Missing Skill-Boosting Quests

[Uadjet]

I talked to Venalan yesterday and discovered that there are some better ways to do things. Suspected as much. 

First, the whole repeatable/unrepeatable thing and the delay in restarting repeatable quests is handled "elsewhere", so we don't need to use timers at all. That's nice, although I spent more time than I care to admit trying to figure that out.   

Second, we can leave out the reminder step for each task by using the "Menu:" line of the completion step as the reminder. As in: "I have the two daggers and three small battle axes that you asked for." That line already has the "Player gives" instead of just a "P:" so if the player clicks on it without the items they'll just get an error message. I don't know that it needs to be done this way, but it'll save steps. A standard crafting repeatable would be 3 steps per task the way I was doing it, but only two if done this way.

Third, the quests use variables to block the player from getting more than one assignment at a time if they return to the quest giver during another time range. I was using a stupid number of "Require no completion of QuestName step #", with one of those per possible task. Using a variable is much easier, as you can just check to see if the variable has been set at all. So set the variable to the task or step number when you get a task, and start that same block with a "Require no variable..." requirement. Then, when you complete the task, use the "Unsetvariable" command to erase it.

Let's see if I can write that up. Here's the Intro step where the quest is assigned:

Code: [Select]

Require completion of Learning Blade Making.
P: Give me a quest. Blades making.
Menu: Veja, do you need help with something?
Veja Pontor: [Vega looks up from her work. Her ears are slanted back and there's some soot in her fur, making her look somewhat harried.] What? Oh, $playername. Yes, I absolutely could use your help! [Veja gestures around herself at the stacks of metal on the ground.] On top of my duties to the Arena I've now got additional orders from the Eagle Fortress, and I could use a hand getting it all done. Do you have time to lend me a paw?
P:nohelp. P: yeshelp.
Menu: No, I just don't have time right now. Menu: Sure, I've got some time.
Veja Pontor: Fine. Don't bother me then unless you have business to do with me, then.
Veja Pontor: [Veja sighs with relief, her ears relaxing somewhat.] Glad to hear it. Can't lose business from either.
Unsetvariable Quest_####_Blades_Making_Started.
Assign Quest
That's not too hard. Checks to make sure the player can actually make basic blades, which is the only such check I'll use in this quest. Used [] to denote activity. Used $playername so the NPC will actually use the player name. Not entirely sure I should, as there's no requirement that the player has met her before.

Then I used Unsetvariable like I mentioned before to completely clear the variable set by each task. That line should be unnecessary as I'm going to include it on every step that completes a task and therefore the quest, right? Well, it's always possible that something goes wrong or the player discards the quest but the variable isn't deleted. In those cases, it would mess things up. So it goes into the Intro step.

Now each task requires a few steps. I used three in each of my examples above, so I'll post the first task in my Blades Making quest here. I'll post the way I initially did it first:

Code: [Select]

... NoRepeat

#Step 2
Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 5. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 8. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 11. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 14. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 17. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 20. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 23. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 26. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 29. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 32. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 35.
Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 38. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 41. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 44. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 47. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 50. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 53. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 56. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 59. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 62. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 65. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 68. Require no completion of Stocking the Armory step 71.
Require skill Blades Making 0-14.
Require time of day 0-3 | time of day 12-15.
P: Task1. What do you need. About order. About blades.
Menu: So what do you need me to make?
Veja Pontor: Well, you're new to this so I'll keep it simple. Make me a single shortsword and that will be good for now. If you have any trouble, check your book. All of the instructions are in there.
Questnote Veja has asked you to make her a Shortsword.
Complete Stocking the Armory step 2

...

#Step 3
Require completion of Stocking the Armory step 2.
Require no possessed item Shortsword.
P: What you need. Reminder.
Menu: Sorry, but what did you need again?
Veja Pontor: [Throws up her arms in frustration.] A shortsword! One single shortsword! How did you forget that?!
Complete Stocking the Armory step 3

