New Dryken Plane - thoughts and discussion

[gonger]

Hello,

We now have a new version of the much discussed Dryken Plane. The structure is much simplified, so that it now seems impossible to get lost. Someone who gets lost there now will never make the way from Hydlaa to Ojaveda!

A few points still seem worth mentioning / discussing because we do not get a second chance for a good first impression:

1) It could be made a bit more clear what the player is expected to do. Maybe add one more popup with an explanation?

2) Why are not always real objects used, but only graphics? This can look very bad.


3) If you pass this rock on the right side, the scene will not be triggered.


4) This mini-scene seemed particularly difficult to trigger. Maybe the trigger space is too small?


5) These mini-scenes I triggered in the sequence given by the numbers. Can this be more streamlined, or did I do something wrong there?


6) I would like to repeat an idea I had before, but which went largely unnoticed / uncommented: Instead of only having this introductory Dryken Plane, which otherwise is unrelated to the game, use different versions with increasing complexity at different points of the general storyline. Thus it becomes more of a feature instead of a one-time unrelated thing. And all players who get past the quest Menita's Puzzle should also be able to handle the original version of the Dryken Plane.

7) Where does the name Dryken Plane come from? Nobody I talked to seems to know...

That's it for now. Please do comment and discuss. It is in the starting area / tutorial that we lose or keep new players!

Thank you for reading,

Gonger

[mohonin]

Regarding your 7th point...
Why the name Dryken plane... i think i got some idea why thou its just a guess. I Read it somewhere, don't know where. Maybe in the character creation screen when the lore of coming to Yliakum from Home world there was a description about passing through an illusion. This illusion is the Dryken plane.
I asked in google "dryken plane meaning" and the response i got is "Did you mean: draken plane meaning" and AI Overview "The term "dryken plane" is likely a misspelling of "drunken plane", referring to a human interest story from 2015 about an engineering student who designed an aircraft while drunk". So the feeling of intoxication, drunken hallucination and flying through an illusion may best describe Dryken Plane.
This also answers the question of why the name PlaneShift? it is cuz the plane of the homeland where one was walking is now changed to plane of Yliakum passing though the illusionary plane of Dryken Plane. So this Shift of Plane is PlaneShift.
All these are just guesses, don't take it all as true.


Regarding your 6th point...
My idea to this problem of first time player getting negative view of the game is, the new player will get a choice in the start that weather they want the introduction to be in one of these mode -- 'Easy', 'Medium' or 'Difficult'. In Difficult mode, it will be the same as it is now. In Medium mode, it will bypass the drykane plane and make the character spawn in the labyrinth caves. And in the Easy mode, it will bypass the dryken plane, labyrinth caves and spawn directly infront of the metallurgy or the food lady npc (i forgot which is the 1st npc) in the quest learning in the welcome area.

[Daevaorn]

The term "dryken plane" is likely a misspelling of "drunken plane", referring to a human interest story from 2015 about an engineering student who designed an aircraft while drunk". So the feeling of intoxication, drunken hallucination and flying through an illusion may best describe Dryken Plane.

Sorry Mohonin, but how would an AI chat bot know, if no one in PS knows? This is simply slop, an AI hallucination. You know those AI bots will always give you an answer even if they haven't got the slightest clue, right? It ever so surely has nothing to do with drunken pilots or engineers.

As for your idea, Gonger, about having the Dryken Plane return in the form of a quest at a later point, I like it very much It is something that you can only savour after having found your way into the PS lore. Plus it would so well suit the "mind exploration" side of the Azure Way to be sent back there. 

[GreyWinda]

Hello everyone!


Well, I wanted to post this in discord and that too following the last Dev meeting or QnA (11th Jan), and on this particular topic. I also wanted to do this,- especially so now – given we are due for an upcoming steam release.

I am here, however so as make it a bit more presentable than it is usually possible in discord (TLDR and all). To keep it simple, I would simply like to add a few words towards my first impressions, on this topic, - as I have returned to PS, after a long hiatus.

Part I:

First of all, I’d like to mention that I do like the thrust of the suggestions from both Gonger and Daevaorn here, - “we do not get a second chance for a good first impression” and that “’the Dryken Plane return in the form of a quest at a later point,”, respectively. [I have only heard about Mentia’s puzzle, so maybe something akin to that, as Daevaorn possibly hinted of or say once you are either adept in all/some ways of magic or master in one, or even without such prerequisite but as a choice but at a later date- at one’s leisure, could be much meaningful.]

