a projectile ability i'm surprised we even got as far as using bows.The "necessity is the mother of all invention" rule is what drives most inventions guns were developed because we had no hard counter to stone walls or armoured cavalry.Wheres when a red mage can fry a plate wearing greatsword wielding Giant before he gets close enough we don't particularly need more ranged combat.Bows,crossbows and thrown weapons fit in for fluff reasons on not having magical ability or perhaps cultural ones.
But if a group tried to invade hydlaa with cannons a few mages later they'd discover it's not going to work that way.This also reminds me of the fact that Yliakum is all one nation with one government,we dont have great war machines or siege weapons like catapualts because we don't invade anything or get invaded,all we have to do is keep the piece and keep the monsters away there's no problem that can happen in the land that 20 knights and 10 mages couldn't wipe out of existence,short of an entire level rebelling against the octarchy

[Vankseal Serozan]

                                                     (Sorry for the rant, it was inappropriate)

Ok, I understand what you are all saying about the magic making the development of gunpowder pretty pointless to the races of yliakum. However, the magic currently in game to me seems just about as good as a gun that misses 30-40% of the time. Why? Well, instead of giving a magic spell a range of damage it can do, like a weapon, and maybe treating it like physical damage when certain spells are used (fe, flying stones) or have it totally miss/blocked by the target, monsters have been assigned resistances to certain magic ways. I have no problem with adding resistances, however when mobs resist 80%+ of 3 different ways with magic costing as much as it does and you do not get half as good resistance as a monster does when you are maxed and he is only supposed to be adept I think there is something wrong. I have mastered redway, it wasn't easy but I got a good reward for training it. After resistances were assigned to monsters I tried to go hunting, just to find out that the only monster that I could kill with redway that gave me enough progression points were consumers (darkway is just as bad.). Personally I think it was just a cheap, easy, crud nerf as the resistances on most mobs do not make sense at all (consumers are supposed to spend a lot of time underground but are resistant to cw?). If not firearms, PLEASE give me some better bows and arrows to use. Sorry if this is off topic. 

[LigH]

It is always again and again impressive how those who know little about the history of PlaneShift "know best" the future of PlaneShift...

This game is open-source and publicly developed only to a certain degree. Final decisions are made by one person.

If (in the case that) Talad decided a decade ago that PS won't have firearms (so it does not belong to the "Settings" of the game), it is quite improbable that it will be implemented in the next decade. Unfortunately, many threads have to wait a long time until he replies a certain "Yes" or "No".

[Vankseal Serozan]

I neither said I new best nor did I hear anyone else say they new best. I have tried to make it very clear that most everything I have said is only my opinion and as such it is going to be wrong and bias in some areas, also I said I have no idea what is already planned and never made any claim to know much about the history of PS. Sorry if I came across in a know all end all way.

[LigH]

Well, sorry for the offense, I was a bit hard. I didn't want to harm you, just state that some people put a lot of efforts into details before knowing if the whole topic could be relevant at all in an expectable future. There is a wish. Fine. Let's wait if it is granted at all before trying to implement it already...

[Vankseal Serozan]

I see what you mean with the details, I just wanted people to see I had looked into it a bit so I didn't have a repeat of the 2005 post.