... NoRepeat

#Step 4
Require completion of Stocking the Armory step 2.
Require possessed item Shortsword.
Player gives Veja Pontor 1 Shortsword.
Menu: Here's the Shortsword you asked for.
Veja Pontor: [Veja takes the Shortsword and gives it a quick inspection, including tapping the side of the blade against the anvil.] Yeah, this will do. Here, take some circles for your efforts. I may need more help again in the future, so check back in occasionally. Oh, and let me show you a trick that'll help you in the future. [Veja spends a few minutes showing you some of the tricks of the trade.]
Run script give_quest_exp <<1>>.
Run script give_quest_money <<1>>.
Run script give_quest_skill <<'Blades Making',1>>.
Run script give_quest_timeout <<'Stocking_the_Armory_Lockout',480>>.
Complete Stocking the Armory step 4. Complete Stocking the Armory.
Okay, so there are a few errors there. That big block of "Require no completion of..." at the top of step 2? Total waste of time to copy/paste that in, and I've been adding them to each task assignment step. Variables are much easier. Also, the timer stuff is unneeded as the repeatable and delay stuff is done in the database, so it can go.

Tidy that up a bit and edit out what isn't needed and we get this:

Code: [Select]

... NoRepeat

#Step 2
Require skill Blades Making 0-14. Require time of day 0-3 | time of day 12-15.
P: Task1. What do you need. About order. About blades.
Menu: So what do you need me to make?
Veja Pontor: Well, you're new to this so I'll keep it simple. Make me a single shortsword and that will be good for now. If you have any trouble, check your book. All of the instructions are in there.
Questnote Veja has asked you to make her a Shortsword.
setvariable Quest_####_Blades_Making_Started 2.
Complete Stocking the Armory step 2

...

#Step 3
Require completion of Stocking the Armory step 2.
Require no possessed item Shortsword.
P: What you need. Reminder.
Menu: Sorry, but what did you need again?
Veja Pontor: [Throws up her arms in frustration.] A shortsword! One single shortsword! How did you forget that?!
Complete Stocking the Armory step 3

... NoRepeat

#Step 4
Require completion of Stocking the Armory step 2.
Require possessed item Shortsword.
Player gives Veja Pontor 1 Shortsword.
Menu: Here's the Shortsword you asked for.
Veja Pontor: [Veja takes the Shortsword and gives it a quick inspection, including tapping the side of the blade against the anvil.] Yeah, this will do. Here, take some circles for your efforts. I may need more help again in the future, so check back in occasionally. Oh, and let me show you a trick that'll help you in the future. [Veja spends a few minutes showing you some of the tricks of the trade.]
Run script give_quest_exp <<1>>.
Run script give_quest_money <<1>>.
Run script give_quest_skill <<'Blades Making',1>>.
Unsetvariable Quest_####_Blades_Making_Started.
Complete Stocking the Armory step 4. Complete Stocking the Armory.
Got rid of the timer and that big block of nonsense in step 2, and things are looking a bit better. Note that the variable is set to 2, which is just the step # where that task is assigned. I could set it to 1 as it's the first task. Heck, the value is never checked again so I could set it to anything. Still, to keep it orderly it's best to set values either by step number or task number.

It's possible to tidy that up even more. Venalan pointed out that the reminder steps aren't really necessary for these repeatable crafting quests if you move that reminder to the task completion step. If you remove the line that prevents the task completion step from appearing if the player doesn't have the items it will show up, but if the player clicks on it without the items they'll get an error message. Turn the Menu: line into the reminder and you get this:

Code: [Select]

... NoRepeat

#Step 2
Require skill Blades Making 0-14. Require time of day 0-3 | time of day 12-15.
P: Task1. What do you need. About order. About blades.
Menu: So what do you need me to make?
Veja Pontor: Well, you're new to this so I'll keep it simple. Make me a single shortsword and that will be good for now. If you have any trouble, check your book. All of the instructions are in there.
Questnote Veja has asked you to make her a Shortsword.
setvariable Quest_####_Blades_Making_Started 2.
Complete Stocking the Armory step 2

... NoRepeat

#Step 3
Require completion of Stocking the Armory step 2.
Player gives Veja Pontor 1 Shortsword.
Menu: Here's the Shortsword you asked for.
Veja Pontor: [Veja takes the Shortsword and gives it a quick inspection, including tapping the side of the blade against the anvil.] Yeah, this will do. Here, take some circles for your efforts. I may need more help again in the future, so check back in occasionally. Oh, and let me show you a trick that'll help you in the future. [Veja spends a few minutes showing you some of the tricks of the trade.]
Run script give_quest_exp <<1>>.
Run script give_quest_money <<1>>.
Run script give_quest_skill <<'Blades Making',1>>.
Unsetvariable Quest_####_Blades_Making_Started.
Complete Stocking the Armory step 3. Complete Stocking the Armory.
Only two steps per task this way, which is very helpful as we are (I think) limited to 99 steps per quest. That's no more than 32 tasks if you have 3 steps per task, or 44 if you have two steps per task. I'll still have to split Shield Making into two quests though. 