Yet, given such a change or transformation may not be easily implementable (may bring in more known/ unknown issues to address), that is as in case the Dryken Plane introduction remains, so as aforementioned I would like to add a few suggestions:


1> Let the scenes that trigger NOT override and trigger the next scene (say, if a player is accidentally running) till the scene is played in full?
[This part is fixed as tested a couple of days back: overlap in loop, or cut while another scene is already playing. In other words, let the scenes DO NOT LOOP or play together (both audio and text) over one another. It is/ could be very jarring even to a new player.]


Also, if a player runs accidentally to return to the same scene trigger, - the audio accompanying text starts quite immediately from the beginning, - and that sometimes causes an echo/ overlap: maybe this could be looked into, too, though this only happens the first time after the scene triggers (i.e. the window for such a trigger is small).

An alternative approach could be to “immobilize” the player (like a cut-scene) and let the scene play over with both the audio and text in sync. Maybe even do it in the intended order, and not the ad hoc ‘proximity trigger’.


2> In the second ‘island’ there is an audio without any scene (afaik, it used to trigger in the empty room besides the dwarf with four bunk-beds), “After a long day exploring … Stop snoring!”, -maybe this could be looked into, like made into another scene (in the empty building next).
 
3> Lastly, maybe give players a “small note”, after successfully completing the full scene of an island, (say like the Dermorian poem called "Spreading Roots" that you get from Aerayau Strongwill). It could even show the “intended order” of the events that just transpired [something akin to what Gonger has tried with the above screenshots].

Also, if possible, maybe introduce this “note” with some extra lore (or link to, say, https://www.planeshift.it/Settings) which a player can read later, if so desired … as well as keeping the doorway open to return here someday, down the line.



Part II:


This brings to my last remark which to be honest is rather subjective, that is as far as first impressions go the plane was a bit gloomy (like the death realm gloomy) to my taste. Herein I partially agree with Mohonin’s suggestion that maybe, maybe - “the new player will get a choice in the start”, whether to bypass this or not, for the time being.

But again speaking honestly these could be minor issues and I am hopeful that the place will get better as time passes. Still, given it may not be feasible, I would like to add my last suggestion for consideration, and especially so before the upcoming steam release.


The idea is from last Dev meeting (Jan 11^th) as mentioned before.

It is a request to add or highlight of the fact, -
 

• be it on the Steam page, game description, or
• be in in the Character creation or the Dryken plane intro, or
• be in once you have made it to the Hydlaa Plaza,

that,
1) that PS is strongly RP-oriented, and more important
2) that PS is FULLY Free to Play (FFP), [Gonger’s idea from discord], or
add anything but of a similar nature.


Maybe this could be achieved with a popup in-game, that you need to click to get on with.  Say like, "The game is RP- heavy and bug-laden but is a work in progress and where yours patience maybe tested but if you choose to maybe you can help too to make a better game (could link http://hydlaaplaza.com/PlaneShift/flyspray/ here, as such)", etc.


I am asking to add these kinds of highlight, since in a recent stream Talad had mentioned that ‘our’ game is an anomaly, … an anomaly in the Matrix.

It is as such to not to preach to the choir (those who will read and make through the plane to the plaza alright), but those who may not even give the depth or the labour of passion, of the game even a chance. It is for them, maybe / kindly consider some such (passive/ interactive) addition?

Ofc, one may say 'good riddance to 'em all but well, who knows what if they had stuck a bit more and they too then had 'become one of us', all because we had stretched - at least, tried, - a bit more? 


To precis, the part where a player if chooses, could help the game with bug hunting to donation, imho, could really be added/ highlighted (as an USP) to the game and especially so with its FFP aspect.


In 2023, even Massively-op get some (or most or all?) of it right, and so maybe we can do it again!
https://massivelyop.com/2023/01/03/the-game-archaeologist-planeshift-the-poster-child-of-open-source-mmos


Once again, irrespective of ‘che sara, sara’, I wish all the very best for the upcoming steam release and thank you for your time!
-GW/ FN.

[Goes to hide under the wall, for the wall above!]

[GreyWinda]

Hello again!
I.

In the light of the recent stream preliminary review, I would like to add a few words and on topic, that is I too was ‘stuck’ in the Dryken plane after I had returned on my “fresh-start” character. It was #4 from the OP, - ‘This mini-scene seemed particularly difficult to trigger.” Yes, I was a bit embarrassed to admit that. I am guessing it is fixed now. Yet I raised the topic to say, I had then used discord search and unfortunately not the help channel to get some hints/ clues/ help. Had I not used either (or not known), I do not know, if one of the reasons for investing in my new character (now my main) had stayed the way it did/ doing now.