Speaking of that, I think I found a good way to do it. When splitting a quest into 2 like that the most obvious way to do it is by skill level. Say, 0-99 levels is the first quest, and 100+ is the second quest. That's easy to do if the quests are from the same NPC, but I want different NPCs in this case and I want the player to only be able to get the quest from the second NPC if they've done the first quest at least once. The Quest1 NPC giving the player a recommendation for the Quest2 NPC.

So, how do I do that? I think I worked it out. By using " | " (meaning OR) we can set it up so that the first quest will trigger if your skill is under 100 AND if it's over 100 but you haven't done Quest 1 yet. Like this:

Code: [Select]

Require skill Shield Making 0-99 | Require no completion of Quest1
P: Shield Making. Quest1.
Menu: Need any help?
NPC: Yes. Have some time?
P:nohelp. P: yeshelp.
Menu: No, I just don't have time right now. Menu: Sure, I've got some time.
NPC: Fine. Don't bother me then.
NPC: Good.
Unsetvariable Quest_####_Quest1_started.
Assign Quest
Quest2 is easy then. Just require both Quest1 to be complete and a skill of 100 or higher.

Code: [Select]

Require completion of Quest1. Require no skill Shield Making 0-99
P: Shield Making. Quest2.
Menu: Need any help?
NPC: Yes. Have some time?
P:nohelp. P: yeshelp.
Menu: No, I just don't have time right now. Menu: Sure, I've got some time.
NPC: Fine. Don't bother me then.
NPC: Good.
Unsetvariable Quest_####_Quest2_started.
Assign Quest
The problem is that if a player discards Quest1 they'll no longer be able to do quest 2 until they complete Quest1 again. Might be able to work around that like this:

Code: [Select]

Require completion of Quest1 | completion of Quest2
I'll have to ask.

Oh, and you may note (if you are for some reason actually reading all of this) that when doing the second quest instead of requiring a skill of 100-200 I required the skill NOT be 0-99. The reason is that if a player has a skill close to 200 and uses items or buffs that give them a boost to over 200 the first way won't work. They won't fit into the 0-99 or 100-200 ranges so they won't be able to do the quest even though their actual skill is under 200. Using the "Require no skill" method instead leaves the upper range infinite, so even with a skill of 5000 I can still do the quests as a GM.

Off to restart the Blades Making quest! Think I'll leave in the reminder steps, as I rather like having an exasperated Veja yell at the player. 

[Uadjet]

The Blades Making quest is done!  Just need to have it checked to make sure I haven't done anything remarkably stupid, but I think it'll work. Tried to check each line of code using Find Next so that I only needed to keep the syntax for one command in mind at a time, so I'm relatively optimistic.

Started work on Shield Making, then realized that I should probably ask about referral thing I mentioned in my last post before doing all the work. I'll start on a different quest until I have a chance to ask about that.

Edit: Going to post the intro step I'm working on here on the off chance a Dev pops in to see what's going on.

Code: [Select]

Require completion of Learning Shield Making.
P: Give me a quest. Shield Making.
Menu: NPC, is there anything I can help you with?
NPCfullname: Ah, $playername. It's a nice $time for getting some work done, isn't it? If you have the time, I've got some shields that need to be made. You'll have to provide your own raw materials, but I'll pay you for the job. You interested?
P:nohelp. P: yeshelp. P: GohelpNPC2
Menu: Not right now. Menu: Yes, I can help you with that. Menu: Yes, I can help you with that.
NPCfullname: [NPC shrugs.] Nevermind, then. I'll talk to you later.
Require no skill Shield Making 0-99.
NPCfullname: Actually, you might be of better use elsewhere. Got a letter from an administrator at the Bronze Doors Fortress, and they're in need of shields. Go talk to NPCfullname2 if you're interested in helping. Don't forget to bring your supplies, though. The Fortresses aren't known for having well-supplied merchants.
Require skill Shield Making 0-99.
NPCfullname: Good! I've got orders from all over the place and I could really use the help.
Unsetvariable Quest_####_Shield_Making_Started.
Assign Quest.
Now, if I've got that right the player should ask for work and then get two of the three possible responses: Say no and wander away; Say yes and get a task if their skill is under 100; Say yes but get sent to another NPC if their skill if 100 or higher.

I'd like to set the second quest to require the first as a kind of recommendation, but the fact that the first quest is discardable makes that problematic. Like the Way quest lines all requiring a certain quest to begin. If a player discards that first quest or restarts it and doesn't finish it the specific Way quest lines won't start. Think I mentioned that earlier. I considered a few ways of trying to make that work, like having the first quest complete itself when the player gets the 'go to the other person' message, or having the second quest requiring either the first quest or itself. Not sure if either would work properly though. Another thing to ask! 

[Venalan]

I can try and keep an eye on this topic to answer any questions you have.

I have some comments, for starters all steps in a quest need the same locks or not all options will be visible. So they will need to be split into different steps.

It's better not to have stacked menus and answers in one step, as this can cause problems with progression. I think all cases of that have been removed, especially at the start of quests when giving items over.

It is possible to randomize the quest options by creating a server script which randomly assigns a variable number which determines what the player is asked to do. This would have been my preferred options when starting the skill quests but it was not implemented. We could, it's not hard to do.

Repeatable quests do cause problems with progression. But with skill quests only one quest should be active at a time, meaning only the hardest options available to the player are possible to do. If you have two quests one for skill 0-100 and one 101-200. Then the moment they move from skill level 100 to 101 the first quest is no longer possible to start and they can only do the second. Without this players could be asked to do very simple things and gain very high levels, its a way to try and always make sure effort scales with the level given to the player. A current example in game is the fishing quests.

If, however, you wanted multiple quests to allow multiple ways for people to train a skill. Then you can just extend the time periods allowing the quest to be repeatable.

1 quest = X hours between repeats
2 quests = 2X hours between repeats.... etc

[Uadjet]

Got a second quest "done"! 

Actually finished that a few days ago, but I've pretty much been cooking since then so I haven't done much else. I do have a question for those with experience with quest writing though.

Okay, I'm trying to split one of the repeatable quests in two, so that the player gets one from 0-99 and the other from 100+. There's already a quest that does that, but there are a few things I'd like to do differently that, I must admit: overcomplicate things. Well, overcomplicate things to a greater degree than I normally overcomplicate things. 

The issue is that I'd like the quests to come from different people. I came up with that idea back when I thought I was limited to 32 tasks due to the reminder step, but I've since to to like it. That alone is easy enough, but there are a couple complications:

1) I'd like the player to have to complete the first quest at least once, so that they could be recommended to the person who gives the second quest. That means there needs to be at least one task that is available to anyone no matter how high their skill, and that ideally it would only trigger once and then the quest is unavailable.

2) I'd like (but am willing to change if it's a bad idea) for the second quest only to be available if the first quest has been completed at least once. That would be easy, except that the first quest is repeatable and therefore discardable. Can't just use that as a requirement then.

So, I've had a few ideas. I don't want to use a variable that doesn't get removed later, as that's specifically warned against. This is the best I've come up with, I think:

Code: [Select]

... NoRepeat

#Step 96
Require no skill ThisSkill 0-99. Require no completion of QuestName2. Require no assignment of QuestName2.
P.Referral.
Menu: Insert generic 'give me work' quest opener.
NPCFullname: Go to this other person instead.
Questnote Why do these not require colons when everything else does? Seriously, it's really bugging me.
Complete QuestName1 step 96.

...

#Step 97
Require completion of QuestName step 96. Require no possessed 200-300 item Doodad.
P: Oops!
Menu: Here you go.
NPCFullname: That's terrible. Try again.
Complete QuestName step 97.

... NoRepeat

#Step 98
Require completion of QuestName step 96. Require possessed 200-300 item Doodad.
P: Wheee!
Menu: How's this?
NPCFullname: That looks good. Take it to NPCFullname2 along with this note.
Questnote Take Doodad to NPCFullname2.
Complete QuestName step 98.