Again my suggestion is to highlight either or both of these (help channel and as such discord) to new players, in steam page or upon entering the game world. It may not only help a new player, but maybe even ‘connect’ them to the rest of the community.


II.
I would also like to add that I used to avoid RP-ing back in the day, -not only because of the English language as a barrier, or my temperament back then ... but the idea not to hamper the natural flow of others who excel in it, by just being there as a dummy. I still try to do it the least ‘disturbing’ ways with respect to others (even when I’m quite unsuccessful in my eyes), and yet in-spite of my own ‘preconceptions’ and/or lack of suave in it, I appreciate it a lot, - be it meeting a stranger on the road or the weekly ‘events’.


In fact, I look forward to the weekly events … and not for the stuffs/ rewards off, of it, but the story, intrigues, … and for the rest of us (almost all)! And again I humbly suggest to add some link or mention of it somewhere, - be it this: https://www.planeshift.it/calendar/ or maybe even this: https://www.reddit.com/r/planeshiftrpg/.

Speaking of links, given we have no so-called “road maps”, maybe there could be a mention of the current stream themes and/or if possible, an organization of the say past YouTube steams a tad better.

Say, like ‘Theme: Fishing overhaul with mini-game’; “Theme: planting flowers and harvest”, “Theme: Building of the Dwarven City”… and so on (maybe for a few days/ year there be a secret Theme: Talad in game, from Events, to QnA to One-claw head-smashing!)! I mention these simply because, even if I had not ‘stuck’ with the game, I would be awe-stuck with all the efforts and passion that has gone into all the streams as a testimony to the dedication of the Dev!

III.
Lastly, all these perhaps assume that the sever may handle the population growth without issues. Well, maybe that will be a situation to be ‘fixed’ when it would arise. After all, I do think Talad acknowledged it over discord following an inquiry from Velora.

As an analogy, the so-called Drake equation (a misnomer), tries to estimates the probability or the likelihood of ‘intelligent’ ‘civilizations’ out there, based on some priors or factors … and in a similar way, out of all the players that may play PSU, to those that may then pass through the Dryken Plane (without them dying in frustrations), to those that makes it to the Plaza (without further issues), to those that then gets on with it (and figures the ‘fun’ out of it), to those that remains (hook, line and sinker: all in), … to lastly those that make it ‘meaningful’ in whatsoever way(s) -exploring game mechanics, to RP to bug hunting (or all) or maybe even joins the team, - this last set I think is rather very slim in percentage. Isn’t this 'last' set we all are mostly looking for, rather than say the last unfortunate case of ‘Menro’, who tried and left? 

To rephrase, maybe it is like the Parable of the Sower,- that what will be will be, yet isn’t it also true that in no way the parable says that in our case we ought not to do more for the newcomer (the seed) but rather the better that we can, with a few simple and/ or necessary changes?


Hoping for the better, -including a better steam release, - I leave the discussions to the wizened ones among you all.

Thank you for your time, once more.

-GW/ FN.
 
 
 

[Talad]

1) It could be made a bit more clear what the player is expected to do. Maybe add one more popup with an explanation?

The entity is telling you what to do in an rp-way. A popup with "search the spots" seems unecessary to me.

2) Why are not always real objects used, but only graphics? This can look very bad.
Collision is done server side, so we cannot have colliding objects if we want each player to discover their own set of pieces. If I add collision players will collide with invisible objects of other players, so it's not possible. The only solution will be to instance this level for each player, not making it multiplayer anymore.

3) If you pass this rock on the right side, the scene will not be triggered.
that has been fixed already last release

4) This mini-scene seemed particularly difficult to trigger. Maybe the trigger space is too small?
it has been increased in size and moved more toward the walkable area already in the last release

5) These mini-scenes I triggered in the sequence given by the numbers. Can this be more streamlined, or did I do something wrong there?
I simplified the prerequisites already in the last release, now only the 3 elements where the fire is are triggering in a sequence, as otherwise those make little sense.

6) different versions with increasing complexity at different points of the general storyline of the same Dryken plane.
Maybe in the future.

7) Where does the name Dryken Plane come from? Nobody I talked to seems to know...
the Dryken are the higher gods of our universe, something you know little about, but are the ones explaining to Laanx and Talad what they should do. Talad and Laanx are minor gods in the universe scale.