#Step 99
Require completion of QuestName step 98. Require possessed 200-300 item Doodad.
Player give NPCFullname2 Doodad.
Menu: NPCFullname asked me to give this to you.
NPCFullname2: Takes the item, does a spiel, ends quest, opens up quest2.
Give rewards.
Complete QuestName step 99. Complete QuestName.
And then the second quest would start with something like:

Code: [Select]

#Step 1
Require no SkillName 0-99. Require completion of QuestName | completion of QuestName2.
Etc.
Does that make any sense? I have no idea what will happen with that set of quest requirements in the second quest will do. I think it will allow the quest to start if either quest1 or quest2 have been completed. The first time the player goes to the second NPC would be to complete the last task of the first quest, and the second quest should pop up immediately.

One problem is that a player could (for some reason) discard both Quest1 and Quest2. That would block Quest2 from starting. The first quest would then be able to start that last task again, which would allow the player to get the second quest again, but it's not elegant.

Thoughts?

[Migg]

I'd think if the player discards both Quest1 and Quest2, then they should be required to do Quest1 again, at least once, to get Quest2 again. Of course that could be abused to continue getting the easy Quest1, and gaining skill levels the easy way. I don't know if this is possible, but could you have a trigger for Quest1 "require skillX 0-100 | no completion Quest1", but if skillX is above 100 formulate Quest1 so that it does not grant a skill level, but just directs the player to find NPC for Quest2 and completes without granting any rewards?

[Uadjet]

Yeah, I was thinking of handing the item in for a basic tria and xp reward (no skill level), but I could change it to a simple check to see if the player has the item. The second quest giver would close the first quest, and the second should be immediately available. That way the first quest is on the delay timer, but the player can still do the second quest. They could still discard the second quest to get the referral task of the first quest again, but since there's no reward it would be pointless. I like that.

[Venalan]

Hey, to answer might, quest 1 can't use 'no completion of quest 1' within quest 1 as once you have started it, the quest can never be completed as it is active so that check is always true. And you can't use it to start the quest as you could complete the quest once at level 70 then train to 100 and then can't get quest 1 again and will never get the pointer.

What you need to do is assign a variable that blocks quest1 from starting and activates quest 2, and is removed within quest 2. You can then set up the quest 1 and 2 locks to take this complecation into account.

I think this would work but it's not been tried. The reason I suggest to not use variables all over the place is just to try and keep the database as clean as possible.

Let me do some checks and I'll post a series of locks for quest 2 if it will work.

[Venalan]

What I was thinking won't work.

But I have another idea which will use the active step variables of quest 2 as a way to lock out quest1. So this will work. Once the quests are ready we can load test and release them.

[Uadjet]

I haven't updated this thread in a bit, so I'll give the readers a little update.

So far we've got one new quest live and available for players to do. There's a second quest on the test server that appears to work as intended, so I just need someone more competent to give it a look before it goes live. I've got a third quest completed, and I'm just need it loaded onto the test server before I can test it out. Fourth quest has been started, and I have it all planned out so it shouldn't take too long. Just need to come up with dozens of ways to say "Give me x" and "Thanks for bringing me x", really.

Let's see. We've got a couple music instrument quests being worked on. Repair armors/weapons quests too. Oh, and I'm going to do the simpler Blacksmith tasks that don't require new art and crafting books, so that won't take as long as I thought.

All in all, I think we're getting it done! 

[Uadjet]

Another little update here: There are currently four new repeatable quests live on the production server. There's a fifth that I'm currently testing on the test server, and unless something goes quite badly wrong it may be live tomorrow. Now, two of these quests (one of the live ones and the one I'm testing) are for the same skill, just different skill ranges. You do the first at least once, and when your skill is high enough you get sent to do the second. Which isn't live yet. Confusing enough? 

But yeah, 4 new quests active and another should be ready soon. 

[Stalfos]

Thanks for these Uadjet, they were much needed.

Can you give us some hints as to where they are though?

Found the first one in the Arena, and another in Amdeneir - swear I have checked everyone although it can be easy to miss some people that move around and hide.

Telling us which cities they are in wouldn't be too much of a spoiler I think (pretty sure I got everyone between the cities too)

[Venalan]

As there are so few people searching these days. I don't mind making life a little easier.

Amdeneir x2, arena, oja (once quest is activated later today).

Thomas.

[Stalfos]

Aha, found them thank you

[Uadjet]

Yeah, that one NPC was a little hard to find. I spend a lot of time hovering in the area so I could see how long it would take for someone to find that quest. 

[Venalan]

We have just released two new skill based quests for Jewelry Making and Metallurgy.

Enjoy.