[Seytra]

After much struggling and setbacks due to not meeting system requirements and resolution dependencies, I was finally able to experience this addition. Immediately my question was: so, players cannot be native to Yliakum at all? Every single player character now comes through a portal? That also means that the species who get changed upon the traversal (Ylian mages losing their native magic, Klyros being severely weakened, etc.) will have this as a starting point? If so, however, this would be a traumatic experience that cannot be relayed through bits of lore that one may never even read. Voduls avatar would need to tell them, at least, while it's at it, anyway.

Not to mention that chatting with Vodul AND Xiosia would elevate every PC to at least "prophet", IDK how the local priests should react to this. They could dismiss the first few as liars and deranged, but after the next hundreds they'd be forced to reconsider, since the experiences will be extremely consistent. Unless I've not discovered that bit of lore yet, as I've yet to redo all quests; the previous posts seem to hint that this indeed is an overarching narrative.

On the technical side: I also had my share of running around in circles to get the scenes to trigger, especially on the first island, and that was after having read about these issues. Maybe there could just be sorts of glowing, translucent clouds or something hovering above the triggers? Locking the player in place might not be good since they might be oriented wrong and thus not see the scene (then again, what really matters is the audio, plus the scene can be re-triggered, so it's no real issue).

[Damola]

After much struggling and setbacks due to not meeting system requirements and resolution dependencies, I was finally able to experience this addition. Immediately my question was: so, players cannot be native to Yliakum at all? Every single player character now comes through a portal? That also means that the species who get changed upon the traversal (Ylian mages losing their native magic, Klyros being severely weakened, etc.) will have this as a starting point? If so, however, this would be a traumatic experience that cannot be relayed through bits of lore that one may never even read. Voduls avatar would need to tell them, at least, while it's at it, anyway.

This has been and still is one of my major lore-wise concerns.

I decided to decide myself whether a char I created or will create has been coming through a portal or has been born in Yliakum. Lore-wise both is possible, cause according to a lot of in game books there have been generations of people living on Yliakum already and people came in through portals already generations ago. We even had quite a few GM events with exactly that lore as background. In my point of view it is even more likely to be born on Yliakum than to come through a portal these times, see below for reasoning.

Damola has been born on the lower plane of Yliakum were many Nolthrir live. Her parents still live there and that's it. In fact she has mentioned that some times in GM events as well. Nothing of that will change due to Dryken Plane addition.

There is a culture in Yliakum already. And it should be the players decision whether to build a new char upon that culture. This combined culture of people from different races for generations, be it from a race like the Nolthrir who originally fled their home world or a race like the Kran who have been created on Yliakum by Talad, makes the medieval world we love to RP in. Additionally given there have been cataclysmic catastrophic events in home worlds generations ago it is unexplainable to me that still a huge lot of people would be coming through the portals. Unless those events have been spanning hundreds of cycles, but in my point of view a cataclysm does not last that long. It is sudden, massive and most people would have to flee in a short period of time. The people coming through the portals would all be severely traumatized from these cataclysmic events. Especially in case one would argue a cataclysm has lasted this long and developed slowly over time.

[Seytra]

After considering this a bit more, it seems like there are some ways to make it work without breaking lore (except the transformation issue, which I have no solution for):
The DP would give new players a common base, a starting point from which to RP if they don't have any (clear) idea of the lore and their character. IOW, they're mostly clueless and that's brought IC, instead of a lore dump. The DP shows past events that may or may not help with RP, but  can be tied together when discovering more lore.

The timeline aspect is interesting but the DP itself may hold the solution: the "otherworldly threat" that pulled the PC out of the portal lane, combined with Voduls intervention, may add completely arbitrary delays in the travel time, with the PC held in stasis during the transition. So it may be that everyone went into the portal at about the same time, but some arrived instantly (without visiting the DP) while others got delayed a couple of centuries. Would work for me, except that would mean that either portals themselves don't have uniform travel times or the "otherworldly threat" would have been lurking since the beginning, snatching only some. From the portals ingame, it seems transition is instant, but that's only inter-Yliakum, and maybe intergalactic travel isn't.

Problem: Kran and Lemurs would never go to the DP (Lemurs might, for Laanx has messed with them quite a bit, but would have noticed random delays, but maybe didn't care if a few were lost in transit.).

That people come from the portals more or less regularly seems to be canon though since dedicating an entire outpost to their guidance would be more akin to SETI otherwise. Except there is no reflection of this in the ingame lore I've encountered yet, but things may start to unfold at later stages, possibly after all the original questlines.